NYTimes : U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown
NYTimes : U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown By BEN SISARIO Published: November 26, 2010 "In what appears to be the latest phase of a far-reaching federal crackdown on online piracy of music and movies, the Web addresses of a number of sites that facilitate illegal file-sharing were seized this week by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Department of Homeland Security. By Friday morning, visiting the addresses of a handful of sites that either hosted unauthorized copies of films and music or allowed users to search for them elsewhere on the Internet produced a notice that said, in part: “This domain name has been seized by ICE — Homeland Security Investigations, pursuant to a seizure warrant issued by a United States District Court.” In taking over the sites’ domain names, or Web addresses, the government effectively redirected any visitors to its own takedown notice. “ICE office of Homeland Security Investigations executed court-ordered seizure warrants against a number of domain names,” said Cori W. Bassett, a spokeswoman for ICE, in a statement. “As this is an ongoing investigation, there are no additional details available at this time.” Read full article : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html Also, OSNews.com also reporting on the story says : "...The US has started seizing the domain names of various websites through ICANN.......The seizures come from the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, and cover about 70 websites relating to potential copyright infringement and counterfeit goods, among which is Torrent-Finder.com, a mere torrent search engine which does not host or even link to torrents; it displays content hosted elsewhere through embedded iframes. "My domain has been seized without any previous complaint or notice from any court!” the owner of Torrent-Finder explained TorrentFreak, “I firstly had DNS downtime. While I was contacting GoDaddy I noticed the DNS had changed. Godaddy had no idea what was going on and until now they do not understand the situation and they say it was totally from ICANN." Read OSNews.com article : http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers? ----- Dev Anand Teelucksingh
HI On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
seems to be...except that the DNS records point to what seems to be an outsourced entity, not to the Government themselves....very curious indeed. -- Cheers, McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
Another article : http://domainincite.com/icann-had-no-role-in-seizing-torrent-domains/ <http://domainincite.com/icann-had-no-role-in-seizing-torrent-domains/>Dev T On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 3:38 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
HI
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
seems to be...except that the DNS records point to what seems to be an outsourced entity, not to the Government themselves....very curious indeed.
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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Here is one domain that has been seized. http://torrent-finder.com/ More information on what is going on was pointed out to me by Christopher Parsons. http://rulingclass.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/the-background-dope-on-dhs-recen... Christian On 30 Nov 2010, at 15:23, Dev Anand Teelucksingh wrote:
Another article : http://domainincite.com/icann-had-no-role-in-seizing-torrent-domains/
<http://domainincite.com/icann-had-no-role-in-seizing-torrent-domains/>Dev T
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 3:38 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
HI
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
seems to be...except that the DNS records point to what seems to be an outsourced entity, not to the Government themselves....very curious indeed.
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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Wow, that's one mean looking eagle in the IPR Center's crest. - Evan On 30 November 2010 16:39, Christian de Larrinaga <cdel@firsthand.net>wrote:
Here is one domain that has been seized. http://torrent-finder.com/
More information on what is going on was pointed out to me by Christopher Parsons.
http://rulingclass.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/the-background-dope-on-dhs-recen...
Christian
On 30 Nov 2010, at 15:23, Dev Anand Teelucksingh wrote:
Another article : http://domainincite.com/icann-had-no-role-in-seizing-torrent-domains/
<http://domainincite.com/icann-had-no-role-in-seizing-torrent-domains/>Dev T
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 3:38 PM, McTim <dogwallah@gmail.com> wrote:
HI
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
seems to be...except that the DNS records point to what seems to be an outsourced entity, not to the Government themselves....very curious indeed.
-- Cheers,
McTim "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel
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Here is the complete official list: https://resources.govdelivery.com/resources/USDHSICE/domain_names.pdf -J
Seems like they did it following prescribed procedure. Good thing is any person aggrieved can always seek relief in district court. ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh <admin@ttcsweb.org>wrote:
NYTimes : U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown By BEN SISARIO Published: November 26, 2010
"In what appears to be the latest phase of a far-reaching federal crackdown on online piracy of music and movies, the Web addresses of a number of sites that facilitate illegal file-sharing were seized this week by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Department of Homeland Security.
By Friday morning, visiting the addresses of a handful of sites that either hosted unauthorized copies of films and music or allowed users to search for them elsewhere on the Internet produced a notice that said, in part: “This domain name has been seized by ICE — Homeland Security Investigations, pursuant to a seizure warrant issued by a United States District Court.”
In taking over the sites’ domain names, or Web addresses, the government effectively redirected any visitors to its own takedown notice.
