Further Information about At-Large Travel
Dear At-Large community members: The travel procedure for FY 2009 has been published - available at http://www.icann.org/en/announcements/announcement-13aug08-en.htm. Additional information on how this affects At-Large travel in the current FY is included below. For At-Large travel in FY 2009, in addition to funding the At-Large Summit, ICANN will be funding the 15 members of the ALAC to attend the Cairo meeting and the meeting being held in the Asia-Pacific region (location TBA) in June 2009. The funding for the 15 members will be on the same basis as has been the case for recent At-Large travel to ICANN meetings: * Hotel * Per-Diem * Airfare Of course, all the RALOs will be meeting during this fiscal year as a part of the Summit, and of course ALAC members will attend the Summit as well. The result is that overall, At-Large travel is considerably increased for this FY over that provided for previous years. To compare it in terms of the number of attendees, see below: FY 2008: 35 At-Large attendees funded per ICANN meeting = 105 persons total FY 2009: 15 At-Large attendees at 2 meetings plus up to approximately 105 attendees at one meeting = up to 135 attendees Please let me know if you have questions. -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA DD: +1 (310) 578-8637 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
For At-Large travel in FY 2009, in addition to funding the At-Large Summit, ICANN will be funding the 15 members of the ALAC to attend the Cairo meeting and the meeting being held in the Asia-Pacific region (location TBA) in June 2009.
Will the RALO secretariats, chairs and ALAC liaisons also be attending?
The funding for the 15 members will be on the same basis as has been the case for recent At-Large travel to ICANN meetings:
* Hotel * Per-Diem * Airfare
Of course, all the RALOs will be meeting during this fiscal year as a part of the Summit, and of course ALAC members will attend the Summit as well.
This is all stating the obvious. It also conveniently ignores that fact that in calendar 2009 there will be no F2F meeting for either NARALO or LACRALO since there is no ICANN meeting held in the Americas this year. The possibility of having regional meetings was put on hold because of the possibility that the Summit would happen this year.
The result is that overall, At-Large travel is considerably increased for this FY over that provided for previous years. "Considerably"? By your own estimate, the increase would be a MAXIMUM of 28% over the previous year.
And then the FY2010 amount would be far, far lower ... dramatically lower than the FY2008 amount. So there would be a short term spike followed by a long-term reduction. Future years will be funded far less than present and previous ones. Repeating the obvious point (that the Summit creates a one-time surge in travel cost) cannot obfuscate the fact that the new travel policy is designed to outlast the Summit and is a long-term cutback. The presence of a Summit does not magically diminish the value and importance of having Chairs, Secretariats and Liaisons funded for regular meetings, nor does it justify halving the funding of elected ALAC member attendance. And at a time when RALO outreach is desperately needed (how many ALSs have joined in the past year?), that resource (ie, regional F2F meetings) is being cut too.
To compare it in terms of the number of attendees, see below:
FY 2008: 35 At-Large attendees funded per ICANN meeting = 105 persons total FY 2009: 15 At-Large attendees at 2 meetings plus up to approximately 105 attendees at one meeting = up to 135 attendees
Since you insist on belabouring this point, why stop at 2009? Let's examine at what the policy will do the following year (and every year subsequent): FY 2010: 10 At-Large attendees (5 NomComms + 50% of the rest of ALAC) funded per meeting = 30 persons total FY 2011: 10 At-Large attendees (5 NomComms + 50% of the rest of ALAC) funded per meeting = 30 persons total ... and so on... So... we go from 105, to 135, to 30, and set to remain at 30 for subsequent years. That means that after a one-year spike, At-Large suffers a long-term reduction of travel funding of 72%. The "horror excesses" of the Summit are more than recouped the very next year thanks to these cuts.
Please let me know if you have questions.
