Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
To the GAC members on this list, I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN. Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort? and I must admit I have never fully understand the term. I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN. I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public. Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice? e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public. Thanks, Bruce Tonkin
Hi Bruce, While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful. In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy. Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy. In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations. Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest". Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice? You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice. Rgds, Tracy Hackshaw On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Having read Tracy's illumination, I would ask, for my edification; does the delicate and deliberate process you speak of also take onto account policy which may not actually be done ( implemented) and policy which is done, which may not have been declared as policy? If you get my drift. This is not an area I am too familiar with. Justice Burrough "Public policy ... is a very unruly horse and when you get astride of it, you never know where it will carry you." rd On Oct 29, 2015 8:36 PM, "Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google" < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au
wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Hi Rudi, In some (many? all?) countries (like mine), a decision of the *Cabinet* AUTOMATICALLY qualifies as GOVERNMENT Policy ... however, not in all cases would these qualify as Public or National Policy (as an example, they may be missing the public consultative element). Nonetheless, and again, *this is from my own position ONLY*, I would imagine that in the GAC, representatives must also consider these forms of Policy (which are essentially indications of a Government's position on a particular issue) in the GAC deliberations. I woudn't exactly identify these as policy which is not "done" or fully "cooked" given that the Cabinet (or equivalent High Level Decision Making Body or Authority) has approved same. Policy Advisors, Technocrats and Diplomats (comprising the majority, if not all of the GAC Membership) *MUST* factor in this form of policy (i.e. that referred to "Government Policy") in their deliberations and discussions. My $0.02 Rgds, Tracy On 29 October 2015 at 21:22, Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
Having read Tracy's illumination, I would ask, for my edification; does the delicate and deliberate process you speak of also take onto account policy which may not actually be done ( implemented) and policy which is done, which may not have been declared as policy? If you get my drift. This is not an area I am too familiar with.
Justice Burrough
"Public policy ... is a very unruly horse and when you get astride of it, you never know where it will carry you."
rd On Oct 29, 2015 8:36 PM, "Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google" < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Well captured Tracy. In my humble opinion as ICANN Internationalizes, the GAC provides a crucial linkage with the aspirations of many nations that are embracing or have embraced the Internet. I believe this has contributed in a way to one world one internet since whenever there are controversial issues that can lead to fragmentation of the Internet, ICANN is able to handle governments as governments using a language they understand best and i suppose the GAC advise contributes immensely to this. Best Regards On 10/30/15, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Rudi,
In some (many? all?) countries (like mine), a decision of the *Cabinet* AUTOMATICALLY qualifies as GOVERNMENT Policy ... however, not in all cases would these qualify as Public or National Policy (as an example, they may be missing the public consultative element).
Nonetheless, and again, *this is from my own position ONLY*, I would imagine that in the GAC, representatives must also consider these forms of Policy (which are essentially indications of a Government's position on a particular issue) in the GAC deliberations. I woudn't exactly identify these as policy which is not "done" or fully "cooked" given that the Cabinet (or equivalent High Level Decision Making Body or Authority) has approved same.
Policy Advisors, Technocrats and Diplomats (comprising the majority, if not all of the GAC Membership) *MUST* factor in this form of policy (i.e. that referred to "Government Policy") in their deliberations and discussions.
My $0.02
Rgds,
Tracy
On 29 October 2015 at 21:22, Rudolph Daniel <rudi.daniel@gmail.com> wrote:
Having read Tracy's illumination, I would ask, for my edification; does the delicate and deliberate process you speak of also take onto account policy which may not actually be done ( implemented) and policy which is done, which may not have been declared as policy? If you get my drift. This is not an area I am too familiar with.
