Proposed research on registrar transfer-away fees
Thanks to Danny Younger for starting this conversation. Danny has proposed that the ALAC initiate research on a specific, registrant-affecting question: What are the scope and magnitude of transfer-away fees among the various registrars? These fees, charged to domain-name registrants when they seek to leave one registrar for another, can lock registrants in to a registrar who no longer serves their needs (as has happened in droves with former Registerfly customers). High fees can also contravene the intent of the uniform transfers policy. We have seen little public information about these fees. So, here is a focused research task: For each registrar, ask Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change? After we decide whether these are the relevant questions, we should ask staff to contact all registrars for their responses, and/or review public information on the registrars' websites. If you're interested in this research, please respond to this message with your thoughts. --Wendy -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
I think it's good idea to organize this survey. If possible, could we also do some user survey on the same subject? Ideally, I like to make an online survey which costs minimum with some automatic tally feature. The challenge may be how to avoid spam or non-serious responses, etc. izumi 2007/3/8, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com>:
Thanks to Danny Younger for starting this conversation.
Danny has proposed that the ALAC initiate research on a specific, registrant-affecting question: What are the scope and magnitude of transfer-away fees among the various registrars? These fees, charged to domain-name registrants when they seek to leave one registrar for another, can lock registrants in to a registrar who no longer serves their needs (as has happened in droves with former Registerfly customers). High fees can also contravene the intent of the uniform transfers policy. We have seen little public information about these fees.
So, here is a focused research task: For each registrar, ask Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change?
After we decide whether these are the relevant questions, we should ask staff to contact all registrars for their responses, and/or review public information on the registrars' websites.
If you're interested in this research, please respond to this message with your thoughts.
--Wendy
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
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-- >> Izumi Aizu << Institute for HyperNetwork Society Kumon Center, Tama University * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org
I support this idea. Regards, Rajnesh Singh
2007/3/8, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com>:
Thanks to Danny Younger for starting this conversation.
Danny has proposed that the ALAC initiate research on a specific, registrant-affecting question: What are the scope and magnitude of transfer-away fees among the various registrars? These fees, charged to domain-name registrants when they seek to leave one registrar for another, can lock registrants in to a registrar who no longer serves their needs (as has happened in droves with former Registerfly customers). High fees can also contravene the intent of the uniform transfers policy. We have seen little public information about these fees.
So, here is a focused research task: For each registrar, ask Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change?
After we decide whether these are the relevant questions, we should ask staff to contact all registrars for their responses, and/or review public information on the registrars' websites.
If you're interested in this research, please respond to this message with your thoughts.
--Wendy
Sorry for my "jump-in" ... I'm following the list for quite a while but was tied to several activities around ISOC Belgium. I really support this idea too ... We, ISOC Belgium, were already thinking about gathering information from agents here in Belgium in order to identify the burdens and hurdles they actually encounter while registering and managing domain names for their customers ... If no problems pop-up, we will have the survey online in a week from now ... Perhaps this could be done in every country in order to have a regional appreciation and consolidate the figures by global region (Europe, Asia, America, ..). Just an idea ... Rudi Vansnick Chair ISOC Belgium Treasurer ISOC-ECC Rajnesh D. Singh wrote:
I support this idea.
Regards, Rajnesh Singh
2007/3/8, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com>:
Thanks to Danny Younger for starting this conversation.
Danny has proposed that the ALAC initiate research on a specific, registrant-affecting question: What are the scope and magnitude of transfer-away fees among the various registrars? These fees, charged to domain-name registrants when they seek to leave one registrar for another, can lock registrants in to a registrar who no longer serves their needs (as has happened in droves with former Registerfly customers). High fees can also contravene the intent of the uniform transfers policy. We have seen little public information about these fees.
So, here is a focused research task: For each registrar, ask Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change?
After we decide whether these are the relevant questions, we should ask staff to contact all registrars for their responses, and/or review public information on the registrars' websites.
If you're interested in this research, please respond to this message with your thoughts.
--Wendy
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Izumi AIZU ha scritto:
I think it's good idea to organize this survey. If possible, could we also do some user survey on the same subject? Ideally, I like to make an online survey which costs minimum with some automatic tally feature.
The challenge may be how to avoid spam or non-serious responses, etc.
Transfer-away fees are a ridiculous thing. I've just sent a message to the Board with a link that Danny provided, and others. As I told in the conf call, my objective would be for ICANN to start a working group to study the matter and deal with registrant protection on a systemic basis, rather than on a case by case practice. I think that it would be better than having to start a PDP whenever a specific issue arises... -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
(I am not a member of the NA alac list so not sending to that address) At 10:47 AM +0100 3/8/07, Vittorio Bertola wrote:
Izumi AIZU ha scritto:
I think it's good idea to organize this survey. If possible, could we also do some user survey on the same subject? Ideally, I like to make an online survey which costs minimum with some automatic tally feature.
The challenge may be how to avoid spam or non-serious responses, etc.
Transfer-away fees are a ridiculous thing.
Are they? Shouldn't fees be cost based? Registering a name is usually automated. That's why names are cheap. But what if you involve a human in the process? Some of these policies have developed over time, response to problems with deletes, other issues and other policy processes. Might be time to review the whole registration, transfer, "ownership" process. Adam
I've just sent a message to the Board with a link that Danny provided, and others.
As I told in the conf call, my objective would be for ICANN to start a working group to study the matter and deal with registrant protection on a systemic basis, rather than on a case by case practice. I think that it would be better than having to start a PDP whenever a specific issue arises... -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
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Transfer-away fees are a ridiculous thing. Are they? Shouldn't fees be cost based?