- How can anyone supposedly supporting the activities of At-Large defend a 72% resource reduction at this crucial stage in its evolution? - Why is the one-time Summit (some spike -- a _maximum_ 28% over 2008) brought up as justification for such long-term resource slashing? - Can we keep the status quo if we cancel the Summit? (If that is the main reason for the long term cut then perhaps we should reconsider the penalty that the Summit would exact on At-Large's long-term effectiveness.) (And if the answer to the above is "no", then for heaven's sake stop linking the Summit to the long-term cutback.) - Evan
Dear Evan, see inline comments below (easier to follow) On 14/08/2008 10:23, "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> wrote: Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
For At-Large travel in FY 2009, in addition to funding the At-Large Summit, ICANN will be funding the 15 members of the ALAC to attend the Cairo meeting and the meeting being held in the Asia-Pacific region (location TBA) in June 2009.
Will the RALO secretariats, chairs and ALAC liaisons also be attending? Funding is available for 15 persons only. If some members of ALAC wished to waive attendance for a meeting in favour of a Secretariat member, I'm sure that ALAC and the community could decide upon some different allocation methodology for the 15 funded spots (that's a part of the travel framework for the other parts of the community who are receiving funding after all).
The funding for the 15 members will be on the same basis as has been the case for recent At-Large travel to ICANN meetings:
* Hotel * Per-Diem * Airfare
Of course, all the RALOs will be meeting during this fiscal year as a part of the Summit, and of course ALAC members will attend the Summit as well.
This is all stating the obvious. It also conveniently ignores that fact that in calendar 2009 there will be no F2F meeting for either NARALO or LACRALO since there is no ICANN meeting held in the Americas this year. The possibility of having regional meetings was put on hold because of the possibility that the Summit would happen this year. That is indeed the case, however, it was always clearly stated that the request to hold regional meetings was going to be decided in connection with the summit request, since of course the regions would all get to meet face-to-face at the Summit. ICANN runs on a financial year that is not a calendar year, as you know.
The result is that overall, At-Large travel is considerably increased for this FY over that provided for previous years. "Considerably"? By your own estimate, the increase would be a MAXIMUM of 28% over the previous year.
A 28% increase doesn't seem small to me but I accept you and possibly others may disagree. And then the FY2010 amount would be far, far lower ... dramatically lower than the FY2008 amount. So there would be a short term spike followed by a long-term reduction. Future years will be funded far less than present and previous ones. That is indeed presently the situation. I would reiterate that the entire travel framework is to be reviewed at the end of this FY to see if it needs amendment, so the situation for the next FY is not at all set in stone or certain. Repeating the obvious point (that the Summit creates a one-time surge in travel cost) cannot obfuscate the fact that the new travel policy is designed to outlast the Summit and is a long-term cutback. The presence of a Summit does not magically diminish the value and importance of having Chairs, Secretariats and Liaisons funded for regular meetings, nor does it justify halving the funding of elected ALAC member attendance. And at a time when RALO outreach is desperately needed (how many ALSs have joined in the past year?), that resource (ie, regional F2F meetings) is being cut too. I completely understand what you are saying. I hope that you also understand that in trying to provide more travel support overall to the whole ICANN community, it was always highly likely that the one community that received considerable support would end up receiving less in order to help other communities receive more. I know that you and others in At-Large view this community as having characteristics different from other stakeholder groups, in particular commercial stakeholders, and that this uniqueness merits different and greater support for attendance at ICANN meetings. Doug is trying to create a predictable, transparent, and reasonable travel framework for all volunteers and as has been said in the announcement he understands that there is no way that doing this will please everyone.
To compare it in terms of the number of attendees, see below:
FY 2008: 35 At-Large attendees funded per ICANN meeting = 105 persons total FY 2009: 15 At-Large attendees at 2 meetings plus up to approximately 105 attendees at one meeting = up to 135 attendees
Since you insist on belabouring this point, why stop at 2009? Let's examine at what the policy will do the following year (and every year subsequent): FY 2010: 10 At-Large attendees (5 NomComms + 50% of the rest of ALAC) funded per meeting = 30 persons total FY 2011: 10 At-Large attendees (5 NomComms + 50% of the rest of ALAC) funded per meeting = 30 persons total ... and so on... So... we go from 105, to 135, to 30, and set to remain at 30 for subsequent years. That means that after a one-year spike, At-Large suffers a long-term reduction of travel funding of 72%. The "horror excesses" of the Summit are more than recouped the very next year thanks to these cuts. Those numbers would indeed be accurate if the review of the travel framework at the end of this FY does not change anything.