Justice Burrough
"Public policy ... is a very unruly horse and when you get astride of it, you never know where it will carry you."
rd On Oct 29, 2015 8:36 PM, "Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google" < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
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-- Barrack O. Otieno +254721325277 +254-20-2498789 Skype: barrack.otieno http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/
Thanks Tracy this is very helpful. Sent from my iPhone On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bruce, While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful. In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy. Public or National Policy IS NOT EQUIVALENT to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical precursor to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy. In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations. Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest". Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice? You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice. Rgds, Tracy Hackshaw On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>> wrote: To the GAC members on this list, I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN. Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort? and I must admit I have never fully understand the term. I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN. I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public. Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice? e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public. Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear all, It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract: “3. ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things: * secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity; * the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide; * transparency and non--‐discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address; * effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services; * fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern; and * freedom of expression.” Regards Jorge Von: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] Im Auftrag von Bruce Tonkin Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 An: Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Betreff: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Thanks Tracy this is very helpful. Sent from my iPhone On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bruce, While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful. In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy. Public or National Policy IS NOT EQUIVALENT to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical precursor to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy. In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations. Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest". Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice? You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice. Rgds, Tracy Hackshaw On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>> wrote: To the GAC members on this list, I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN. Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort? and I must admit I have never fully understand the term. I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN. I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public. Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice? e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public. Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear all, Thank you for this. I have a slightly related question. This <http://www.circleid.com/posts/20121024_is_icann_stumbling_forward_gac_advice...> article, takes the instance of the GAC Toronto Communique and claims that the GAC is moving towards a 'layered system' for its formal interactions with the Board. GAC's advice then is either in the form of 'GAC encouragement, GAC request or GAC advice.' This would indicate varying degrees of emphasis in GAC's advice on separate issues. My question is, has the GAC ever come to a formal/informal understanding on this? If this has been recorded anywhere, I'd really appreciate being directed to it. warmly, ----------------------- Bedavyasa Mohanty *Junior Fellow* Observer Research Foundation 20, Rouse Avenue New Delhi 110 002 www.orfonline.org Tel: +91-11-43520020 (Ext. 2195) Encrypted email: bedavyasa@protonmail.com On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 1:36 PM, <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> wrote:
Dear all,
It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract:
“3.
ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things:
• secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity;
• the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide;
• transparency and non--‐discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address;
• effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services;
• fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern;
and
• freedom of expression.”
Regards
Jorge
*Von:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *Im Auftrag von *Bruce Tonkin *Gesendet:* Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 *An:* Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> *Cc:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Thanks Tracy this is very helpful.
Sent from my iPhone
On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
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Thanks Jorge. From: Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch [mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch] Sent: Friday, 30 October 2015 7:06 PM To: Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>; tracyhackshaw@gmail.com Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: AW: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Dear all, It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract: “3. ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things: • secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity; • the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide; • transparency and non--‐discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address; • effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services; • fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern; and • freedom of expression.” Regards Jorge Von: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] Im Auftrag von Bruce Tonkin Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 An: Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Betreff: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Thanks Tracy this is very helpful. Sent from my iPhone On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bruce, While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful. In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy. Public or National Policy IS NOT EQUIVALENT to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical precursor to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy. In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations. Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest". Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice? You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice. Rgds, Tracy Hackshaw On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>> wrote: To the GAC members on this list, I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN. Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort? and I must admit I have never fully understand the term. I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN. I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public. Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice? e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public. Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Thank you, Jorge. Very helpful. For my own clarification & understanding, can you (or any other GAC participants) provide examples of a current/recent topic that would NOT be subject to GAC advice, under its Operating Principles? Sometimes the exceptions help to define the boundaries of the rule. Thanks— J. From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>" <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>> Date: Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:06 To: "Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>" <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>>, "tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>" <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> Cc: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Dear all, It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract: “3. ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things: • secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity; • the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide; • transparency and non---discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address; • effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services; • fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern; and • freedom of expression.” Regards Jorge Von: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] Im Auftrag von Bruce Tonkin Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 An: Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Betreff: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Thanks Tracy this is very helpful. Sent from my iPhone On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bruce, While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful. In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy. Public or National Policy IS NOT EQUIVALENT to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical precursor to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy. In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations. Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest". Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice? You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice. Rgds, Tracy Hackshaw On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>> wrote: To the GAC members on this list, I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN. Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort? and I must admit I have never fully understand the term. I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN. I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public. Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice? e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public. Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Difficult to say, at least for me, as we concentrate and know more about the issues with public policy implications. Other, purely technical or commercial issues are normally not on our radar, but may be very important for technical committees or for the GNSO. Anyway, normally you will not see a "binary choice2 but varying degrees of public policy implication - for instance "universal acceptance" might be important on a general level, but for the moment it is more of a "to follow issue", while there are issues (such as WHOIS) with a lot of public policy implications... Regards Jorge Von: James M. Bladel [mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 17:03 An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Betreff: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Thank you, Jorge. Very helpful. For my own clarification & understanding, can you (or any other GAC participants) provide examples of a current/recent topic that would NOT be subject to GAC advice, under its Operating Principles? Sometimes the exceptions help to define the boundaries of the rule. Thanks- J. From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of "Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>" <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch>> Date: Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:06 To: "Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>" <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>>, "tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>" <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> Cc: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Dear all, It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract: "3. ICANN's decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things: * secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity; * the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide; * transparency and non---discriminatory practices in ICANN's role in the allocation of Internet names and address; * effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services; * fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern; and * freedom of expression." Regards Jorge Von: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] Im Auftrag von Bruce Tonkin Gesendet: Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 An: Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Betreff: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC Thanks Tracy this is very helpful. Sent from my iPhone On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com<mailto:tracyhackshaw@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Bruce, While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful. In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy. Public or National Policy IS NOT EQUIVALENT to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical precursor to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy. In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations. Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest". Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice? You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice. Rgds, Tracy Hackshaw On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au<mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>> wrote: To the GAC members on this list, I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN. Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort? and I must admit I have never fully understand the term. I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN. I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public. Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice? e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public. Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear James I agree with Jorge: it is not possible to define boundaries but it is more likely there are gradations of interest and "watching briefs." I do not recall the GAC expressing a position for the record that a particular issue was beyond its scope and that therefore it had no locus. A fundamental concern for governments (as made clear in the extract from the GAC Operating Principles cited by Jorge) is ensuring stability and security in the DNS because the economic and social welfare of citizens and business relies on the sustainability of the DNS as currently devised and managed. You could argue that all ICANN policy issues and development processes - even the most arcane technical issue - have a bearing on that overarching concern of governments - of our ministers. Were ICANN to go belly up or the global DNS start to fragment into separate units, to become balkanised, rest assured the GAC representatives would be hauled up in front of their ministers and parliamentary committees to explain how they failed to prevent that! Furthermore, the GAC's members' and observers' task to ensure there is consistency of ICANN decisions and strategy with national and international laws also relates primarily to protecting and advancing social and economic benefits and norms. With regard to the former, that is why it is important for GAC reps to establish consultation channels with national regulators, both governmental within their administrations, and independent regulators (the GAC's inputs into the new gTLDs AGB was an example of this being necessary extensively). With regard to international laws, it is significant that so many inter-governmental organisations have decided that they as institutions, as well as their member states, should participate in the GAC as observers. To sum up, I agree with Jorge that the GAC Operating Principles provide the essential basis for answering the question of what is the role of the GAC in the ICANN model and why over 150 governments and over 30 IGOs have registered to participate in ICANN processes. To extend beyond that in order to define precise boundaries would not be easy and I suggest not a worthwhile exercise. I hope these comments are helpful. Mark Mark Carvell United Kingdom Representative on the GAC Global Internet Governance Policy Department for Culture, Media and Sport mark.carvell@culture.gov.uk tel +44 (0) 20 7211 6062 On 30 October 2015 at 16:09, <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> wrote:
Difficult to say, at least for me, as we concentrate and know more about the issues with public policy implications. Other, purely technical or commercial issues are normally not on our radar, but may be very important for technical committees or for the GNSO.
Anyway, normally you will not see a “binary choice2 but varying degrees of public policy implication – for instance “universal acceptance” might be important on a general level, but for the moment it is more of a “to follow issue”, while there are issues (such as WHOIS) with a lot of public policy implications…
Regards
Jorge
*Von:* James M. Bladel [mailto:jbladel@godaddy.com] *Gesendet:* Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 17:03 *An:* Cancio Jorge BAKOM <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> *Cc:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Thank you, Jorge. Very helpful.
For my own clarification & understanding, can you (or any other GAC participants) provide examples of a current/recent topic that would NOT be subject to GAC advice, under its Operating Principles? Sometimes the exceptions help to define the boundaries of the rule.
Thanks—
J.
