Re: [ALAC] [GTLD-WG] Re "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" Public comment
There may not be massive changes to the ISO 3166 list by the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency, but there have been additions and deletions in the past 10 years. For example in 2010, http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_3166-1_newsletter_vi-8_split_of_the_dutch_antille... BQ, CW and SX were added for Bonaire, Saint Eustatius and Saba , Curaçao and Sint Maarten (Dutch part) in the Caribbean. My thinking is, why deny new countries and territories from the protections established by Specification 5, Section 2 intended to protect the 2 character ASCII labels of countries and territories? Interesting idea that end users may mistake a 2 character ASCII label for their country or territory e.g "AN" could be interpreted for Angola or Antigua and Barbuda when it used to be for the Netherlands Antilles (now removed as this territory no longer exists). Perhaps this was a reason for having Specification 5, Section 2 in the gTLD Registry agreement to block all 2 character ASCII labels. There are many reserved names at the second level denied to new gTLD operators. See page 68 of the baseline registry agreement at http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/agreement-approved-09jan14-en.pd... under Specification 5 "Schedule of reserved names" --- Dev Anand On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com
wrote:
Thank you Maureen.
Actually my argument on the matter is, from AA to ZZ, there are 676 permutations. We will never have so many territories anyway since we currently have less than 200 countries. Why deny new gTLD operators from accessing even the two letter second level domains that will never be used by countries?
Hi Mwendwa
There is nothing wrong with putting forward an argument about the other matter anyway. Because of my still growing understanding of the issue, I too misread it. Still learning.
Maureen
From: lordmwesh@gmail.com [mailto:lordmwesh@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mwendwa Kivuva Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 4:38 a.m. To: Dev Anand Teelucksingh Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond; gTLD WG; Maureen Hilyard Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [ALAC] Re "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" Public comment
I'm just realizing the folly of my argument. :)
Actually, the call is for second level e.g us.wiki or uk.gop so that argument may not stand.
Regards
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
On 10 July 2014 17:21, Maureen Hilyard <hilyard@oyster.net.ck> wrote:
+1 Mwendwa
-----Original Message----- From: gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mwendwa Kivuva Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 2:26 a.m. To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Cc: gTLD WG; ALAC Working List Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [ALAC] Re "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" Public comment
Thanks Dev for those constructive comments. I hope I'm coherent enough in my response :-).
On keeping with Specification 5, section 2, I think that clause should not be cast in stone, even if we we are to protect the interests of unborn territories. The way I see it, we can preemptively reserve names of new territories to be formed in the next 20 years based on the information on either of these lists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition We find that there are just about 10 territories that might be formed in the near future.
We find many countries not getting ISO 3166-1 codes which are more logical to their alphabetical country names. For example, UK and US are really perfect names with no confusion at all. But look at these names Angola - AO Antigua and Barbuda - AG [Austria - AT and Australia -AU] - Very similar country names but Austria was shortchanged [Congo - CG and Colombia - CO]
Based on the above, new territories can still get "not very appropriate" names when their desired names have been taken, but we should not reserve two character names indefinitely if innovators have use for them.
After all, even when a new gTLD is applied for, it will still have to comply with the guidebook, and go through community advice.
Warm Regards -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
On 10 July 2014 10:08, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Thanks for this, Dev. You'll note that the Statement is currently marked "No Statement" but if there is interest and your comments gain traction, the ALAC could indeed make a Statement. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/07/2014 08:06, Dev Anand Teelucksingh wrote:
Regarding the public comment on "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" at https://community.icann.org/x/VqzhAg which ends July 10 2014, I've posted the following at https://community.icann.org/x/VqzhAg for consideration:
"Various registries for multiple gTLDs are applying for exceptions to Specification 5, Section 2 of the New gTLD Registry Agreement ("Specification 5") with some registries suggesting the release of 2 character ASCII labels not on the current ISO 3166 standard would suffice.
While this seems harmless, there is a possibility of new countries and territories being created, and then allocated a new two character ASCII label by ISO 3166/MA (see
https://web.archive.org/web/20111101141651/http://www.iso.org/iso/coun <https://web.archive.org/web/20111101141651/http:/www.iso.org/iso/coun> try_codes/iso-3166-1_decoding_table.htm
).
