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Thu, 12 Nov 2015 11:41:24 -0800 References: <083d17b7.00000b88.0000002e@cygnos> <8E84A14FB84B8141B0E4713BAFF5B84E1DE78EA5@Exchange.sierracorporation.com> <5644B944.3000508@linx.net> <5644BBD7.4070007@channelisles.net> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13B143) From: Robin Gross Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:41:21 -0300 To: Greg Shatan X-Authenticated: robin@ipjustice.org X-Spamfilter-host: darwin.junkemailfilter.com - http://www.junkemailfilter.com X-Key-ID: =?utf-8?q?YWNjb3VudGFiaWxpdHktY3Jvc3MtY29tbXVuaXR5QGljYW5uLm9yZyB?= =?utf-8?q?yb2JpbkBpcGp1c3RpY2Uub3JnIDIwMTUtMTEtMTIgMTE6NDE6MjQgMVp3eGtLLTAw?= =?utf-8?q?MDVvNC1DOQ=3D=3D?= X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.0 (pechora4.lax.icann.org [192.0.33.74]); Thu, 12 Nov 2015 19:41:46 +0000 (UTC) CC: CCWG Accountability , "Lisse Eberhard" Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Status of summary document X-BeenThere: accountability-cross-community@icann.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing List for the ICANN Accountability & Governance Cross Community Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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boundary="Apple-Mail-67585CD2-843E-4F01-89A0-B10780A78888" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-67585CD2-843E-4F01-89A0-B10780A78888 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed to 40 days. This imposed rush will not serve us well and will provid= e ample opportunity to criticize the outcome of our report for being insuffi= ciently accountable to the broader community. Robin > On Nov 12, 2015, at 3:23 PM, Greg Shatan wrote: >=20 > +1 for 40 days. Let's not fool around. >=20 >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote= : >> No, they don't, in fact. >>=20 >> It's intentional. >>=20 >> el >> -- >> Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini >>=20 >> > On 12 Nov 2015, at 18:18, Nigel Roberts wrote:= >> > >> > Indeed. Agree 100%. >> > >> > As one Government type put it to me in Dublin, off the record ... >> > >> > "they SERIOUSLY expect that any substantive work is done in the public s= ector over the Christmas period????" >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> On 11/12/2015 04:07 PM, Malcolm Hutty wrote: >> >> I agree with Phil's reasoning as to why any extension is required. >> >> >> >> However, given that the public comment period would span the holiday >> >> season, I would suggest that public comment not close until Friday 8th= >> >> January. >> >> >> >> This will materially relieve any criticism that we have made it >> >> unreasonably difficult for comments to be assembled by choosing dates >> >> that co-incide with the holiday season, without causing any significan= t >> >> additional delay. >> >> >> >> Malcolm. >> >> >> >>> On 12/11/2015 15:32, Phil Corwin wrote: >> >>> On one hand I am relieved to see this as I was planning to post an em= ail >> >>> today urging the Co-Chairs to either postpone issuance of the Executi= ve >> >>> Summary until there was actually a completed final Proposal to >> >>> summarize, or to relabel it so that it would be clear that it was not= a >> >>> document reflecting final resolutions of key issues on which formal >> >>> comments could be based. You have taken the second course and chosen t= o >> >>> label it as =E2=80=9CFormal Update on our progress in and after the D= ublin meeting=E2=80=9D. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On the other hand, this decision now makes clear that the length of t= he >> >>> public comment period is inadequate. In the CCWG=E2=80=99s October 22= ^nd >> >>> Statement >> >>> >> >>> this appears: >> >>> >> >>> The current timeline proposes posting a high-level overview of >> >>> recommendations and a summary of changes from the 2nd Draft Proposal f= or >> >>> a 35-day public comment on 15 November 2015. Alongside the 35-day pub= lic >> >>> comment, the CCWG-Accountability will submit these resources to the >> >>> Chartering Organizations for initial feedback. The CCWG-Accountabilit= y >> >>> plans to issue a full detailed report, including annexes and in-depth= >> >>> documentation, mid-way into the public comment period for roughly 20 >> >>> days of consultation. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> A Formal Update cannot legitimately be the basis of either public >> >>> comment or informed feedback from the Chartering organizations. Thus i= t >> >>> is clear that there is really only a 21-day public comment period und= er >> >>> the current timetable, starting with the November 30 release of the 3= ^rd >> >>> draft Proposal, if the current target of December 21 is adhered to. T= his >> >>> is inadequate for a matter of this importance and complexity, and >> >>> considering the major differences between the Member and Designator m= odels.. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> *Therefore I again urge the CCWG to extend the public comment period >> >>> deadline to at least December 30 to permit a 30-day comment period, >> >>> which should be the minimum requirement in this case.* >> >>> >> >>> * * >> >>> >> >>> Lastly, I do not think that the issuance of a Formal Update obviates t= he >> >>> need for an Executive Summary to accompany the 3^rd draft proposal. S= uch >> >>> a Summary could be extremely useful in assisting the community in >> >>> understanding the document, particularly by explaining how the key >> >>> remaining issues were resolved. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thank you for consideration of my views. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> *Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal* >> >>> >> >>> *Virtualaw LLC* >> >>> >> >>> *1155 F Street, NW* >> >>> >> >>> *Suite 1050* >> >>> >> >>> *Washington, DC 20004* >> >>> >> >>> *202-559-8597/Direct* >> >>> >> >>> *202-559-8750/Fax* >> >>> >> >>> *202-255-6172/cell*** >> >>> >> >>> * * >> >>> >> >>> *Twitter: @VlawDC* >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> */"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey/* >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> *From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org >> >>> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf O= f >> >>> *Mathieu Weill >> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 8:22 AM >> >>> *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org >> >>> *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] Status of summary document >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> The activity on the list has been very intense lately. As co-chairs w= e >> >>> would like to warmly thank all commenters on the recent documents. Th= e >> >>> feedbacks were extremely helpful, whether on substance or format, and= >> >>> our support team is working hard to take your feedback in account for= >> >>> the updated version. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> You will remember that a lot of concerns were raised that what the CC= WG >> >>> is working on is difficult to understand for those who are not follow= ing >> >>> the groups intense work. In response to that, we have discussed and >> >>> agreed we would publish a document explaining in plain language what w= e >> >>> are doing. We have factored this into the agreed plan. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> At the time, we had expected to having reached consensus on all >> >>> remaining questions. As this is not the case today, we suggest flaggi= ng >> >>> this accordingly and move forward with the publication of the documen= t, >> >>> which we would call a *Formal Update on our progress in and after the= >> >>> Dublin meeting*, rather than an executive summary. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Many of you have correctly stated that the document we shared with yo= u >> >>> is not an executive summary due to its length. It is rather a short >> >>> version of our report without offering information on the rationale f= or >> >>> decisions and the genesis of our recommendation. This level of detail= >> >>> will be found in our report. We have, however, added a 2 page abstrac= t >> >>> in addition to incorporating a plethora of your suggestions to make t= his >> >>> document accurate, more accessible and shorter. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> To be clear: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> The document that we are planning to issue on Nov 15 is designed to >> >>> update the community on the progress we have made during and after IC= ANN >> >>> 54. Its goal is to raise awareness of where we are, what our proposal= s >> >>> are, so that outreach can start and consideration of our final report= >> >>> (announced for Nov 30th) can take place in a shorter time frame. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> While the content of the document would reflect the positions of our >> >>> group, closing outstanding issues is not a requirement before issuing= >> >>> this formal update. Outstanding issues will be flagged as such. What i= s >> >>> needed is a high level summary, as well as some level of detail >> >>> regarding the topics we made progress on in Dublin : decision making,= >> >>> sole designator model, budget, individual director removal, and human= >> >>> rights. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Our public comment period will then focus on soliciting feedback on >> >>> these changes in order to avoid the duplication of efforts for >> >>> commenters on areas of our report that already enjoyed broad support.= >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> With the full report, we will offer the opportunity to publish minori= ty >> >>> statements. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> We do hope that you find these clarifications and suggestions helpful= . >> >>> We will circulate the next version of the Update within the next 12 >> >>> hours, and the discussion of the document will be on the agenda of ou= r >> >>> call on Friday 13 November, at 6.00 UTC. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Many thanks again to all of you for your continued commitment. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Thomas, Leon and Mathieu >> >>> >> >>> Co-chairs >> >>> >> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------= --- >> >>> >> >>> No virus found in this message. >> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >>> Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4450/10889 - Release Date: 10/= 25/15 >> >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list >> >>> Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org >> >>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list >> > Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org >> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community >> _______________________________________________ >> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list >> Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list > Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community --Apple-Mail-67585CD2-843E-4F01-89A0-B10780A78888 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Agreed to 40 days.  This impos= ed rush will not serve us well and will provide ample opportunity to critic= ize the outcome of our report for being insufficiently accountable to the b= roader community.