If only. If they were, the registry price for a domain would be 25 cents and dropping rather than six bucks and rising.
Registering a name is usually automated. That's why names are cheap. But what if you involve a human in the process?
That's entirely your choice. I resell Tucows' registration service, and I could easily automate all of the transfer away functions such as sending the authcode. Their registrar package is, I believe, the most widely used one in the industry, so if I can do it, anyone can do it. I don't automate transfers away, because I only do registrations for friends and FOAFs, and in my case most of the transfers away are mistakes due to fake invoices from DROA and the like. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://johnlevine.com, Mayor "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.
At 9:12 AM -0500 3/8/07, John L wrote:
Transfer-away fees are a ridiculous thing. Are they? Shouldn't fees be cost based?
If only. If they were, the registry price for a domain would be 25 cents and dropping rather than six bucks and rising.
yes, seems I am more than a little behind the times <http://blog.lextext.com/blog/_archives/2007/3/7/2788063.html> (CNNIC is lowering the price of .CN registrations to 13 cents).
Registering a name is usually automated. That's why names are cheap. But what if you involve a human in the process?
That's entirely your choice. I resell Tucows' registration service, and I could easily automate all of the transfer away functions such as sending the authcode. Their registrar package is, I believe, the most widely used one in the industry, so if I can do it, anyone can do it.
I don't automate transfers away, because I only do registrations for friends and FOAFs, and in my case most of the transfers away are mistakes due to fake invoices from DROA and the like.
Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://johnlevine.com, Mayor "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.
The transfer fees remind me of a similar case for italian banks: the fee to close the account. Roberto
-----Original Message----- From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Vittorio Bertola Sent: 08 March 2007 10:48 To: Izumi AIZU Cc: At-Large Worldwide; Danny Younger; na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Proposed research on registrar transfer-away fees
Izumi AIZU ha scritto:
I think it's good idea to organize this survey. If possible, could we also do some user survey on the same subject? Ideally, I like to make an online survey which costs minimum with some automatic tally feature.
The challenge may be how to avoid spam or non-serious responses, etc.
Transfer-away fees are a ridiculous thing. I've just sent a message to the Board with a link that Danny provided, and others.
As I told in the conf call, my objective would be for ICANN to start a working group to study the matter and deal with registrant protection on a systemic basis, rather than on a case by case practice. I think that it would be better than having to start a PDP whenever a specific issue arises... -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
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What's the best way to move this forward, at least to the question of whether it's something ALAC wants to commission? Forever, we've been saying ALAC should do research. This seems like a fairly simple question to ask and answer on the data side, though we'd still have work to do interpreting and reaching policy conclusions from it. --Wendhy Izumi AIZU wrote:
I think it's good idea to organize this survey. If possible, could we also do some user survey on the same subject? Ideally, I like to make an online survey which costs minimum with some automatic tally feature.
The challenge may be how to avoid spam or non-serious responses, etc.
izumi
2007/3/8, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com>:
Thanks to Danny Younger for starting this conversation.
Danny has proposed that the ALAC initiate research on a specific, registrant-affecting question: What are the scope and magnitude of transfer-away fees among the various registrars? These fees, charged to domain-name registrants when they seek to leave one registrar for another, can lock registrants in to a registrar who no longer serves their needs (as has happened in droves with former Registerfly customers). High fees can also contravene the intent of the uniform transfers policy. We have seen little public information about these fees.
So, here is a focused research task: For each registrar, ask Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change?
After we decide whether these are the relevant questions, we should ask staff to contact all registrars for their responses, and/or review public information on the registrars' websites.
If you're interested in this research, please respond to this message with your thoughts.
--Wendy
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
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-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: 718.780.7961 // fax: 718.780.0394 // cell: 914.374.0613 Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
It is my opinion that transfer-away fees border on monopolistic practices by registrars. I think any registrar who imposes such fees should be boycotted by the community. However, the question is, 'should we research' the situation. Of course. aloha, RJ Glass A@L On 3/27/07, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com> wrote:
What's the best way to move this forward, at least to the question of whether it's something ALAC wants to commission?
Forever, we've been saying ALAC should do research. This seems like a fairly simple question to ask and answer on the data side, though we'd still have work to do interpreting and reaching policy conclusions from it.
--Wendhy
Izumi AIZU wrote:
I think it's good idea to organize this survey. If possible, could we also do some user survey on the same subject? Ideally, I like to make an online survey which costs minimum with some automatic tally feature.
The challenge may be how to avoid spam or non-serious responses, etc.
izumi
2007/3/8, Wendy Seltzer <wendy@seltzer.com>:
Thanks to Danny Younger for starting this conversation.
Danny has proposed that the ALAC initiate research on a specific, registrant-affecting question: What are the scope and magnitude of transfer-away fees among the various registrars? These fees, charged to domain-name registrants when they seek to leave one registrar for another, can lock registrants in to a registrar who no longer serves their needs (as has happened in droves with former Registerfly customers). High fees can also contravene the intent of the uniform transfers policy. We have seen little public information about these fees.
So, here is a focused research task: For each registrar, ask Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change?
After we decide whether these are the relevant questions, we should ask staff to contact all registrars for their responses, and/or review public information on the registrars' websites.
If you're interested in this research, please respond to this message with your thoughts.
--Wendy
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
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-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: 718.780.7961 // fax: 718.780.0394 // cell: 914.374.0613 Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
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participants (9)
-
Adam Peake -
Izumi AIZU -
John L -
Rajnesh D. Singh -
RJGlass | America＠Large -
Roberto Gaetano -
Rudi Vansnick -
Vittorio Bertola -
Wendy Seltzer