Any new country or territory created after 2014 would therefore not receive the same protection as those in the 2014 ISO 3166-2 list and would find that their new 2 character label is "given away", should they wish for their 2 character ASCII label to be protected, as per Specification 5.
Now, should the principle established by Specification 5 protecting 2 character ASCII labels even be in the New gTLD Registry Agreement? Many would say, especially given the prevalence of two character labels in existing TLDs like .com, .org and .net that this principle shouldn't be applied to new gTLDs. However, this (IMO) is a separate issue to the question being asked for in the public comment.
If Specification 5 is meant to defend the principle that country codes in ISO 3166-2 should be protected in new gTLDs, then it should be enforced to ensure future countries and territories with new 2 character ASCII labels are protected in the same way as those territories and countries in today's ISO 3166-2 list.
Therefore, the proposals by Donuts for 143 of its new gTLDS, .kred by KredTLD Pty Ltd, .best by BestTLD Pty Ltd and .ceo by CEOTLD Pty Ltd. should be turned down in keeping with the principle of Specification
On 10/07/2014, Maureen Hilyard <hilyard@oyster.net.ck> wrote: 5.
The proposal by .wiki by Top Level Design LLC which specifies that the
two
character ASCII labels will only be used for languages identified by ISO 639-1 does appear to meet the threshold that the use will not be confused with the corresponding country codes, as per Specification 5 and could be approved.
Similarly, the proposal by .globo by Globo Comunicação e Participações S.A which proposed the use of two character ASCII labels that are not letters or by two characters where only one of the character is a letter are labels that would not be used by ISO 3166-2 and could be approved."
Thoughts?
Kind Regards,
Dev Anand Teelucksingh _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committe e+(ALAC)
_______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
_______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
The best athletes never started as the best athletes. You have to think anyway, so why not think big? - Donald Trump. "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky. Tackle the biggest frog first. I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
Hi Dev thanks for the additional information. In my mind, it does strengthen the argument for at least a short statement saying that we are concerned - and the two reasons below - there is a history of new country/territory names that should be protected and because of possible user confusion. Holly On 13 Jul 2014, at 3:11 am, Dev Anand Teelucksingh <devtee@gmail.com> wrote:
There may not be massive changes to the ISO 3166 list by the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency, but there have been additions and deletions in the past 10 years.
For example in 2010, http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_3166-1_newsletter_vi-8_split_of_the_dutch_antille...
BQ, CW and SX were added for Bonaire, Saint Eustatius and Saba , Curaçao and Sint Maarten (Dutch part) in the Caribbean.
My thinking is, why deny new countries and territories from the protections established by Specification 5, Section 2 intended to protect the 2 character ASCII labels of countries and territories?
Interesting idea that end users may mistake a 2 character ASCII label for their country or territory e.g "AN" could be interpreted for Angola or Antigua and Barbuda when it used to be for the Netherlands Antilles (now removed as this territory no longer exists). Perhaps this was a reason for having Specification 5, Section 2 in the gTLD Registry agreement to block all 2 character ASCII labels.
There are many reserved names at the second level denied to new gTLD operators. See page 68 of the baseline registry agreement at http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/agreement-approved-09jan14-en.pd... under Specification 5 "Schedule of reserved names"
--- Dev Anand
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva@transworldafrica.com
wrote:
Thank you Maureen.
Actually my argument on the matter is, from AA to ZZ, there are 676 permutations. We will never have so many territories anyway since we currently have less than 200 countries. Why deny new gTLD operators from accessing even the two letter second level domains that will never be used by countries?
Hi Mwendwa
There is nothing wrong with putting forward an argument about the other matter anyway. Because of my still growing understanding of the issue, I too misread it. Still learning.
Maureen
From: lordmwesh@gmail.com [mailto:lordmwesh@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Mwendwa Kivuva Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 4:38 a.m. To: Dev Anand Teelucksingh Cc: Mwendwa Kivuva; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond; gTLD WG; Maureen Hilyard Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [ALAC] Re "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" Public comment
I'm just realizing the folly of my argument. :)
Actually, the call is for second level e.g us.wiki or uk.gop so that argument may not stand.
