Re: [ALAC] ACTION: Draft of the ALAC comments to be sent to the CCWG
At 14/12/2015 11:14 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
Hello Alan,
To avoid repeating what may have been already said, is it possible to see the current updated draft i.e The version you intend to present to ccwg? Also I do hope that there will still be opportunity to review beyond the ccwg meeting.
That said, a few comments on your draft below(again at the fear of repetition):
- Spelling/grammatical checks needs to be done. Which I think Tim may have done justice to
- line 93: Supporting inclusion of human rights in the bylaw is too strong a statement. I'd suggest that it be conditioned on seeing the actual bylaw text. Maybe we should even ask ourselves whether any form of human rights text be included in the bylaw? If I were to answer, my response will be that; for a technical organisation like ICANN, I'd say NO.
I will re-word to say we support the proposed text as opposed to simply saying we support HR in Bylaws. Thanks for catching that. We can talk about whether we wantto withdraw that support at the IANA-Issues talk tomorrow.
- We did not indicate support/against for some of the recommendations? Is this just focusing on where we have issues? as I thought we should state our stand for all the recommendations, even if it's just 1 line of support.
The formal comment will follow the template and give our position for each recommendation (as my PPT did). This is just the problem areas. For the rest, we can discuss tomorrow at the IANA-Issues call, but see my comments below. We REALLY need to focus on issues that will prevent us from ratifying, not just tweak the proposal.
- I support the observation made by Olivier on budget veto and I believe it should be included.
Other comments on the proposal:
- As usual, I still have huge concern on the ability for appointing SO/AC to remove its board member.
I think we are beyond that now. Even the Board is agreeing...
- The ability for anyone(except the originator) to petition a bylaw implementation that results from PDP is IMO absurd as it seem quite top down. However I can live with it but suggest that the requirement for originating PDP support be moved to the "triggering review of petition" layer instead of "power exercising layer" in the escalation process(para76)
The Board has proposed re-wording to clarify exactly what the process is. I cannot see making a big fuss about at what point the SO originating the PDP can effectively kill this power being exercised. There are SO many things in both the CWG and CCWG which could have been done cleaner, but that is the by-product of MS and compromise.
- Removal of nomcom appointed board member should have same threshold of 4 support and not 3 as currently stated in row 107 (para90)
Do we really want to re-open this one?
- I know there was CWG requirement to veto ICANN budget, I really wonder if that included the IANA budget as well. So I am really concerned by the current wording of Para153/154. I mean, is there any reason why IANA would be made to lack funding considering this is the actual technical work of ICANN? I fear those paras if effected could have unintended consequences. The IANA serves not just the numbers community!
It was a requirement. This has also been raised by the Board.
- The threshold for removing entire board has to be absolute! i.e 5/5 and when it's 4 participating then it should be 4/4; if we are going to break the organisation, we should all take the responsibility. (Para176-181)
I note that we did not require 100% in the 2nd draft.
- Which work stream 1 is referred to in para267? Perhaps we need to clarify when work stream 1 ends and when 2 commence as I think that paragraph may be misplaced in its current form.
There is only one WS1. It ends when we issue the final proposal in a couple of weeks.
- Aside the overreaching discussion on "consensus requirement" GAC as an AC has been given more recognition by the virtue of having a formal board threshold to reject their advice. This in my view further gives formality/attention to GAC advice by the board. In view of this, I believe ALAC should request a former commitment from board to give our advice more attention as well. I don't know how we can say this in the comment period (without causing any uproar). Para274/5
There is already an ATRT recommendation that has been accepted that somewhat strenthens out position. In my mind, there is no way to re-open that discussion now.
Regards
"Sent from my handheld, do pardon any mistype ;-)" On Dec 14, 2015 7:29 AM, "Alan Greenberg" <<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote: The IANA Issues WG met on Friday to discuss possible issue on the CCWG-Accountability 3rd draft proposal.
The CCWG documents can be founds at <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145016>https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145016.
The document discussed at the IANA-Issues meeting can be found linked to the Agenda Item 3 of <https://community.icann.org/x/PIdlAw>https://community.icann.org/x/PIdlAw (entitled Review of Proposal and Potential ALAC Positions).
We need to send a summary of our comments to the CCWG today (in time for a CCWG meeting on Tuesday at 06:00 UTC). The attached document summarizes the issues as modified by the discussion during the teleconference.
