2019 year Russian legislation on sovereign Internet

March 10, 2022

Dear all,

Thank you very much for all your comments and especially for all your
support!

I am sorry for the delay with my answers - I did my best to refrain from
making any hasty remarks.

Once again - we in Ukraine highly appreciate all help and support from
ICANN! We are buying just now StarLinks for ICANN money (to restore
Internet in places where telecom towers and cables were destroyed by
ruzzian bombs), ICANN experts are helping .ua heroes to keep safe our
cyberspace. Huge amounts of humanitarian help - once again thank you very
much!

But now I am not talking about Ukraine!

I am trying to draw your attention to ruzzian threat to "One World, One
Internet"!

ICANN Leaders are extremely concerned with the position of Russian
candidate for next ITU Secretary-General because of his
antimultistakeholder position. But what about the position of Russian
representatives at ICANN? First of all at At-Large?

I did not see any statement from their side.

I am sure that "One World, One Internet" is under threat. And I am ready to
discuss this issue in a separate discussion thread.

Ways to overcome this threat I propose to discuss in another thread.

I did not see the final text of the GAC communique. But I am sure that the
EURALO communique (which was written without invitation of representatives
of two Ukrainian ALSes) is not enough.

Kind regards from bombed Kyiv,
Oksana

On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 11:59 AM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <
at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:

> Hi Barry - and all
>
> I used to work for the IAEA, one of the permanent members of the 3166/MA,
> and prior to that for ETSI, a standardisation organisation. I would not
> claim to be an expert, but in a total of 21 years with them I have
> accumulated some knowledge.
>
> The ISO 3166 codes have been established primarily to be able to identify
> countries and territories - and later on their subdivisions. In the
> beginning, the primary criteria were sovereign countries (obviously) and
> territories that needed to be distinguished from the countries they
> belonged to because of geographical considerations. The latter criterion is
> the reason why e.g. French DOM/TOM have separate codes, while being part of
> France: essentially the UPU needed to be able to distinguish them from
> continental France (that, incidentally, had also a separate code). My wild
> guess is that this was the reason that supported a separate code for
> Taiwan, as the assignment of a code that did not in itself imply a
> political separation from mainland China (see the French DOM/TOM mentioned
> above) was nothing that China did worry about. Of course, this all predates
> the ccTLDs - actually, it predates the Internet.
>
> As for EU, also mentioned in this thread, nothing to do either with
> political plots, just that one of the users of ISO 3166 codes is the ISO
> 4217/MA, who maintains currency codes. When the European Currency Unit
> (ECU) was created as a sovra-national currency, it has been given an Xxx
> code “XEU", as the other sovra-national currencies, but when the situation
> evolved and the Euro was going to be established as European currency,
> replacing some of the national currencies, it should have been given a code
> in the standard form “ISO-3166” + 1-char currency code. So the ISO 4217/MA
> asked ISO 3166/MA to reserve a code for the territory of Europe. And this
> process started before ICANN.
>
> It was only later that the EC asked for a ccTLD. Prerequisite was the
> agreement of ISO 3166 to use the code. I don’t remember exactly when, but
> ISO 3166/MA sent a letter to ICANN stating that the 3166 EU code could be
> allowed “for all uses” - implicitly, also as a ccTLD.
>
> So, the decision was not autonomously take by ICANN, but went through ISO
> deliberations.
>
> Now to the question of removing the ISO 3166 code RU. Ever since the mess
> of the removal of the 3166 CS code, reallocated from the disappeared
> Czecho-Slovakia to the new born Serbia and Montenegro (Crna Gora in
> Serbo-Croatian) the ISO 3166/MA has adopted a process for removing codes,
> also because of the strong position of ICANN that, incidentally, was
> coopted as a non-voting member of ISO 3166/MA following that incident. For
> the anecdote, I had to go to see the IAEA representative at the ISO 3166 to
> explain her that the codes were used for ccTLDs and what were the
> unintended consequences of their decisions.
>
> So I would be extremely surprised if ISO 3166/MA takes any decision about
> the code RU. This said, the process is that a request can be presented by
> any member - for instance, ANSI or BSI could do it. I am sure that they
> won’t, though, following a similar reasoning that ICANN is using for its
> own actions.
>
> Cheers,
> Roberto
>
>
> > On 12.03.2022, at 07:45, Barry Shein via At-Large <
> at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Having looked into this my understanding is that there is an
> > ISO3166/MA (Maintenance Agency) consisting of 15 voting members and 6
> > non-voting members:
> >
> >  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166#ISO_3166_Maintenance_Agency
> >
> > ICANN for example is one of the non-voting members.
> >
> > The MA has the authority to add or remove entries in ISO3166.
> >
> > I don't know the exact process of how this might happen.
> >
> > For example who can initiate a request that ISO3166/MA add or remove
> > an entry.
> >
> > My impression is it would start in the United Nations though perhaps
> > the members can introduce an agenda item requesting addition or
> > removal.
> >
> > One problem is that it doesn't happen often, particularly if one
> > discounts essentially /fait accompli/ events such as when a territory
> > of a country becomes independent, or a recognized country changes its
> > name, or ceases to exist /de facto/ (e.g., Yugoslavia.) I would call
> > those easy cases.
> >
> > I don't know that any other cases have happened, where ISO3166/MA in
> > essence forced a change in ISO3166 particularly as a sanction.
> >
> > So for all the speculation it's possible no precedent exists,
> > Ukraine's request would venture into uncharted territory.
> >
> > One that does come to mind are Taiwan's (ROC) entries which I assume
> > the PRC objects to so were imposed by ISO3166/MA in the face of
> > significant objection. The PRC is a voting member:
> >
> >  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardization_Administration_of_China
> >
> > On March 11, 2022 at 10:28 at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org (Antony Van
> Couvering via At-Large) wrote:
> >> The premise of this argument is false. ccTLDs are not “sovereign.”
> ccTLDs are based on ISO postal codes and are managed by entities that serve
> the local internet community.
> >>
> >> That is why you have all of the following as possible ccTLD management
> arrangements:
> >>
> >> - non-sovereign territories that have a ccTLD (Antarctica)
> >> - territories of a country that have their own ccTLDs (Svalbard, Bouvet
> Island, Puerto Rico, many others)
> >> - integral parts of a sovereign country that have their own ccTLDs
> (most of the French outre mer)
> >> - ccTLDs that exist without the support, or with occasional support, of
> the government of a sovereign territory (Niue)
> >> - ccTLDs that have an arrangement with governments which do not manage
> them (USA, Germany, UK, many others)
> >> - ccTLDs that refer to extinct countries (.su)
> >> - ccTLDs that are run directly by governments either in name or in fact
> or both (France, most dictatorships)
> >>
> >> There are many variations. The premise is false, there is no such thing
> as a sovereign ccTLD.
> >>
> >>> On Mar 10, 2022, at 16:41, SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via
