SLIGHTLY revised Fundamental Commitments and Core Values Chart
This chart slightly updates the April 17 Frozen Draft by reflecting WP1 work on AoC commitments. Changes (minor) are in PURPLE J. Beckwith Burr Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006 Office: + 1.202.533.2932 Mobile: +1.202.352.6367 / becky.burr@neustar.biz<mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz> / www.neustar.biz
On 23/04/2015 20:01, Burr, Becky wrote:
This chart slightly updates the April 17 Frozen Draft by reflecting WP1 work on AoC commitments. Changes (minor) are in PURPLE
Thank you for this. I don't think adding language on "the public interest" to the first of our core values is a minor change: this has proven a very delicate and contentious topic. I certainly prefer the language proposed for the Fundamental Commitments "[seeks input from the public], *for whose benefit ICANN shall in all events act*" to the language in the core values "ensure that decisions are made in the global public interest". The former makes clear that we are concerned with a public beneficiary not the private interests of any party. The latter risks importing the whole range of claims as to where the public interest lies, and also the many governmental claims to be the sole or preeminent decisionmaker concerning the same. Malcolm. -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
Thanks Malcolm J. Beckwith Burr Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006 Office: + 1.202.533.2932 Mobile: +1.202.352.6367 / becky.burr@neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz On 4/24/15, 3:26 AM, "Malcolm Hutty" <malcolm@linx.net> wrote:
On 23/04/2015 20:01, Burr, Becky wrote:
This chart slightly updates the April 17 Frozen Draft by reflecting WP1 work on AoC commitments. Changes (minor) are in PURPLE
Thank you for this. I don't think adding language on "the public interest" to the first of our core values is a minor change: this has proven a very delicate and contentious topic.
I certainly prefer the language proposed for the Fundamental Commitments "[seeks input from the public], *for whose benefit ICANN shall in all events act*" to the language in the core values "ensure that decisions are made in the global public interest". The former makes clear that we are concerned with a public beneficiary not the private interests of any party. The latter risks importing the whole range of claims as to where the public interest lies, and also the many governmental claims to be the sole or preeminent decisionmaker concerning the same.
Malcolm.
-- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__publicaffairs.linx.net _&d=AwIF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8W DDkMr4k&m=VQ_w0bqTPW8-O2zOzF0tn-qbKgitCe7wmt3b_KClOC8&s=WY9Wh_qTcKTuslhlWj 2as3qgc9xvh8vUr7nJeU21Zy4&e=
London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY
Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
Malcolm, this reminds me that I have echoed Avri¹s sentiment that the public interest is something that can only be discovered through the bottom up multistakeholder process. Rather than take out references to ³the public interest² - which appears repeatedly in the AoC - I¹m going to take a stab at adding that concept. Thanks for reminding me. J. Beckwith Burr Neustar, Inc. / Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006 Office: + 1.202.533.2932 Mobile: +1.202.352.6367 / becky.burr@neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz On 4/24/15, 3:26 AM, "Malcolm Hutty" <malcolm@linx.net> wrote:
On 23/04/2015 20:01, Burr, Becky wrote:
This chart slightly updates the April 17 Frozen Draft by reflecting WP1 work on AoC commitments. Changes (minor) are in PURPLE
Thank you for this. I don't think adding language on "the public interest" to the first of our core values is a minor change: this has proven a very delicate and contentious topic.
I certainly prefer the language proposed for the Fundamental Commitments "[seeks input from the public], *for whose benefit ICANN shall in all events act*" to the language in the core values "ensure that decisions are made in the global public interest". The former makes clear that we are concerned with a public beneficiary not the private interests of any party. The latter risks importing the whole range of claims as to where the public interest lies, and also the many governmental claims to be the sole or preeminent decisionmaker concerning the same.
Malcolm.
-- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__publicaffairs.linx.net _&d=AwIF-g&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8W DDkMr4k&m=VQ_w0bqTPW8-O2zOzF0tn-qbKgitCe7wmt3b_KClOC8&s=WY9Wh_qTcKTuslhlWj 2as3qgc9xvh8vUr7nJeU21Zy4&e=
London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY
Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
On 2015-04-24 09:29, Burr, Becky wrote:
Malcolm, this reminds me that I have echoed Avri¹s sentiment that the public interest is something that can only be discovered through the bottom up multistakeholder process. Rather than take out references to ³the public interest² - which appears repeatedly in the AoC - I¹m going to take a stab at adding that concept.