Robin

On Nov 12, 2= 015, at 3:23 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:

+1 for 40 days.  Let's not fool around.
=

On Thu, Nov= 12, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:
No, they don't, in fact.

It's intentional.

el
--
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini

> On 12 Nov 2015, at 18:18, Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net> wrote:
>
> Indeed. Agree 100%.
>
> As one Government type put it to me in Dublin, off the record ...
>
> "they SERIOUSLY expect that any substantive work is done in the p= ublic sector over the Christmas period????"
>
>
>
>
>> On 11/12/2015 04:07 PM, Malcolm Hutty wrote:
>> I agree with Phil's reasoning as to why any extension is required.=
>>
>> However, given that the public comment period would span the holid= ay
>> season, I would suggest that public comment not close until Friday= 8th
>> January.
>>
>> This will materially relieve any criticism that we have made it >> unreasonably difficult for comments to be assembled by choosing da= tes
>> that co-incide with the holiday season, without causing any signif= icant
>> additional delay.
>>
>> Malcolm.
>>
>>> On 12/11/2015 15:32, Phil Corwin wrote:
>>> On one hand I am relieved to see this as I was planning to pos= t an email
>>> today urging the Co-Chairs to either postpone issuance of the = Executive
>>> Summary until there was actually a completed final Proposal to=
>>> summarize, or to relabel it so that it would be clear that it = was not a
>>> document reflecting final resolutions of key issues on which f= ormal
>>> comments could be based. You have taken the second course and = chosen to
>>> label it as =E2=80=9CFormal Update on our progress in and afte= r the Dublin meeting=E2=80=9D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, this decision now makes clear that the leng= th of the
>>> public comment period is inadequate. In the CCWG=E2=80=99s Oct= ober 22^nd
>>>  Statement
>>> <https://www.icann.org/news/blog/cro= ss-community-working-group-on-enhancing-icann-accountability-icann54-co-cha= irs-statement>
>>> this appears:
>>>
>>> The current timeline proposes posting a high-level overview of=
>>> recommendations and a summary of changes from the 2nd Draft Pr= oposal for
>>> a 35-day public comment on 15 November 2015. Alongside the 35-= day public
>>> comment, the CCWG-Accountability will submit these resources t= o the
>>> Chartering Organizations for initial feedback. The CCWG-Accoun= tability
>>> plans to issue a full detailed report, including annexes and i= n-depth
>>> documentation, mid-way into the public comment period for roug= hly 20
>>> days of consultation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A Formal Update cannot legitimately be the basis of either pub= lic
>>> comment or informed feedback from the Chartering organizations= . Thus it
>>> is clear that there is really only a 21-day public comment per= iod under
>>> the current timetable, starting with the November 30 release o= f the 3^rd
>>> draft Proposal, if the current target of December 21 is adhere= d to. This
>>> is inadequate for a matter of this importance and complexity, = and
>>> considering the major differences between the Member and Desig= nator models..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Therefore I again urge the CCWG to extend the public comment = period
>>> deadline to at least December 30 to permit a 30-day comment pe= riod,
>>> which should be the minimum requirement in this case.*
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> Lastly, I do not think that the issuance of a Formal Update ob= viates the
>>> need for an Executive Summary to accompany the 3^rd draft prop= osal. Such
>>> a Summary could be extremely useful in assisting the community= in
>>> understanding the document, particularly by explaining how the= key
>>> remaining issues were resolved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for consideration of my views.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal*
>>>
>>> *Virtualaw LLC*
>>>
>>> *1155 F Street, NW*
>>>
>>> *Suite 1050*
>>>
>>> *Washington, DC 20004*
>>>
>>> *202-559-8597/Direct*
>>>
>>> *202-559-8750/Fax*
>>>
>>> *202-255-6172/cell***
>>>
>>> * *
>>>
>>> *Twitter: @VlawDC*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> */"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey/*=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org
>>> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *On Beh= alf Of
>>> *Mathieu Weill
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 8:22 AM
>>> *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org
>>> *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] Status of summary document