> At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Joanna,
> >>>
> >>> thanks for your e-mail.
> >>> As you know, very well ccTLDs are sovereign, there is not much more
> than an exchange of letters and a duty to co-operation between ICANN.org
> and the State, defined by ICANN technically and - concerning the openness -
> the State (e.g. China with its extensive controls).
> >>> International law applies, in particular Art. 17 UNCCPR, but
> enforcement is insufficient and not handled in ICANN, it is up to human
> rights fora.
> >>> For gTLDs, it is different - here we have full jurisdiction BUT the
> registry has to respect local laws. Thus, moving RU gTLDs to other
> countries with more liberal laws but still focusing on Russian civil
> society and economy, is a possibility.
> >>> Sure, ICANN should and is a strong supporter of freedom of
> communication - in a leading position technically - and - as a stakeholder
> - legally. National firewalls, controls and the like should be discussed
> but compliance assessment has to be left to other fora like that on human
> rights, in particular in the UN. You are much more an expert on this than
> me - it is up to the intensive and well known discussion on human rights
> and national sovereignty, going up and down in both directions. Sadly, at
> the moment national sovereignty is getting stronger.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Erich
> >>>
> >>> SCHWEIGHOFER Erich                       ao. Univ.-Prof. (UniWien,
> Rechtsinformatik, Europarecht, Internationales Multistakeholderrecht) Mag.
> rer.soc.oec.  Dr. iur.  Dr. rer.soc.oec. Lg.IntStud
> >>> (freigestellt für die Europäische Kommission, Rue de la Loi 130, 1040
> Brussel BE, erich.schweighofer@ec.europa.eu, Tel.  +32 2 29 52283)
> >>> Rechtsinformatik an der Uni-Wien        Sprecher des Vorstands der ARI
> Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik, Juridicum, Universität Wien  Vorsitz:
> iris-conferences.eu   Präsident:      WZRI    LII-Austria     CEILI    RI@
>   ADRI
> >>> Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung
> (auch Abteilung für Völkerrecht), Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, Zi. 546, 1010
> Wien AT, Tel. +43 1 4277 35305 (Anrufbeantworter)
> >>> https://rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at,
> https://rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY, https://iris-conferences.eu,
> https://wzri.eu
> >>> office@rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY; office@iris-conferences.eu;
> rechtsinformatik@univie.ac.at; Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at
> >>>
> >>> Bitte um Teilnahme und Beiträge:
> >>> IRI§22 https://iris-conferences.eu, Frühlingssemester: Event
> Rechtslogik in der Praxis Do 31.03.22, 16-19 Uhr (gemeinsam mit ReMeP)
> >>> Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu      Schriftenreihe Arbeitsgruppe
> Rechtsinformatik, rechtsinformatik.ACADEMY & IRIS-Journal:
> https://irisj.eu    PHAIDRA
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> Von: At-Large [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] im Auftrag
> von Joanna Kulesza via At-Large [at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org]
> >>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. März 2022 19:35
> >>> An: 'Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch'; 'Roberto Gaetano'; 'Maureen
> Hilyard'
> >>> Cc: nabok@thedigital.gov.ua; 'At-Large'
> >>> Betreff: Re: [At-Large] 2019 year Russian legislation on sovereign
> Internet
> >>>
> >>> Dear Alejandro and all,
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for this intervention. Many thanks also to Roberto for
> posing his question during the bilateral which I believe to have been
> answered, at least partially, by Manal. If more details on the GAC position
> regarding the multiple interventions on the war in Ukraine would be needed
> or any further conversation between the ACs would be welcome directly after
> the AGM, do feel free to let me know and I will be glad to facilitate. As
> noted during the session, any such suggestion will be duly pursued, based
> on mutual consensus.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding current open letters touching upon this issue, please kindly
> also note this one, shared today:
> https://www.accessnow.org/cms/assets/uploads/2022/03/Civil-society-letter-to-Biden-Admin-re-Russia-sanctions-and-internet-access_10-March-2022-1.pdf?utm_source=sendgrid&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletters
> (we seem to have parallel e-mail and Skype conversations on this). There
> was also a dedicated CPWG call on the issue, I am certain staff can assist
> to any details regarding the records of this call, if this would be useful
> to identify the community position.
> >>>
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>> Joanna Kulesza
> >>>
> >>> ALAC Liaison to the GAC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> On Behalf
> Of Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch via At-Large
> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 6:08 PM
> >>> To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>; Maureen Hilyard <
> maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>; At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> >>> Cc: nabok@thedigital.gov.ua
> >>> Subject: Re: [At-Large] 2019 year Russian legislation on sovereign
> Internet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I deeply deplore this impromptu decision against Roberto's question
> (it wasn't even a position!). It leads to the ALAC sitting on its hands
> waiting for OBE (obsoleted by events, or "fait accompli" to put it more
> crudely.)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At the very least, a process that does start and has clear follow-up
> should be agreed upon.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Also the open letter by a group of stakeholders regarding a
> multistakeholder process to "imposition of Internet sanctions" which is
> already circulating should enter the agenda and its dossier. It finds a way
> around ICANN's clear motives of restraint  (which I support) and opens