“ICE office of Homeland Security Investigations executed court-ordered seizure warrants against a number of domain names,” said Cori W. Bassett, a spokeswoman for ICE, in a statement. “As this is an ongoing investigation, there are no additional details available at this time.”
Read full article : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html
Also, OSNews.com also reporting on the story says :
"...The US has started seizing the domain names of various websites through ICANN.......The seizures come from the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, and cover about 70 websites relating to potential copyright infringement and counterfeit goods, among which is Torrent-Finder.com, a mere torrent search engine which does not host or even link to torrents; it displays content hosted elsewhere through embedded iframes. "My domain has been seized without any previous complaint or notice from any court!” the owner of Torrent-Finder explained TorrentFreak, “I firstly had DNS downtime. While I was contacting GoDaddy I noticed the DNS had changed. Godaddy had no idea what was going on and until now they do not understand the situation and they say it was totally from ICANN."
Read OSNews.com article : http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
-----
Dev Anand Teelucksingh
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Here's another related article on the procedure : http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2010/11/seizing-domain-names-without-co... which raises a interesting scenario : many ccTLDs outsource the technical running of the ccTLD to third party registry operators, several of which are US based. Does the recent ICE seizures imply that ICE can issue a seizure warrant against a US based registry operator running a ccTLD and redirect a ccTLD to ICE's own servers without notifying the ccTLD or the ccTLD registrant? Dev Anand Teelucksingh On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com>wrote:
Seems like they did it following prescribed procedure. Good thing is any person aggrieved can always seek relief in district court.
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh <admin@ttcsweb.org>wrote:
NYTimes : U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown By BEN SISARIO Published: November 26, 2010
"In what appears to be the latest phase of a far-reaching federal crackdown on online piracy of music and movies, the Web addresses of a number of sites that facilitate illegal file-sharing were seized this week by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Department of Homeland Security.
By Friday morning, visiting the addresses of a handful of sites that either hosted unauthorized copies of films and music or allowed users to search for them elsewhere on the Internet produced a notice that said, in part: “This domain name has been seized by ICE — Homeland Security Investigations, pursuant to a seizure warrant issued by a United States District Court.”
In taking over the sites’ domain names, or Web addresses, the government effectively redirected any visitors to its own takedown notice.
“ICE office of Homeland Security Investigations executed court-ordered seizure warrants against a number of domain names,” said Cori W. Bassett, a spokeswoman for ICE, in a statement. “As this is an ongoing investigation, there are no additional details available at this time.”
Read full article : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html
Also, OSNews.com also reporting on the story says :
"...The US has started seizing the domain names of various websites through ICANN.......The seizures come from the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, and cover about 70 websites relating to potential copyright infringement and counterfeit goods, among which is Torrent-Finder.com, a mere torrent search engine which does not host or even link to torrents; it displays content hosted elsewhere through embedded iframes. "My domain has been seized without any previous complaint or notice from any court!” the owner of Torrent-Finder explained TorrentFreak, “I firstly had DNS downtime. While I was contacting GoDaddy I noticed the DNS had changed. Godaddy had no idea what was going on and until now they do not understand the situation and they say it was totally from ICANN."
Read OSNews.com article : http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
-----
Dev Anand Teelucksingh
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On 12/02/2010 12:18 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh wrote:
which raises a interesting scenario : many ccTLDs outsource the technical running of the ccTLD to third party registry operators, several of which are US based. Does the recent ICE seizures imply that ICE can issue a seizure warrant against a US based registry operator running a ccTLD and redirect a ccTLD to ICE's own servers without notifying the ccTLD or the ccTLD registrant?
Why not? If any part of the mechanism of resolving DNS names is within the jurisdictional reach of the enforcement agency one ought to have an expectation that the agency will exercise that authority. As I have described elsewhere there is a huge perception that websites and domain names are linked one-to-one. That is, of course, technical nonsense; the truth being that domain names point to collections of records that can contain all kinds of stuff. In that regard, taking down a domain name because a record references a website could be akin to seizing an entire Maersk container ship because one container on board is carrying fake Gucci bags. We are at real risk here on the net (many say it is not a risk but a present-day fact) in which enforcement agencies, going after real illicit activities, use simplistic techniques that are far overbroad and can cause vast collateral damage to lawful activities. --karl--
Exactly. It is also very unlikely that a takedown contract between a registry with a third party provider of seizure services (sic!) will fix in the subtleties needed to work out and pay for retaining the bits of a domains delegation and services not of interest from that which is. Christian On 2 Dec 2010, at 21:15, Karl Auerbach wrote:
On 12/02/2010 12:18 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh wrote:
which raises a interesting scenario : many ccTLDs outsource the technical running of the ccTLD to third party registry operators, several of which are US based. Does the recent ICE seizures imply that ICE can issue a seizure warrant against a US based registry operator running a ccTLD and redirect a ccTLD to ICE's own servers without notifying the ccTLD or the ccTLD registrant?
