Hello all, The notes, recordings and transcripts for CCWG Accountability WS2 Human Rights Subgroup Meeting #4 - 6 September 2016 will be available here: https://community.icann.org/x/DRKsAw A copy of the notes may be found below. Thank you. With kind regards, Brenda Brewer MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant ICANN - Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers Notes 1. Administrivia Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc * Cheryl Langdon-Orr currently only on phone. * Nigel Roberts Excused. * No changes to SOIs. 2. Discussion on: the Summary on what was agreed and discussed on human rights during WS1 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rwpw9aSAqboRO2_rNkjMVJPOmYwmdr5B1_M_aNMo... * Tatiana Tropina: document essentially completed. * David McAuley: I just lost my phone - will change - in meantime I was present in WP4 and have read document Tanya is speaking about and have no issue with it, * Anne Aikman-Scalese: Agree with those on the list who have remarked that the definition of "respect" is a very important part of developing this FOI. * Niels ten Oever: Comments on the document as is? * Kavouss Arasteh: We should never approve anything in one meeting especially given this short notice. * Niels ten Oever: We will leave the document open for comments in the coming week and seek approval at our next meeting if there are no significant issues. 3. Discussion on: Concerns on possible impacts of Human Rights bylaw and FoI https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KcKGRJjuhKEzCh2AZ8PPR_MofOQFBN8CMuJqTG_h... * Niels ten Oever: Paul Twomey is still unavailable and as such the document has not advanced much. * Greg Shatan: We need to have a plan as to how to add to this document and organize it. * Kavouss Arasteh: Can we have the document on the screen. We seem to still be struggling with respect vs enforcement. * Andrew Mack: same concerns as KA. * Tatiana Tropina: the bylaws clearly state we cannot put in enforcement or protection. Some parts of Ruggie go to enforcement. * jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): As the Ruggie principles are recognized as a standard, we would need to clearly explain when and why we would diverge from them in this in the FoI * Greg Shatan: We have to be careful not to stumble into default enforcement. * Kavouss Arasteh: Need to avoid enforcement. * David McAuley: I agree with GS and TT. If we develop something we are not developing policy we are interpreting the bylaws which requires us to RESPECT Internationally recognized HR - this is very specific. * Tijani Ben Jemaa: There is no mention of enforcement in the remit of WS2 for HR. this would be widening the scope and is not acceptable. * Tatiana Tropina: Greg, I wonder if there is a transcript. We agreed in the WS1 to treat Ruggie with care but it seems that it comes up again and again. So may be finding the discussion makes the things easier (I am afraid to use the word "easy" now) * Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): agree that we are here for an "interpretation" exercise, not a policy development * Greg Shatan: Thanks, Niels. I see it is an implementation for FIFA. How ironic. * Markus Kummer: +1 - for sure. But we have to analyze why and where the Ruggie Principles don't apply to ICANN. * Tatiana Tropina: Niels, ICANN is not like other non-profit too. there is already the cctld debate on the doc - as one of the points * David McAuley: We should not assume that the Ruggie principles will be included in an HR FOI until we all agree on which parts apply. * Tatiana Tropina: Completely agree. Need to wait for Paul Twomey who has significant experience with the Ruggie principals. * Tatiana Tropina: Markus, exactly. One of the points I already voiced - in my opinion they do go to enforcement and protection (Ok, mitigation and remedies) and many of these ICANN can't do * Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): The Mission sets the limits to ICANN actions - insofar ccTLDs are concerned, ICANNs role is very limited * Anne Aikman-Scalese: Unfortunately the Ruggie definition of "respect" appears to implicate ICANN in content regulation. * Markus Kummer: +1 David * Kavouss Arasteh: If we are to include the Ruggie principles it should be a consensus of this group. * David McAuley 2: +1 Tanya, and Paul Twomey's insights as a prior ICANN CEO will be quite helpful * Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): It would certainly see Paul Twomey's comments again and consider them in light of the wording given to the commitment in the new Bylaws (...as a "core value") * Tatiana Tropina: Ruggie shall be out unless we decide they are in... Agree that we shall not discuss for a long time about their applicability since we decided not to commit to them :) * Greg Shatan: Agree with DM and TT that Ruggie principles are out until they are in. Given the lack of other input we need to find alternatives? or do we have to start from scratch. If we do start from scratch, then we have to give a nod to the Ruggie principles. FIFA definition of respect seems very active and bordering on enforcement? * Kavouss Arasteh: we should not discuss Enforce or Protect going forward. * Niels ten Oever: we should look at the Ruggie principles. * Tijani Ben Jemaa: Participants should look at the Ruggie principles and given their input on the list as to what is applicable and what is not. * Niels ten Oever: we need to analyze the Ruggie Principles to see how they could apply, or not, to ICANN. Who would take on doing the first cut of the analysis? * Tatiana Tropina: Hm, Niels, no, I think co-chairs shall put the doc on and then we all comment * Tatiana Tropina: I don't think there would be a lack of comments! Rather I perceive an unreadable mess * Niels Ten Oever: PM and TT on point for this. Everyone should familiarize themselves with the Ruggie principles before the meeting next week. 4. Discussion on FoI draft document https://docs.google.com/document/d/1emqmzyB9_0vm6oKxhIWZ47L7lxcFKUBHVnkBYUOs... * Niels ten Oever: Mostly covered in the previous point and on the list. As such we shall skip this point today. 5. AOB * Niels ten Oever: review of agenda for the next meeting. * Kavouss Arasteh: Can we have an updated version of the plan and when there are meetings schedule. * Tijani Ben Jemaa: Please send links and documents on the list so everyone can familiarize themselves with those documents for our next meeting. * Niels ten Oever: Adjourned.