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The activity on the list has been very intense lately. As co-c= hairs we
>>> would like to warmly thank all commenters on the recent docume= nts. The
>>> feedbacks were extremely helpful, whether on substance or form= at, and
>>> our support team is working hard to take your feedback in acco= unt for
>>> the updated version.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You will remember that a lot of concerns were raised that what= the CCWG
>>> is working on is difficult to understand for those who are not= following
>>> the groups intense work. In response to that, we have discusse= d and
>>> agreed we would publish a document explaining in plain languag= e what we
>>> are doing. We have factored this into the agreed plan.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At the time, we had expected to having reached consensus on al= l
>>> remaining questions. As this is not the case today, we suggest= flagging
>>> this accordingly and move forward with the publication of the = document,
>>> which we would call a *Formal Update on our progress in and af= ter the
>>> Dublin meeting*, rather than an executive summary.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many of you have correctly stated that the document we shared = with you
>>> is not an executive summary due to its length. It is rather a = short
>>> version of our report without offering information on the rati= onale for
>>> decisions and the genesis of our recommendation. This level of= detail
>>> will be found in our report. We have, however, added a 2 page = abstract
>>> in addition to incorporating a plethora of your suggestions to= make this
>>> document accurate, more accessible and shorter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To be clear:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The document that we are planning to issue on Nov 15 is design= ed to
>>> update the community on the progress we have made during and a= fter ICANN
>>> 54. Its goal is to raise awareness of where we are, what our p= roposals
>>> are, so that outreach can start and consideration of our final= report
>>> (announced for Nov 30th) can take place in a shorter time fram= e.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> While the content of the document would reflect the positions = of our
>>> group, closing outstanding issues is not a requirement before = issuing
>>> this formal update. Outstanding issues will be flagged as such= . What is
>>> needed is a high level summary, as well as some level of detai= l
>>> regarding the topics we made progress on in Dublin : decision = making,
>>> sole designator model, budget, individual director removal, an= d human
>>> rights.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Our public comment period will then focus on soliciting feedba= ck on
>>> these changes in order to avoid the duplication of efforts for=
>>> commenters on areas of our report that already enjoyed broad s= upport.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With the full report, we will offer the opportunity to publish= minority
>>> statements.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We do hope that you find these clarifications and suggestions = helpful.
>>> We will circulate the next version of the Update within the ne= xt 12
>>> hours, and the discussion of the document will be on the agend= a of our
>>> call on Friday 13 November, at 6.00 UTC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many thanks again to all of you for your continued commitment.=
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thomas, Leon and Mathieu
>>>
>>> Co-chairs
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>>>
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
>>> Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4450/10889 - Release Da= te: 10/25/15
>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>>> Ac= countability-Cross-Community@icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.or= g/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
> _______________________________________________
> Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
> Accountabi= lity-Cross-Community@icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailma= n/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
Accountability-= Cross-Community@icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/lis= tinfo/accountability-cross-community

___________________= ____________________________
Accountability-Cross-Community= mailing list
Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community=
= --Apple-Mail-67585CD2-843E-4F01-89A0-B10780A78888-- --===============7245950141596533190== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community --===============7245950141596533190==--