Thanks for reminding me.
That would certainly help with the "'public interest' means 'government' (to some people at least)" aspect. There's also the scope problem: the concern that, to some people, taking decisions in the public interest means co-opting ICANN's powers in relation to DNS as a tool to achieve public interest objectives that themselves have nothing to do with a well-functioning DNS per se. We're tried our best to constrain this through the scope and fundamental commitments, but it's a difficult problem and all efforts are necessarily imperfect. I still worry that this language weighs in on the wrong side of this latter issue problem, and would like to find an alternative way of expressing what I think is meant, that didn't introduce this weakness. As I said, I think the wording in the Fundamental Commitments section is preferable to that proposed for the "core values" section. Given the addition to the "Fundamental Commitments" section, does that not satisfy? Is there really any need to also add this to the "Core Values" at all? What additional purpose does it serve? -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
Malcolm, ICANN has been using the phrase "Global Public Interest" for years, and there has not been a problem. "Global Public Interest" in fact, defines the mission of ICANN in the right language. I would agree with anyone who prefers this phrase. If it is indeed risky to use the phrase "public interest", if it paves way for a Government claim that they are the ones authorized to care for public interest, if at all, then we could find and examine alternative phrases such as "Global User's Interest" or "Collective Interest" or "Stakeholder's common interest" or by coining a phrase using words such as benevolence. Sivasubramanian M Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Malcolm Hutty <malcolm@linx.net> wrote:
On 2015-04-24 09:29, Burr, Becky wrote:
Malcolm, this reminds me that I have echoed Avri¹s sentiment that the public interest is something that can only be discovered through the bottom up multistakeholder process. Rather than take out references to ³the public interest² - which appears repeatedly in the AoC - I¹m going to take a stab at adding that concept.
Thanks for reminding me.
That would certainly help with the "'public interest' means 'government' (to some people at least)" aspect.
There's also the scope problem: the concern that, to some people, taking decisions in the public interest means co-opting ICANN's powers in relation to DNS as a tool to achieve public interest objectives that themselves have nothing to do with a well-functioning DNS per se. We're tried our best to constrain this through the scope and fundamental commitments, but it's a difficult problem and all efforts are necessarily imperfect.
I still worry that this language weighs in on the wrong side of this latter issue problem, and would like to find an alternative way of expressing what I think is meant, that didn't introduce this weakness. As I said, I think the wording in the Fundamental Commitments section is preferable to that proposed for the "core values" section.
Given the addition to the "Fundamental Commitments" section, does that not satisfy? Is there really any need to also add this to the "Core Values" at all? What additional purpose does it serve?
-- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/
London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY
Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
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On 24/04/2015 11:04, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
Malcolm,
ICANN has been using the phrase "Global Public Interest" for years, and there has not been a problem. "Global Public Interest" in fact, defines the mission of ICANN in the right language. I would agree with anyone who prefers this phrase.
Sivasubramanian, What in your opinion is achieved by this phrase in the Core Values that is not already sufficiently achieved by saying in the Fundamental Commitments : "3. Employ open, transparent and bottom-up, private sector led multistakeholder policy development processes that (i) seeks input from the public, for whose benefit ICANN shall in all events act, [...]" ? Kind Regards, Malcolm. -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
Malcolm "Global Public Interest" as a string conveys it more effectively. Would be great if it is a headline somewhere. Sivasubramanian M <https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 4:02 PM, Malcolm Hutty <malcolm@linx.net> wrote:
On 24/04/2015 11:04, Sivasubramanian M wrote:
Malcolm,
ICANN has been using the phrase "Global Public Interest" for years, and there has not been a problem. "Global Public Interest" in fact, defines the mission of ICANN in the right language. I would agree with anyone who prefers this phrase.
Sivasubramanian,
What in your opinion is achieved by this phrase in the Core Values that is not already sufficiently achieved by saying in the Fundamental Commitments :
"3. Employ open, transparent and bottom-up, private sector led multistakeholder policy development processes that (i) seeks input from the public, for whose benefit ICANN shall in all events act, [...]"
?
Kind Regards,
Malcolm.
-- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/
London Internet Exchange Ltd 21-27 St Thomas Street, London SE1 9RY
Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
participants (3)
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Burr, Becky -
Malcolm Hutty -
Sivasubramanian M