Please let me know if you have questions.
- How can anyone supposedly supporting the activities of At-Large defend a 72% resource reduction at this crucial stage in its evolution? I'm simply trying to explain things since questions are arising. The reduction you mention would only be the case if the review at the end of the year left everything exactly as it is today. - Why is the one-time Summit (some spike -- a _maximum_ 28% over 2008) brought up as justification for such long-term resource slashing? If I somehow implied that the Summit justifies anything then I'm sorry as that's not what I was trying to do at all. The Summit is the Summit. It is a standalone event. The travel support being provided for the other meetings this FY is greater for ALAC than for the other communities receiving support, though it is indeed correct that if nothing changes, that support would decrease in the following FY. What I would suggest is that the community has the rest of this FY to socialise the rationale for a different travel regime for At-Large for the next FY. Who knows? It is even possible that some of the other communities receiving support will wish to see a different allocation of resources in the next budget, which would change the travel support that various communities receive. There is a year in which this community can engage with others on this subject. - Can we keep the status quo if we cancel the Summit? (If that is the main reason for the long term cut then perhaps we should reconsider the penalty that the Summit would exact on At-Large's long-term effectiveness.) The Summit and the travel framework are completely separate things. (And if the answer to the above is "no", then for heaven's sake stop linking the Summit to the long-term cutback.) - Evan _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA DD: +1 (310) 578-8637 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
Funding is available for 15 persons only. If some members of ALAC wished to waive attendance for a meeting in favour of a Secretariat member, I’m sure that ALAC and the community could decide upon some different allocation methodology for the 15 funded spots (that’s a part of the travel framework for the other parts of the community who are receiving funding after all).
You do realize, of course, that this means that the three key organizers of the Summit (Wolf, Darlene and myself) will thus not be at Cairo to do planning, engage other constituencies, co-ordinate with staff or conduct workshops. (While ALAC is not without its own non-performers -- whose presence would hardly be missed at a F2F -- it is unreasonable and completely unproductive to divert ALAC attention away from policy and towards arguing over who would be left behind.)
I hope that you also understand that in trying to provide more travel support overall to the whole ICANN community, it was always highly likely that the one community that received considerable support would end up receiving less in order to help other communities receive more.
Yes, I keep forgetting about how badly the IPC and Registrars needed ICANN subsidy in order to participate so they can protect their sources of revenue from undue public meddling. This policy worsens an existing imbalance under the newspeak of "fairness". It is also important to note that it has been Staff's sole decision to make travel funding a zero-sum game -- to increase one constituency's funding at the expense of another's. It could have easily chose to increase funding for other constituencies without diminishing the support for At-Large, and to advance that position to the Board. It's not as if ICANN's revenues are falling.
I know that you and others in At-Large view this community as having characteristics different from other stakeholder groups, in particular commercial stakeholders, and that this uniqueness merits different and greater support for attendance at ICANN meetings. Doug is trying to create a predictable, transparent, and reasonable travel framework for all volunteers and as has been said in the announcement he understands that there is no way that doing this will please everyone.
This of course, begs the question of who ICANN ultimately exists to please. I would submit that ICANN -- and certainly its staff -- have been following the lead of well-financed squeaky wheels and completely lost touch with the real mandate of whom ICANN exists to serve. Are you really telling us with a straight face that the participants from the commercial constituencies and contracted bodies must -- as a matter of ICANN official policy -- be treated identically to those who are purely acting out of public service, who were _actively recruited_ by ICANN itself? If such a position is what ICANN staff considers "reasonable", then this should indeed be welcome revelation to the JPA consultations. Increasing Institutional Confidence, indeed. It is reason for more DOC oversight, not more independence, if ICANN cannot be trusted to distinguish between its vested interests and its public interest. Proposing to subsidize its vested interests -- at the expense of the public interest -- is fodder for ridicule.
