Alberto: Here you are, presumably citing Argentine law: '*In Argentina, the Law on Consumer Protection says in his article 1. This law aims to protect consumers or users. consumer is considered to the natural or legal person who acquires or uses, free of charge or for consideration, goods or services as an end in themselves or for their family or social group.* *Here and all over the world, the end user has two defenders. One for when you have problems with goods or services; and we to defend their interests within ICANN.'* It would have been so useful if this bit of scholarship was brought to bear pertaining the accusation against Lance Hinds in the latest election [in] action in LACRALO. I take it you see the Ibero-American ALS as a defender of consumer and user rights in ICANN, yes? So now, in Argentine law, consumers and users are co-defined and are recognized as both "natural and legal persons". Think how much grief we could have saved ourselves with a little demonstration of leadership? You could have saved all of us listening to the dullard's view of the world that often masquerade as informed opinion in LACRALO. That the dullard's view originated in Argentina makes me doubly sure that what transpired in that botched election was a conspiracy under colour of ignorance. -Carlton Samuels ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Alberto Soto <asoto@ibero-americano.org> wrote:

Dear Alan, I did a semantic analysis, using the dictionary of the Royal Spanish Academy.

Public Sector: all public organizations and agencies, organizations and companies subject to them.

Private Sector: That is not public or state property, but belongs to individuals.

Society: natural grouping of people agreed that unit are different from each of the individuals, in order to meet, through mutual cooperation, all or any of the purposes of life.

Civil society, private sector, citizens and society relationships and private activities.

In the Latin world, we have two large sectors: the public sector (government) and the (non-governmental) Private Sector. In the latter enters the civil society and non-governmental sectors all we know.

This is quite consistent with the definition of the World Bank. Although I agree that it should include the end user.

In Argentina, the Law on Consumer Protection says in his article 1. This law aims to protect consumers or users. consumer is considered to the natural or legal person who acquires or uses, free of charge or for consideration, goods or services as an end in themselves or for their family or social group.

Here and all over the world, the end user has two defenders. One for when you have problems with goods or services; and we to defend their interests within ICANN.

But in my opinion, again, the end user must appear as such when the components of civil society are described.

Regards

Alberto

*De:* alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] *En nombre de *Alan Greenberg *Enviado el:* lunes, 31 de agosto de 2015 12:59 p. m. *Para:* ALAC <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Asunto:* [ALAC] At-Large: Part of the Private Sector? Part of Civil Society?

These two questions seem to be coming up regularly. The current draft proposal of the CCWG-Accountability refers to ICANN being leg by the "Private Sector (as opposed to the Public Sector - Governments), and includes us in the Civil society part of the private sector.

Looking at definitions can be useful. There are many of both terms.

The most common definition of the Private Sector says it is everything that is not funded or controlled by government. Many definitions even explicitly list individuals as part of it. That certainly includes us.

Some definitions talk about three groups, the public sector, the private sector (referring to for-profit organizations) and the "Voluntary Sector". The latter certainly includes the formal parts of At-Large, but really leaves individuals, who are no longer part of ANY of the sectors.

From my perspective, that means that if we are part of the "Private Sector", we better be explicitly listed as such.

I would appreciate hearing how these terms are defined in other languages and cultures.

The Wikipedia defines Civil Society as "aggregate of non-governmental organizations and institutions that manifest interests and will of citizens." Civil society includes the family and the private sphere, referred to as the "third sector" of society, distinct from government and business.

The World Bank has a more detailed definition: the term civil society to refer to the wide array of *non-governmental and not-for-profit organizations that have a presence in public life, expressing the interests and values of their members or others, based on ethical, cultural, political, scientific, religious or philanthropic considerations. Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) therefore refer to a wide of array of organizations: community groups, non-governmental organizations (NGOs), labor unions, indigenous groups, charitable organizations, faith-based organizations, professional associations, and foundations”.*

In both definitions, Civil Society is listed as essentially being defines as groups of one form or another. By those definitions, At-large and our components parts are certainly civil society, but the individuals whose interests we defend are not part of civil society per se.

Thoughts?

Alan

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