> other ways to act.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Alejandro Pisanty
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> De: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:
> at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> en nombre de Maureen Hilyard
> via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:
> at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
> >>> Enviado: jueves, 10 de marzo de 2022 06:40 a. m.
> >>> Para: Roberto Gaetano
> >>> CC: nabok@thedigital.gov.ua<mailto:nabok@thedigital.gov.ua>; At Large
> >>> Asunto: Re: [At-Large] 2019 year Russian legislation on sovereign
> Internet
> >>>
> >>> Dear Roberto
> >>>
> >>> While we share you concerns about the situation in the Ukraine our
> joint session this morning which has already required much preparation
> would not be a suitable time to raise the issue. However it is something
> that we can discuss post ICANN73.. Perhaps EURALO needs to lead on this
> being the region that has the closest contacts.
> >>>
> >>> M
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 2:20 AM Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <
> at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
> wrote:
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> I am wondering whether the GAC has produced any document about the
> Russian invasion of Ukraine, knowing that a motion has been passed even at
> the UN GA. I have not followed all the GAC sessions, as I had other
> commitments, but it would be good to have a report on that during our joint
> session. It would be strange - or even worrisome - if the GAC did not take
> position.
> >>>
> >>> One of the issues that we share with the GAC is the joint effort for a
> unique, interoperable internet and the way to use dialogue to achieve
> consensus: the recent actions ordered by Putin go against both these
> objectives, because war destroys communication links and make collaboration
> more difficult - if at all possible for quite some time to come.
> >>>
> >>> So the question to all of us is what we can do to stop this - and the
> GAC, being representative of the Governments, has authority to bring
> forward a position - and immediately afterwards what we can do to recover
> the damage unilaterally inflicted.
> >>>
> >>> I observe that it has taken decades for Germany for gaining the
> reputation that it had lost before and during WWII, and I wonder how long
> it will take to the Russian people, most of whom are not guilty of the
> actions of their leader, to regain the confidence of the international
> community.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Roberto
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 10.03.2022, at 12:14, Oksana Prykhodko via At-Large <
> at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> Once again thank you very much for all your support! We in Ukraine are
> really impressed by all your words and decisions - we urgently need your
> help and support just now!
> >>>
> >>> I will do my best to participate in the joint GAC and ALAC session
> today.
> >>>
> >>> On Monday I participated in At-Large Leadership session under bombing
> alert and with problems with Internet (just now I also hear bombing alert).
> >>>
> >>> That is why I am writing to you beforehand about my point for AOB:
> >>>
> >>> 2019 year Russian legislation on sovereign Internet and rumours that
> Russia will disconnect itself from global Internet on 11 March 2022.
> >>>
> >>> (you can read more about this legislation here:
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/31/russia-new-law-expands-government-control-online?fbclid=IwAR1S-u8b-fMzbzxrys-sIaZQxBL3ybHynGDhsDJkhhNc7k-a0oIRVrFZ0zY
> )
> >>>
> >>> Yes, I know that Russian representatives say that the news regarding
> the 11 March disconnection is fake, but they have said that all warnings
> from our Western partners on the Russian war against Ukraine are also fake.
> It's up to you: to believe them or not.
> >>>
> >>> From my side I am sure that they will not disconnect - not because
> they do not want, but after the failure with their famous Era cryptophones
> in Ukraine (
> https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/ukraine-russian-militarys-own-encrypted-phones-impacted-after-destroying-3g4g-towers-allowing-comms-to-be-intercepted/?fbclid=IwAR1KrIo_dkc1Ucuh6IPDdlZZz4VXc8SPSvXhRcSzLRkSakmkj29tRVQfsMc
> )
> >>>
> >>> Nevertheless, 2019 legislation went into force, and I am not sure that
> ICANN and the worldwide Internet community are ready for ALL consequences.
> >>>
> >>> In case I can not participate in the session in person, I would kindly
> ask Joanna Kulesza to be my proxy.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you very much in advance,
> >>> Kind regards,
> >>> Oksana Prykhodko,
> >>> director of iNGO European Media Platform,
> >>> EURALO ALS,
> >>> Kyiv, Ukraine
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> At-Large mailing list
> >>> At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:
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> >>>
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> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> At-Large mailing list
> >> At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
> >>
> >> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
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> >
> > --
> >        -Barry Shein
> >
> > Software Tool & Die    | bzs@TheWorld.com             |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD       | 800-THE-WRLD
> > The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
> > _______________________________________________
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Oksana Prykhodko

Javier Rua

Oksana Prykhodko

Roberto Gaetano

Javier Rua

Maureen Hilyard

Roberto Gaetano

Oksana Prykhodko

jkuleszaicann＠gmail.com

Oksana Prykhodko

Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch

jkuleszaicann＠gmail.com

SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr..

Antony Van Couvering

Antony Van Couvering

bzs＠theworld.com

Antony Van Couvering

Roberto Gaetano

Oksana Prykhodko

Remmy Nweke

Antony Van Couvering

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participants (10)