What I would suggest is that the community has the rest of this FY to socialise the rationale for a different travel regime for At-Large for the next FY. Who knows? It is even possible that some of the other communities receiving support will wish to see a different allocation of resources in the next budget, which would change the travel support that various communities receive. It is highly unlikely that other communities, that have been pushing so long to be funded, could be persuaded to reverse their recent gains. This is all the more unlikely considering that many of the new beneficiaries have a direct financial interest in minimizing the effectiveness of At-Large anyway; this policy serves them doubly well.
Who knows indeed. - Evan
Evan: I think your last paragraph has the kernel of the truth. We were "recruited" by ICANN and purposefully so. Now that that purpose is served, we are past our sell-by date. These kinds of corporate manoeuvrings are not extraordinary and I truly don't take it personal since the broad outlines have been visible for quite some time. What I personally find loathsome is this idea that somehow we here in the sticks can't figure it out! Carlton -----Original Message----- From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 09:09 AM To: Nick Ashton-Hart Cc: ALAC Working List Subject: Re: [ALAC] Further Information about At-Large Travel Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
Funding is available for 15 persons only. If some members of ALAC wished to waive attendance for a meeting in favour of a Secretariat member, I’m sure that ALAC and the community could decide upon some different allocation methodology for the 15 funded spots (that’s a part of the travel framework for the other parts of the community who are receiving funding after all).
You do realize, of course, that this means that the three key organizers of the Summit (Wolf, Darlene and myself) will thus not be at Cairo to do planning, engage other constituencies, co-ordinate with staff or conduct workshops. (While ALAC is not without its own non-performers -- whose presence would hardly be missed at a F2F -- it is unreasonable and completely unproductive to divert ALAC attention away from policy and towards arguing over who would be left behind.)
I hope that you also understand that in trying to provide more travel support overall to the whole ICANN community, it was always highly likely that the one community that received considerable support would end up receiving less in order to help other communities receive more.
Yes, I keep forgetting about how badly the IPC and Registrars needed ICANN subsidy in order to participate so they can protect their sources of revenue from undue public meddling. This policy worsens an existing imbalance under the newspeak of "fairness". It is also important to note that it has been Staff's sole decision to make travel funding a zero-sum game -- to increase one constituency's funding at the expense of another's. It could have easily chose to increase funding for other constituencies without diminishing the support for At-Large, and to advance that position to the Board. It's not as if ICANN's revenues are falling.
I know that you and others in At-Large view this community as having characteristics different from other stakeholder groups, in particular commercial stakeholders, and that this uniqueness merits different and greater support for attendance at ICANN meetings. Doug is trying to create a predictable, transparent, and reasonable travel framework for all volunteers and as has been said in the announcement he understands that there is no way that doing this will please everyone.
This of course, begs the question of who ICANN ultimately exists to please. I would submit that ICANN -- and certainly its staff -- have been following the lead of well-financed squeaky wheels and completely lost touch with the real mandate of whom ICANN exists to serve. Are you really telling us with a straight face that the participants from the commercial constituencies and contracted bodies must -- as a matter of ICANN official policy -- be treated identically to those who are purely acting out of public service, who were _actively recruited_ by ICANN itself? If such a position is what ICANN staff considers "reasonable", then this should indeed be welcome revelation to the JPA consultations. Increasing Institutional Confidence, indeed. It is reason for more DOC oversight, not more independence, if ICANN cannot be trusted to distinguish between its vested interests and its public interest. Proposing to subsidize its vested interests -- at the expense of the public interest -- is fodder for ridicule.