Please send any comments in sufficient time for me to integrate them (as appropriate) into the documents. In particular, is there anything here that is counter to the tone or detail of the discussion?
The Final Public Comment must be submitted no later than 21 December. It will no doubt closely follow the attached document, but may well include other issues that come to light over the next days.
As ALL ALAC member will be asked to vote on the Public Comments and will ultimately have to decide whether to ratify the CCWG Proposal, this is both important and time-sensitive.
To the extent that is possible and you feel appropriate, please involve your RALOs.
Alan
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On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
At 14/12/2015 11:14 PM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
- Removal of nomcom appointed board member should have same threshold of 4 support and not 3 as currently stated in row 107 (para90)
Do we really want to re-open this one?
I believe so, nomcom appointees are somewhat selected by the entire community and its board member removal process should be evident of that as well.
- I know there was CWG requirement to veto ICANN budget, I really wonder if that included the IANA budget as well. So I am really concerned by the current wording of Para153/154. I mean, is there any reason why IANA would be made to lack funding considering this is the actual technical work of ICANN? I fear those paras if effected could have unintended consequences. The IANA serves not just the numbers community!
It was a requirement. This has also been raised by the Board.
Well I believe this should be fixed then.
- The threshold for removing entire board has to be absolute! i.e 5/5 and when it's 4 participating then it should be 4/4; if we are going to break the organisation, we should all take the responsibility. (Para176-181)
I note that we did not require 100% in the 2nd draft.
Well this is the 3rd draft and if i recall correctly, the thresholds were discussed in more detail in LOS(the breakout groups Cheryl coordinated) and that was after the 2nd draft was up for public comment. In any case, I apologize for raising this now(as its when i observed it) but I don't think it matters whether we raised it during 2nd draft or not. The point is that spilling the entire board is a Plutonic action and every part of the community has to sign-up for it! It even somewhat goes against the concept of appointing SO/AC removing its individual board (nevermind that I am against that concept). As this simply means that if ALAC for instance object to the board spill, then the board will still be spilled anyway, including the board member appointed by ALAC.
- Which work stream 1 is referred to in para267? Perhaps we need to clarify when work stream 1 ends and when 2 commence as I think that paragraph may be misplaced in its current form.
There is only one WS1. It ends when we issue the final proposal in a couple of weeks.
So i thought but here is the section that makes me wonder whether CCWG was referring to WS2 In *Work Stream 1*, include the review of Supporting Organization and Advisory Committee accountability mechanisms into the independent periodical structural reviews performed on a regular basis.
- Aside the overreaching discussion on "consensus requirement" GAC as an AC has been given more recognition by the virtue of having a formal board threshold to reject their advice. This in my view further gives formality/attention to GAC advice by the board. In view of this, I believe ALAC should request a former commitment from board to give our advice more attention as well. I don't know how we can say this in the comment period (without causing any uproar). Para274/5
There is already an ATRT recommendation that has been accepted that somewhat strenthens out position. In my mind, there is no way to re-open that discussion now.
Well if there is no way then maybe ALAC should send some independent letter to the board on this. Regards
Regards
"Sent from my handheld, do pardon any mistype ;-)" On Dec 14, 2015 7:29 AM, "Alan Greenberg" <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca > wrote: The IANA Issues WG met on Friday to discuss possible issue on the CCWG-Accountability 3rd draft proposal.
The CCWG documents can be founds at https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=56145016.
The document discussed at the IANA-Issues meeting can be found linked to the Agenda Item 3 of https://community.icann.org/x/PIdlAw (entitled Review of Proposal and Potential ALAC Positions).
We need to send a summary of our comments to the CCWG today (in time for a CCWG meeting on Tuesday at 06:00 UTC). The attached document summarizes the issues as modified by the discussion during the teleconference.
Please send any comments in sufficient time for me to integrate them (as appropriate) into the documents. In particular, is there anything here that is counter to the tone or detail of the discussion?
The Final Public Comment must be submitted no later than 21 December. It will no doubt closely follow the attached document, but may well include other issues that come to light over the next days.
As ALL ALAC member will be asked to vote on the Public Comments and will ultimately have to decide whether to ratify the CCWG Proposal, this is both important and time-sensitive.
To the extent that is possible and you feel appropriate, please involve your RALOs.
Alan
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At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALA...)
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