Why not? If any part of the mechanism of resolving DNS names is within the jurisdictional reach of the enforcement agency one ought to have an expectation that the agency will exercise that authority.
As I have described elsewhere there is a huge perception that websites and domain names are linked one-to-one. That is, of course, technical nonsense; the truth being that domain names point to collections of records that can contain all kinds of stuff. In that regard, taking down a domain name because a record references a website could be akin to seizing an entire Maersk container ship because one container on board is carrying fake Gucci bags.
We are at real risk here on the net (many say it is not a risk but a present-day fact) in which enforcement agencies, going after real illicit activities, use simplistic techniques that are far overbroad and can cause vast collateral damage to lawful activities.
--karl--
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As a person who has seized domain names through legal process, I must disagree with you. While the seizing1 of a domain name does effect all services with that domain name, it is not a risk of collateral damage to innocents. In your analogy, it is more like taking all containers which have stickers on the outside that states, "Property of Pirate Inc." It is also possible to take the domain name, and recreate the DNS records for the non-web services. Now if the police come in and seize the server, which could handle hundreds of other web sites, that would be a server of another color.
Why not? If any part of the mechanism of resolving DNS names is within the jurisdictional reach of the enforcement agency one ought to have an expectation that the agency will exercise that authority.
As I have described elsewhere there is a huge perception that websites and domain names are linked one-to-one. That is, of course, technical nonsense; the truth being that domain names point to collections of records that can contain all kinds of stuff. In that regard, taking down a domain name because a record references a website could be akin to seizing an entire Maersk container ship because one container on board is carrying fake Gucci bags.
We are at real risk here on the net (many say it is not a risk but a present-day fact) in which enforcement agencies, going after real illicit activities, use simplistic techniques that are far overbroad and can cause vast collateral damage to lawful activities.
--karl--
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On 12/02/2010 04:13 PM, Bill Silverstein wrote:
While the seizing1 of a domain name does effect all services with that domain name, it is not a risk of collateral damage to innocents. In your analogy, it is more like taking all containers which have stickers on the outside that states, "Property of Pirate Inc." It is also possible to take the domain name, and recreate the DNS records for the non-web services.
Let's take a simple case: Someone on facebook says they are selling Gucci purses. OK, take down facebook.com Simple.. Easy.. Fast But very, very wrong in terms of collateral damage. How can you know what other things a domain name represents? Remember domain names can contain information about geographic coordinates (lawful), text (I've got the Magna Carta in my DNS records, again lawful), VoIP service records (lawful), email exchange records (lawful), etc etc. One might argue, as I think you are arguing, that because so far we have mainly dealt with people who use domain names for exactly one overt purpose and that purpose is a website or email origination that is 100% illicit that every other accused domain name equally ought to be summarily condemned, tried, and executed. It is always easier to paint with a wide brush and accept the results than it is to do finely detailed work in which the results have few flaws. As humans we've been painting with a broad accusatorial brush for a long time. The progress of justice often goes hand in hand with the narrowing of the brush. Literature and history are filled with examples ranging from Othello's presumptions about Desdemona, the book "The Oxbow Incident", and the unrestricted torpedoing of passenger liners during WWI.
Now if the police come in and seize the server, which could handle hundreds of other web sites, that would be a server of another color.
Unfortunately "the police" (they usually aren't the kind of police who wear blue uniforms) do take entire server machines. Those of us who sometimes use cloud based hosting have reason to be nervous. I already left one co-lo facility because of the collateral damage done to our innocent machines by overzealous blacklists that included our machines simply on the basis of IP address proximity. I've spent some time last month discussing with various lawyers and law professors the idea that we need to create a law in the US (or in California) that would require those who assert internet reputations for use by others to conform to various standards of conduct. One of the mental models is the US Fair Credit Reporting Act that puts some (but not many) strictures on credit reporting agencies. Similar rules could be applied to those who operate on the net to assign status (like "saintly", "good", "bad", "evil", or "condemned" - or something more like a blacklist) for beyond mere personal consumption. --karl--
I saw that post as well. The quick answer is yes, the USG - or any other jurisdiction to which that business is domiciled - could. Any variance in the order means a trip to the district court...and I suppose a bit of lawyering to show standing. BTW, a similar kind of exposure occurs when third party host secondary domain name servers. Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh <admin@ttcsweb.org>wrote:
Here's another related article on the procedure :
http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2010/11/seizing-domain-names-without-co...