*From: *<accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of " Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> *Date: *Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:06 *To: *"Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>, "tracyhackshaw@gmail.com" <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> *Cc: *"accountability-cross-community@icann.org" < accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Dear all,
It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract:
“3.
ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things:
• secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity;
• the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide;
• transparency and non---discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address;
• effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services;
• fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern;
and
• freedom of expression.”
Regards
Jorge
*Von:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *Im Auftrag von *Bruce Tonkin *Gesendet:* Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 *An:* Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> *Cc:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Thanks Tracy this is very helpful.
Sent from my iPhone
On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Just for the record, no advice given by the GAC pertaining to individual (cc)TLDs is acceptable under any circumstances. el
Dear James, based on my own past experience, and under the previous GAC Chair, the guidance was not under the GACs operating principles as such, but case by case based the question if the issue had a specific "public interest" aspect. And since "public interest" is even harder to tell (and is the matter of another initiative), over the last 2 years the GNSO Council has developed two lines of cooperation with the GAC, one the GNSO-GAC permanent working group (excuse my memory here for the exact name), as well as the early engagement in pdp policy development processes as you may know from the Council. I personally tend to like a *relative* definition of "public interest" in terms of accountability of regulators, instead of the *absolute* one a lot of people in ICANN love to dream around and keep searching for a holly grail. I keep in my mind a pretty easy one, from the long-lived handbook of public utility regulators by a Georgetown University Professor Scott Hempling, which may or may not survive the internet age: *The effective (and accountable) regulator (1) defines the public interest, (2) identifies the private interest that could undermine that public interest, and then (3) shapes regulation to align private behavior with the public interest*. Easy, isn´t it???? *Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez* +506 8837 7176 Skype carlos.raulg _________ Apartado 1571-1000 *COSTA RICA* On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 10:03 AM, James M. Bladel <jbladel@godaddy.com> wrote:
Thank you, Jorge. Very helpful.
For my own clarification & understanding, can you (or any other GAC participants) provide examples of a current/recent topic that would NOT be subject to GAC advice, under its Operating Principles? Sometimes the exceptions help to define the boundaries of the rule.
Thanks—
J.
From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of " Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> Date: Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:06 To: "Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>, " tracyhackshaw@gmail.com" <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> Cc: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org" < accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Dear all,
It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract:
“3.
ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things:
• secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity;
• the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide;
• transparency and non---discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address;
• effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services;
• fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern;
and
• freedom of expression.”
Regards
Jorge
*Von:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *Im Auftrag von *Bruce Tonkin *Gesendet:* Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 *An:* Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> *Cc:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Thanks Tracy this is very helpful.
Sent from my iPhone
On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
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Dear Chris, Tks for your immediate search. WHat we are dealing here is not to interprete GAC Torento advice. Perhaps we may need to concentrate to what we are doing in 2015.Regards Kavouss 2015-10-31 23:01 GMT+01:00 Carlos Raul <carlosraulg@gmail.com>:
Dear James,
based on my own past experience, and under the previous GAC Chair, the guidance was not under the GACs operating principles as such, but case by case based the question if the issue had a specific "public interest" aspect.
And since "public interest" is even harder to tell (and is the matter of another initiative), over the last 2 years the GNSO Council has developed two lines of cooperation with the GAC, one the GNSO-GAC permanent working group (excuse my memory here for the exact name), as well as the early engagement in pdp policy development processes as you may know from the Council.
I personally tend to like a *relative* definition of "public interest" in terms of accountability of regulators, instead of the *absolute* one a lot of people in ICANN love to dream around and keep searching for a holly grail.
I keep in my mind a pretty easy one, from the long-lived handbook of public utility regulators by a Georgetown University Professor Scott Hempling, which may or may not survive the internet age:
*The effective (and accountable) regulator (1) defines the public interest, (2) identifies the private interest that could undermine that public interest, and then (3) shapes regulation to align private behavior with the public interest*.
Easy, isn´t it????
*Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez* +506 8837 7176 Skype carlos.raulg _________ Apartado 1571-1000 *COSTA RICA*
On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 10:03 AM, James M. Bladel <jbladel@godaddy.com> wrote:
Thank you, Jorge. Very helpful.
