Re: [At-Large] R: CCWG Accountability WorkStream 2 Questions on ICANN Jurisdiction
Roberto Will become worse for while, but we are also seeing huge reaction from inside US, so my expectation will be only mild changes on the Internet, if any ( more probably) , and in the free circulation of people to and from US. I do not believe that jurisdiction of ICANN will affect more than normally happens related to visa issues, other countries do have restrictions too and some are more unpredictable then US. If it will happen any relevant interference on Internet ( $ power will forbid, I believe)then will be time to rethink the jurisdiction. Till then I do not believe in huge impact. My 0,00002 cents Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. HAPPY 2017! On 2/7/17, 12:14 PM, "Roberto Gaetano" <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf of roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote: Actually, I was thinking in terms of similar lines, but also wondering whether under the Trump administration the jurisdiction issue would not become worse. R. > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large- > bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Robert Guerra > Inviato: martedì 7 febbraio 2017 15:02 > A: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond > Cc: ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide > Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] CCWG Accountability WorkStream 2 Questions on > ICANN Jurisdiction > > I would hope that Cuban and Iranian internet users reply to this > questionnaire. > > regards > > Robert > > -- > Robert Guerra > Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom > Email: rguerra@privaterra.org > PGP Keys : https://keybase.io/rguerra > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 6:35, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > on the ICANN evolution working group's last call ( > > https://community.icann.org/x/F47RAw ) we had a very healthy > > discussion on the topic of ICANN Jurisdiction which one of the CCWG > > Accountability workstream 2 sub-groups is addressing. The sub-group > > has sent out a short questionnaire to collect input from the > > community. This is attached. > > > > The questions are: > > > > 1. Has your business, your privacy or your ability to use or purchase > > domain name-related services been affected by ICANN's jurisdiction* in > > any way? > > If the answer is Yes, please describe specific cases, situations or > > incidents, including the date, the parties involved, and links to any > > relevant documents. Please note that “affected” may refer to positive > > and/or negative effects. > > 2. Has ICANN's jurisdiction* affected any dispute resolution process > > or litigation related to domain names you have been involved in? > > If the answer is Yes, please describe specific cases, situations or > > incidents, including the date, the parties involved, and links to any > > relevant documents. Please note that “affected” may refer to positive > > and/or negative effects. > > 3. Do you have copies of and/or links to any verifiable reports of > > experiences of other parties that would be responsive to the questions > > above? If the answer is yes, please provide these copies and/or links. > > 4. a. Are you aware of any material, documented instance(s) where > > ICANN has been unable to pursue its Mission because of its > > jurisdiction?* If so, please provide documentation. > > b. Are you aware of and able to document the existence of an > > alternative jurisdiction where ICANN would not be so prevented from > > pursuing its Mission? If so, please provide documentation. > > > > Please be so kind to let us know your answers. > > > > Kindest regards, > > > > Olivier > > (for the At-Large ICANN evolution working group) > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
<ALAC working List omitted, as I am not subscribed> I don't want to make this too long, but just to clarify, Trump's policy can affect ICANN directly and indirectly. Directly, if he decides to take action on the ccTLDs of "banned countries" - there has been already a quarrel a couple of years ago about Iran, that ended reasonably well with a positive judge decision. However, the question of the "ownership" of the ccTLDs has never been solved, and I could expect at least an enforcement of the law already in force (but enforced only mildly now) against the 5 "banned countries" (that are not the 7 arab countries that are the object of the visa issues, but the countries that are on the US blacklist and object of economic sanctions). Indirectly, targeting participants to meetings. And that is not limited to the citizen of the 7 countries that have the visa issue. On the Italian press I have read the case of the Italian citizen arrested in Chicago in transit because of a previous "suspect" Libyan visa. She has been handcuffed, not allowed to even go to the toilet for hours, and when finally released (she obviously lost the connecting flight) presented with a $2850 bill to cover the cost of the loss of time of the border control. I have on my passport a couple of visas that Trump might consider "suspect", so I am very happy that I do not have meetings in the US in the next months. As for transiting through the US when this is not my final destination, I have strictly avoided this ever since. Of course, there are other countries that are worse, no question about - so I hope everybody will understand that the attached picture, that is going viral on the web these days, is only a joke ;>) Cheers, Roberto
-----Messaggio originale----- Da: Vanda Scartezini [mailto:vanda@uol.com.br] Inviato: martedì 7 febbraio 2017 15:48 A: Roberto Gaetano; Robert Guerra; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Cc: ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] R: CCWG Accountability WorkStream 2 Questions on ICANN Jurisdiction
Roberto Will become worse for while, but we are also seeing huge reaction from inside US, so my expectation will be only mild changes on the Internet, if any ( more probably) , and in the free circulation of people to and from US. I do not believe that jurisdiction of ICANN will affect more than normally happens related to visa issues, other countries do have restrictions too and some are more unpredictable then US. If it will happen any relevant interference on Internet ( $ power will forbid, I believe)then will be time to rethink the jurisdiction. Till then I do not believe in huge impact. My 0,00002 cents
Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. HAPPY 2017!
