On Wed, 26 Jun 2019 at 10:38, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:

But to end-users? To people who will never buy a domain, many of whom will actually type a FQDN on their browser less than once a year? What is their stake in all of this? How are they impacted? These are questions that ALAC has rarely if ever truly tackled, and yet this is the small-c constituency we exist to speak for. We do a crappy job of it because we're constantly conflating what's good for domain buyers with what's good for the billions impacted by DNS policy. Our definition of consumers does not comprise the consumers of domain names, but the consumers of the products and services of domain owners. To the extent that we have constantly (and knowingly) blurred that distinction, we have abrogated responsibility to perform ALAC's bylaw-defined mandate.

SO: Evan I hear you, but I think if you read your statement above again, you might see that a typical end-user can actually be a registrant (and vice versa) so I really don't think one can make a clear distinction between the 2 as you seem to be attempting.

Sure we can. If we treat "end-user" as someone who has no need to buy a domain, we can treat that as distinct from registrants.

It's trivially easy for me to think of friends and family members who will never own domains, and that's in the rich world. I've also worked in refugee camps where Internet is crucial yet nobody even thinks of infrastructure, let alone domains, and all access is through apps so the DNS isn't even relevant to them (Apps could be talking to cloud-based servers using fixed IP addresses or random-string domains for all they know or care).

It is our task to separate end-users from registrants for the purpose of determining their interests. Registrants have many other voices within ICANN, Non-registrant end users have no other path but At-Large.


I'd love nothing more than a debate on price caps -- or any other substantive ICANN issue -- truly focused on the impact on people who don't and never will own domains.

SO: While debate on above is within scope, the impact on individuals who uses the domains is also not out of scope as they indeed are end users.

This IMO is an absolutely bogus argument.

EVERYONE in ICANN is also an end-user, from the most vested and corrupted interests on down. In fact, I famously recall a head of a large registry who routinely trolled the NARALO list, and when called out protested that he was an end-user like the rest of us.

We do not need to defend registrants, half of GNSO already does that. We are uniquely tasked with speaking for those who are completely outside the ICANN food chain. If we are incapable of finding a distinct voice, that's on us.

- Evan