Re: [ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes
I would also be comfortable with either 1 or 3. For reasons others have set out well, I am not happy with option 2. Holly On Sat 04/10/14 4:29 AM , Alan Greenberg alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca sent:
I have to question how much refinement we should be putting into something that so far, has happened perhaps once every year or two or three and to the best of my recollection has only been challenged once in our history.
Personally, I can readily accept 1 or 3. Which I have a preference for I will keep to myself for the moment.
I would prefer not to take 2, but could accept it, but suspect it may make us unable to properly fulfill our mandate and we would need to do some additional investigation regarding the interpretation of the Bylaws and how ombudsman issues are resolved.
Alan
At 03/10/2014 02:27 PM, Raf Fatani wrote:
Indeed that is how I understand it.
If we had a vote on these three items, I would
there needs to be a mechanism of 'checks and balances' to this option.> This said, maybe we can find agreement in these 'checks and balances' in order to find consensus in this group.> Would this be a good starting point? if so, for
mechanism that you would find agreeable?> Kind Regards,
Raf
On 3 Oct 2014, at 19:05, Alan Greenberg <alan .greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:>
This is getting to be interesting.> > So far, I think that we have general agreement on how to handle all votes except a certification where the RALO is undecided. Here we have multiple positions.> > 1. Secret but staff/chair can access details> > 2. Everything secret. 3. Everything published.
Alan
At 03/10/2014 01:42 PM, Fatima Cambronero wrote:> >
Dear All,
I agree with Sandra on this.
I expressed in our last teleconference a > similar point: our roles are as representatives from our RALOs.> >> I think whenever possible, our votes in certification and decertification processes should be open and transparent and be available to be consulted for our RALOs.> >> I believe it is easy to deal with happy people, when we voted in the same sense that our RALO expressed. But the main skill of a leader is dealing with less happy people when we voted on contrary sense of their "mandate". > If we can explain why our votes were in different sense, we don't be worried because some RALO members don't smile us anymore.> >> Just my 2 cents.
Best Regards,
Fatima
2014-10-03 14:39 GMT-03:00 Alberto Soto <<aso to@ibero-americano.org>asoto@ibero-americano.org>:> >> Again, I agree Alan. Not all measures of a > democratic government, are ideal. Seek balance, governance and better functionality.> >> Regards
Alberto
-----Mensaje original----- De: <alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac-bounces@atlarge-li sts.icann.org > [alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de Alan Greenberg> >> Enviado el: viernes, 03 de octubre de 2014 02:30 p.m.> >> Para: sandra hoferichter; Evan Leibovitch> >> CC: ALAC Asunto: Re: [ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes> >> Most votes would be open. Our rules allow > someone to explain their vote if they wish (particularly a no or abstain). For those few votes where there is no recommendation from the RALO, the vote would be secret, BUT we would be able to privately request a rationale for the vote.> >> You are correct (in my view) that in an ideal world, the ALAC members, who have an obligation to support the ALAC, At-Large and ICANN, could vote against the wishes of some in their RALO, and could justify this. The same is true for personnel votes, and some parts of ICANN have those open as well.> >> But I am not sure ALAC members are paid enough to subject them to possible harassment if we can easily remedy it.> >> Alan
At 03/10/2014 01:17 PM, sandra hoferichter wrote:> >> >Hi all, my thoughts on one point. I understand or self as being> >> >privileged in terms that most of us are elected by their RALOs to> >> >represent their interest. They put trust in us. Sometimes we have to> >> >take decisions such as certification and decertification. I see the> >> >point of personal relationships within a RALO - which might be> >> >challenged depending on he vote. BUT as we have a certain> >> >responsibility here I think all of us should take that burden to> >> >justify a decision personally within the region and globally as a> >> >group. This would be in my POV the most democratic approach.> >> >
Best Sandra
(Note: This message was send from my iPhone - I do apologise for any> >> >misspelling.)
Am 03.10.2014 um 17:52 schrieb Evan > Leibovitch <<evan@telly.org evan@telly.org>:> >> > > On 3 October 2014 11:42, Alan Greenberg > <<alan .greenberg@mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:> >> > >
> You are saying that your suggestion for for 2 would be:> >> > >> > 2. We have general agreement that for certification votes where> >> > >> there is definitive regional advice, we should have standard open> >> > >> votes. For cases where there is not definitive regional> >> > advice, how ALAC members vote should> >> > >> not be published.> >> > >
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-- Fatima Cambronero Abogada-Argentina
Phone: +54 9351 5282 668 Twitter: @facambronero Skype: fatima.cambronero
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