On 2/7/17, 12:14 PM, "Roberto Gaetano" <at-large-bounces@atlarge- lists.icann.org on behalf of roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I was thinking in terms of similar lines, but also wondering whether under the Trump administration the jurisdiction issue would not become worse. R.
> -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large- > bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Robert Guerra > Inviato: martedì 7 febbraio 2017 15:02 > A: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond > Cc: ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide > Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] CCWG Accountability WorkStream 2 Questions on > ICANN Jurisdiction > > I would hope that Cuban and Iranian internet users reply to this > questionnaire. > > regards > > Robert > > -- > Robert Guerra > Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom > Email: rguerra@privaterra.org > PGP Keys : https://keybase.io/rguerra > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 6:35, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > on the ICANN evolution working group's last call ( > > https://community.icann.org/x/F47RAw ) we had a very healthy > > discussion on the topic of ICANN Jurisdiction which one of the CCWG > > Accountability workstream 2 sub-groups is addressing. The sub-group > > has sent out a short questionnaire to collect input from the > > community. This is attached. > > > > The questions are: > > > > 1. Has your business, your privacy or your ability to use or purchase > > domain name-related services been affected by ICANN's jurisdiction* in > > any way? > > If the answer is Yes, please describe specific cases, situations or > > incidents, including the date, the parties involved, and links to any > > relevant documents. Please note that “affected” may refer to positive > > and/or negative effects. > > 2. Has ICANN's jurisdiction* affected any dispute resolution process > > or litigation related to domain names you have been involved in? > > If the answer is Yes, please describe specific cases, situations or > > incidents, including the date, the parties involved, and links to any > > relevant documents. Please note that “affected” may refer to positive > > and/or negative effects. > > 3. Do you have copies of and/or links to any verifiable reports of > > experiences of other parties that would be responsive to the questions > > above? If the answer is yes, please provide these copies and/or links. > > 4. a. Are you aware of any material, documented instance(s) where > > ICANN has been unable to pursue its Mission because of its > > jurisdiction?* If so, please provide documentation. > > b. Are you aware of and able to document the existence of an > > alternative jurisdiction where ICANN would not be so prevented from > > pursuing its Mission? If so, please provide documentation. > > > > Please be so kind to let us know your answers. > > > > Kindest regards, > > > > Olivier > > (for the At-Large ICANN evolution working group) > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Plus 1 -- I entirely share Roberto's thoughts and concerns! Best, Wolf Roberto Gaetano wrote Tue, 7 Feb 2017 17:27:
<ALAC working List omitted, as I am not subscribed>
I don't want to make this too long, but just to clarify, Trump's policy can affect ICANN directly and indirectly. Directly, if he decides to take action on the ccTLDs of "banned countries" - there has been already a quarrel a couple of years ago about Iran, that ended reasonably well with a positive judge decision. However, the question of the "ownership" of the ccTLDs has never been solved, and I could expect at least an enforcement of the law already in force (but enforced only mildly now) against the 5 "banned countries" (that are not the 7 arab countries that are the object of the visa issues, but the countries that are on the US blacklist and object of economic sanctions). Indirectly, targeting participants to meetings. And that is not limited to the citizen of the 7 countries that have the visa issue. On the Italian press I have read the case of the Italian citizen arrested in Chicago in transit because of a previous "suspect" Libyan visa. She has been handcuffed, not allowed to even go to the toilet for hours, and when finally released (she obviously lost the connecting flight) presented with a $2850 bill to cover the cost of the loss of time of the border control. I have on my passport a couple of visas that Trump might consider "suspect", so I am very happy that I do not have meetings in the US in the next months. As for transiting through the US when this is not my final destination, I have strictly avoided this ever since. Of course, there are other countries that are worse, no question about - so I hope everybody will understand that the attached picture, that is going viral on the web these days, is only a joke ;>) Cheers, Roberto