Regards
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
On 10 July 2014 17:21, Maureen Hilyard <hilyard@oyster.net.ck> wrote:
+1 Mwendwa
-----Original Message----- From: gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mwendwa Kivuva Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 2:26 a.m. To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Cc: gTLD WG; ALAC Working List Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [ALAC] Re "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" Public comment
Thanks Dev for those constructive comments. I hope I'm coherent enough in my response :-).
On keeping with Specification 5, section 2, I think that clause should not be cast in stone, even if we we are to protect the interests of unborn territories. The way I see it, we can preemptively reserve names of new territories to be formed in the next 20 years based on the information on either of these lists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition We find that there are just about 10 territories that might be formed in the near future.
We find many countries not getting ISO 3166-1 codes which are more logical to their alphabetical country names. For example, UK and US are really perfect names with no confusion at all. But look at these names Angola - AO Antigua and Barbuda - AG [Austria - AT and Australia -AU] - Very similar country names but Austria was shortchanged [Congo - CG and Colombia - CO]
Based on the above, new territories can still get "not very appropriate" names when their desired names have been taken, but we should not reserve two character names indefinitely if innovators have use for them.
After all, even when a new gTLD is applied for, it will still have to comply with the guidebook, and go through community advice.
Warm Regards -- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
On 10 July 2014 10:08, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Thanks for this, Dev. You'll note that the Statement is currently marked "No Statement" but if there is interest and your comments gain traction, the ALAC could indeed make a Statement. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 10/07/2014 08:06, Dev Anand Teelucksingh wrote:
Regarding the public comment on "Introduction of Two-Character Domain Names in the New gTLD Namespace" at https://community.icann.org/x/VqzhAg which ends July 10 2014, I've posted the following at https://community.icann.org/x/VqzhAg for consideration:
"Various registries for multiple gTLDs are applying for exceptions to Specification 5, Section 2 of the New gTLD Registry Agreement ("Specification 5") with some registries suggesting the release of 2 character ASCII labels not on the current ISO 3166 standard would suffice.
While this seems harmless, there is a possibility of new countries and territories being created, and then allocated a new two character ASCII label by ISO 3166/MA (see
https://web.archive.org/web/20111101141651/http://www.iso.org/iso/coun <https://web.archive.org/web/20111101141651/http:/www.iso.org/iso/coun> try_codes/iso-3166-1_decoding_table.htm
).
Any new country or territory created after 2014 would therefore not receive the same protection as those in the 2014 ISO 3166-2 list and would find that their new 2 character label is "given away", should they wish for their 2 character ASCII label to be protected, as per Specification 5.
Now, should the principle established by Specification 5 protecting 2 character ASCII labels even be in the New gTLD Registry Agreement? Many would say, especially given the prevalence of two character labels in existing TLDs like .com, .org and .net that this principle shouldn't be applied to new gTLDs. However, this (IMO) is a separate issue to the question being asked for in the public comment.
If Specification 5 is meant to defend the principle that country codes in ISO 3166-2 should be protected in new gTLDs, then it should be enforced to ensure future countries and territories with new 2 character ASCII labels are protected in the same way as those territories and countries in today's ISO 3166-2 list.
Therefore, the proposals by Donuts for 143 of its new gTLDS, .kred by KredTLD Pty Ltd, .best by BestTLD Pty Ltd and .ceo by CEOTLD Pty Ltd. should be turned down in keeping with the principle of Specification
On 10/07/2014, Maureen Hilyard <hilyard@oyster.net.ck> wrote: 5.
The proposal by .wiki by Top Level Design LLC which specifies that the
two
character ASCII labels will only be used for languages identified by ISO 639-1 does appear to meet the threshold that the use will not be confused with the corresponding country codes, as per Specification 5 and could be approved.
Similarly, the proposal by .globo by Globo Comunicação e Participações S.A which proposed the use of two character ASCII labels that are not letters or by two characters where only one of the character is a letter are labels that would not be used by ISO 3166-2 and could be approved."
Thoughts?
Kind Regards,
Dev Anand Teelucksingh _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committe e+(ALAC)
_______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
_______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
-- ______________________ Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya twitter.com/lordmwesh
The best athletes never started as the best athletes. You have to think anyway, so why not think big? - Donald Trump. "You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky. Tackle the biggest frog first. I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALA...)
participants (2)
-
Dev Anand Teelucksingh -
Holly Raiche