For my own clarification & understanding, can you (or any other GAC participants) provide examples of a current/recent topic that would NOT be subject to GAC advice, under its Operating Principles? Sometimes the exceptions help to define the boundaries of the rule.
Thanks—
J.
From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of " Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" <Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch> Date: Friday, October 30, 2015 at 3:06 To: "Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>, "tracyhackshaw@gmail.com" <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> Cc: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org" < accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Dear all,
It is always useful to have a look at our governing docs, for instance the GAC OP (attached) and the following extract:
“3.
ICANN’s decision making should take into account public policy objectives including, among other things:
• secure, reliable and affordable functioning of the Internet, including uninterrupted service and universal connectivity;
• the robust development of the Internet, in the interest of the public good, for government, private, educational, and commercial purposes, world wide;
• transparency and non---discriminatory practices in ICANN’s role in the allocation of Internet names and address;
• effective competition at all appropriate levels of activity and conditions for fair competition, which will bring benefits to all categories of users including, greater choice, lower prices, and better services;
• fair information practices, including respect for personal privacy and issues of consumer concern;
and
• freedom of expression.”
Regards
Jorge
*Von:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *Im Auftrag von *Bruce Tonkin *Gesendet:* Freitag, 30. Oktober 2015 07:15 *An:* Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google <tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> *Cc:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Definition of public policy advice from the GAC
Thanks Tracy this is very helpful.
Sent from my iPhone
On 30 Oct 2015, at 11:36 AM, Tracy F. Hackshaw @ Google < tracyhackshaw@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bruce,
While I can't speak for the GAC on this, as a GAC member, and as a former student of the topic, I can provide my understanding based on my role in my country's Government if that might be helpful.
In my country, and in many parts of the world, the term, Public Policy is not used. In many countries (as in mine) Public Policy = National Policy.
Public or National Policy *IS NOT EQUIVALENT* to National Law, however, it is the key and normally most critical *precursor* to the development of legislation in the Government law making process. If we were to stretch the concept somewhat, we can say that National Law (when promulgated) forms a key element - but still a subset - of Public or National Policy.
In summary and simply, Public or National Policy is a Government's statement of direction - usually with clearly stated objectives and deliverables - on a particular area or series of areas - that is intended to be reflective of that country's (citizens') norms, attitudes, cultures and values; and further, to be implemented (and regulated and enforced, where applicable) by a country's various institutions primarily consisting of the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary. As a rule of thumb, National Policies should be developed through extensive consultation with a country's stakeholders over a significant period of time and several iterations of National Policy are to be expected before becoming "final" (and potentially leading to legislation). In other cases, National Policy is time limited and subject to periodic cycles of consultative redrafting and review - with potential attendant changes to related laws and regulations.
Public or National Policy is intended to be reflective of, and protective of, what has often been termed as the "Public Interest".
Of course, the above leads to the obvious issue - in the GAC, given that there are now over 150 members, what is/can be considered "public policy" advice?
You will appreciate therefore the delicate and deliberate efforts at consensus building in the GAC in issuing "public policy" advice.
Rgds,
Tracy Hackshaw
On 29 October 2015 at 18:23, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
To the GAC members on this list,
I note that in the bylaws the GAC has a role in providing "public policy" advice to ICANN.
Does the GAC have a working definition of what this means? Is there a UN standard definition of some sort?
and I must admit I have never fully understand the term.
I had originally expected that the GAC would provide advice on national laws and international treaties as it relates to ICANN.
I can understand that each country may have "policies" that are perhaps written documents and may vary by which government is in power at the time. E.g. a national government may have a written immigration policy or a foreign trade policy etc. These policies presumably have been approved by one or more Government ministers, and would generally be public.
Not sure how the GAC provides advice on "public policy" - should there be some sort of written national policies that support such advice?
e.g. ICANN policies are documented, approved by the Board, and made public.
Thanks, Bruce Tonkin _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
participants (11)
-
Barrack Otieno -
Bedavyasa Mohanty -
Bruce Tonkin -
Carlos Raul -
Dr Eberhard W Lisse -
James M. Bladel -
Jorge.Cancio＠bakom.admin.ch -
Kavouss Arasteh -
Mark Carvell -
Rudolph Daniel -
Tracy F. Hackshaw ＠ Google