-----Messaggio originale----- Da: Vanda Scartezini [mailto:vanda@uol.com.br] Inviato: martedì 7 febbraio 2017 15:48 A: Roberto Gaetano; Robert Guerra; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Cc: ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] R: CCWG Accountability WorkStream 2 Questions on ICANN Jurisdiction
Roberto Will become worse for while, but we are also seeing huge reaction from inside US, so my expectation will be only mild changes on the Internet, if any ( more probably) , and in the free circulation of people to and from US. I do not believe that jurisdiction of ICANN will affect more than normally happens related to visa issues, other countries do have restrictions too and some are more unpredictable then US. If it will happen any relevant interference on Internet ( $ power will forbid, I believe)then will be time to rethink the jurisdiction. Till then I do not believe in huge impact. My 0,00002 cents
Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. HAPPY 2017!
On 2/7/17, 12:14 PM, "Roberto Gaetano" <at-large-bounces@atlarge- lists.icann.org on behalf of roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
Actually, I was thinking in terms of similar lines, but also wondering whether under the Trump administration the jurisdiction issue would not become worse. R.
> -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large- > bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Robert Guerra > Inviato: martedì 7 febbraio 2017 15:02 > A: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond > Cc: ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide > Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] CCWG Accountability WorkStream 2 Questions on > ICANN Jurisdiction > > I would hope that Cuban and Iranian internet users reply to this > questionnaire. > > regards > > Robert > > -- > Robert Guerra > Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom > Email: rguerra@privaterra.org > PGP Keys : https://keybase.io/rguerra > > On 7 Feb 2017, at 6:35, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > on the ICANN evolution working group's last call ( > > https://community.icann.org/x/F47RAw ) we had a very healthy > > discussion on the topic of ICANN Jurisdiction which one of the CCWG > > Accountability workstream 2 sub-groups is addressing. The sub-group > > has sent out a short questionnaire to collect input from the > > community. This is attached. > > > > The questions are: > > > > 1. Has your business, your privacy or your ability to use or purchase > > domain name-related services been affected by ICANN's jurisdiction* in > > any way? > > If the answer is Yes, please describe specific cases, situations or > > incidents, including the date, the parties involved, and links to any > > relevant documents. Please note that “affected” may refer to positive > > and/or negative effects. > > 2. Has ICANN's jurisdiction* affected any dispute resolution process > > or litigation related to domain names you have been involved in? > > If the answer is Yes, please describe specific cases, situations or > > incidents, including the date, the parties involved, and links to any > > relevant documents. Please note that “affected” may refer to positive > > and/or negative effects. > > 3. Do you have copies of and/or links to any verifiable reports of > > experiences of other parties that would be responsive to the questions > > above? If the answer is yes, please provide these copies and/or links. > > 4. a. Are you aware of any material, documented instance(s) where > > ICANN has been unable to pursue its Mission because of its > > jurisdiction?* If so, please provide documentation. > > b. Are you aware of and able to document the existence of an > > alternative jurisdiction where ICANN would not be so prevented from > > pursuing its Mission? If so, please provide documentation. > > > > Please be so kind to let us know your answers. > > > > Kindest regards, > > > > Olivier > > (for the At-Large ICANN evolution working group) > > _______________________________________________ > > At-Large mailing list > > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig Swiss IGF http://swiss-igf.ch EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig
participants (3)
-
Roberto Gaetano -
Vanda Scartezini -
Wolf Ludwig