What I would suggest is that the community has the rest of this FY to socialise the rationale for a different travel regime for At-Large for the next FY. Who knows? It is even possible that some of the other communities receiving support will wish to see a different allocation of resources in the next budget, which would change the travel support that various communities receive. It is highly unlikely that other communities, that have been pushing so long to be funded, could be persuaded to reverse their recent gains. This is all the more unlikely considering that many of the new beneficiaries have a direct financial interest in minimizing the effectiveness of At-Large anyway; this policy serves them doubly well.
Who knows indeed. - Evan _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
For the record and speaking only for myself, Evan is pithily correct in his assessment. Carlton -----Original Message----- From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 03:24 AM To: Nick Ashton-Hart Cc: ALAC Working List Subject: Re: [ALAC] Further Information about At-Large Travel Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
For At-Large travel in FY 2009, in addition to funding the At-Large Summit, ICANN will be funding the 15 members of the ALAC to attend the Cairo meeting and the meeting being held in the Asia-Pacific region (location TBA) in June 2009.
Will the RALO secretariats, chairs and ALAC liaisons also be attending?
The funding for the 15 members will be on the same basis as has been the case for recent At-Large travel to ICANN meetings:
* Hotel * Per-Diem * Airfare
Of course, all the RALOs will be meeting during this fiscal year as a part of the Summit, and of course ALAC members will attend the Summit as well.
This is all stating the obvious. It also conveniently ignores that fact that in calendar 2009 there will be no F2F meeting for either NARALO or LACRALO since there is no ICANN meeting held in the Americas this year. The possibility of having regional meetings was put on hold because of the possibility that the Summit would happen this year.
The result is that overall, At-Large travel is considerably increased for this FY over that provided for previous years. "Considerably"? By your own estimate, the increase would be a MAXIMUM of 28% over the previous year.
And then the FY2010 amount would be far, far lower ... dramatically lower than the FY2008 amount. So there would be a short term spike followed by a long-term reduction. Future years will be funded far less than present and previous ones. Repeating the obvious point (that the Summit creates a one-time surge in travel cost) cannot obfuscate the fact that the new travel policy is designed to outlast the Summit and is a long-term cutback. The presence of a Summit does not magically diminish the value and importance of having Chairs, Secretariats and Liaisons funded for regular meetings, nor does it justify halving the funding of elected ALAC member attendance. And at a time when RALO outreach is desperately needed (how many ALSs have joined in the past year?), that resource (ie, regional F2F meetings) is being cut too.
To compare it in terms of the number of attendees, see below:
FY 2008: 35 At-Large attendees funded per ICANN meeting = 105 persons total FY 2009: 15 At-Large attendees at 2 meetings plus up to approximately 105 attendees at one meeting = up to 135 attendees
Since you insist on belabouring this point, why stop at 2009? Let's examine at what the policy will do the following year (and every year subsequent): FY 2010: 10 At-Large attendees (5 NomComms + 50% of the rest of ALAC) funded per meeting = 30 persons total FY 2011: 10 At-Large attendees (5 NomComms + 50% of the rest of ALAC) funded per meeting = 30 persons total ... and so on... So... we go from 105, to 135, to 30, and set to remain at 30 for subsequent years. That means that after a one-year spike, At-Large suffers a long-term reduction of travel funding of 72%. The "horror excesses" of the Summit are more than recouped the very next year thanks to these cuts.
Please let me know if you have questions.
- How can anyone supposedly supporting the activities of At-Large defend a 72% resource reduction at this crucial stage in its evolution? - Why is the one-time Summit (some spike -- a _maximum_ 28% over 2008) brought up as justification for such long-term resource slashing? - Can we keep the status quo if we cancel the Summit? (If that is the main reason for the long term cut then perhaps we should reconsider the penalty that the Summit would exact on At-Large's long-term effectiveness.) (And if the answer to the above is "no", then for heaven's sake stop linking the Summit to the long-term cutback.) - Evan _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
participants (3)
-
Carlton Samuels -
Evan Leibovitch -
Nick Ashton-Hart