which raises a interesting scenario : many ccTLDs outsource the technical running of the ccTLD to third party registry operators, several of which are US based. Does the recent ICE seizures imply that ICE can issue a seizure warrant against a US based registry operator running a ccTLD and redirect a ccTLD to ICE's own servers without notifying the ccTLD or the ccTLD registrant?
Dev Anand Teelucksingh
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com>wrote:
Seems like they did it following prescribed procedure. Good thing is any person aggrieved can always seek relief in district court.
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh <admin@ttcsweb.org>wrote:
NYTimes : U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown By BEN SISARIO Published: November 26, 2010
"In what appears to be the latest phase of a far-reaching federal crackdown on online piracy of music and movies, the Web addresses of a number of sites that facilitate illegal file-sharing were seized this week by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Department of Homeland Security.
By Friday morning, visiting the addresses of a handful of sites that either hosted unauthorized copies of films and music or allowed users to search for them elsewhere on the Internet produced a notice that said, in part: “This domain name has been seized by ICE — Homeland Security Investigations, pursuant to a seizure warrant issued by a United States District Court.”
In taking over the sites’ domain names, or Web addresses, the government effectively redirected any visitors to its own takedown notice.
“ICE office of Homeland Security Investigations executed court-ordered seizure warrants against a number of domain names,” said Cori W. Bassett, a spokeswoman for ICE, in a statement. “As this is an ongoing investigation, there are no additional details available at this time.”
Read full article : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/27/technology/27torrent.html
Also, OSNews.com also reporting on the story says :
"...The US has started seizing the domain names of various websites through ICANN.......The seizures come from the US Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, and cover about 70 websites relating to potential copyright infringement and counterfeit goods, among which is Torrent-Finder.com, a mere torrent search engine which does not host or even link to torrents; it displays content hosted elsewhere through embedded iframes. "My domain has been seized without any previous complaint or notice from any court!” the owner of Torrent-Finder explained TorrentFreak, “I firstly had DNS downtime. While I was contacting GoDaddy I noticed the DNS had changed. Godaddy had no idea what was going on and until now they do not understand the situation and they say it was totally from ICANN."
Read OSNews.com article : http://www.osnews.com/story/24074/US_Government_Censors_70_Websites
So, how does that work? The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement served the seizure warrant on the gTLD registry and the gTLD registry then updated the DNS records for that domain name to point to ICE's DNS servers?
-----
Dev Anand Teelucksingh
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which raises a interesting scenario : many ccTLDs outsource the technical running of the ccTLD to third party registry operators, several of which are US based. Does the recent ICE seizures imply that ICE can issue a seizure warrant against a US based registry operator running a ccTLD and redirect a ccTLD to ICE's own servers without notifying the ccTLD or the ccTLD registrant?
IANAL but my understanding is that if you have any kind of biz incorporated in the US, you are bound to the code and regulations of the US for doing your biz, so my non educated answer would be: YES. Regards Jorge
http://thsnews.com/wikileaks-domain-taken-down-by-everydns-net/322282/ Not only Piracy sites, it seems... Tho, it is the registrar that decided on its own to shaft wikileaks, while registrars have a hard time to do it for scam, spam, and other nastier domains.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Amodio" <jmamodio@gmail.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Thursday, 2 December, 2010 8:12:15 PM Subject: Re: [At-Large] NYTimes : U.S. Shuts Down Web Sites in Piracy Crackdown
which raises a interesting scenario : many ccTLDs outsource the technical running of the ccTLD to third party registry operators, several of which are US based. Does the recent ICE seizures imply that ICE can issue a seizure warrant against a US based registry operator running a ccTLD and redirect a ccTLD to ICE's own servers without notifying the ccTLD or the ccTLD registrant?
IANAL but my understanding is that if you have any kind of biz incorporated in the US, you are bound to the code and regulations of the US for doing your biz, so my non educated answer would be: YES. Regards Jorge _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
participants (9)
-
Bill Silverstein -
Carlton Samuels -
Christian de Larrinaga -
Dev Anand Teelucksingh -
Evan Leibovitch -
Franck Martin -
Jorge Amodio -
Karl Auerbach -
McTim