Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> said:
I've heard a lot of people say that Intellectual Property & the work of the IRT fell outside ICANN's scope.
Someone asked this specific question & Jonathan Cohen, Senior Partner at Shapiro Cohen replied that this was false: according to him, the ICANN bylaws & principles mention protection of Intellectual Property & Marks, and that therefore, the IRT's proposals fall completely *in line* with ICANN's *core mission*.
I'd be interested if this was confirmed/denied.
The issue is more how can they proceed with the proposals they're presenting without addressing the fact that they're changing established legal traditions. Seth
Dear All. Legal traditions are that !!! old and tradicional law. World has changed and the paradigms the same ! We need to have new rules for new situations inside of the new Information Society and their new paradigms. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:58:30 -0400 From: seth.johnson@RealMeasures.dyndns.org To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> said:
I've heard a lot of people say that Intellectual Property & the work of the IRT fell outside ICANN's scope.
Someone asked this specific question & Jonathan Cohen, Senior Partner at Shapiro Cohen replied that this was false: according to him, the ICANN bylaws & principles mention protection of Intellectual Property & Marks, and that therefore, the IRT's proposals fall completely *in line* with ICANN's *core mission*.
I'd be interested if this was confirmed/denied.
The issue is more how can they proceed with the proposals they're presenting without addressing the fact that they're changing established legal traditions.
Seth
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:-) True. Just be sure as we proceed toward that halcyon future, that you don't provide tools for our oppression along the way. Government of, by and for the people requires first assuring that those entities that have no fidelity to any such structures, do not overrule us all. It's doubtful we'd disagree on this, though it's a distinction that needs to be understood. In the meantime, in this context, ICANN and the IRT are exhibit No. 1. :-) Seth -----Original Message----- From: carlos aguirre <carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com> To: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:05:14 +0000 Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Dear All. Legal traditions are that !!! old and tradicional law. World has changed and the paradigms the same ! We need to have new rules for new situations inside of the new Information Society and their new paradigms.
Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:58:30 -0400 From: seth.johnson@RealMeasures.dyndns.org To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> said:
I've heard a lot of people say that Intellectual Property & the work of the IRT fell outside ICANN's scope.
Someone asked this specific question & Jonathan Cohen, Senior Partner at Shapiro Cohen replied that this was false: according to him, the ICANN bylaws & principles mention protection of Intellectual Property & Marks, and that therefore, the IRT's proposals fall completely *in line* with ICANN's *core mission*.
I'd be interested if this was confirmed/denied.
The issue is more how can they proceed with the proposals they're presenting without addressing the fact that they're changing established legal traditions.
Seth
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Dear All. Legal traditions are that !!! old and tradicional law. World has changed and the paradigms the same ! We need to have new rules for new situations inside of the new Information Society and their new paradigms.
You are right Carlos, the world has changed and Internet has evolved as a platform where electronic commerce, social and political interactions take place and much more, and like any system that evolves over time not only the technology has to keep pace with evolution, services, rules and regulations have to adapt as well. But when you get into legal matters and the advancement requires modernizing the existing laws or creating new ones, is not ICANN's job, not mine, not yours not ALAC or any other body besides the law makers representing the people and for those like us that have the benefit of living in a democratic society, those law makers are elected officials. We can study the matter, generate discussions and exchange of ideas, and produce recommendations, but not make the law or try to exploit the loopholes on existing laws. Like any other organization, ICANN can (within what is allowable by applicable laws and the terms of the current agreement with the DoC/NTIA) change its bylaws and establishing the rules and regulations to govern itself, but by no means ICANN was created as a global governing body of the Internet. And if we are claiming to be a bottom-up organization we have to do a much better job to facilitate the participation to the "bottom" in the process. My .02 Jorge
Jorge. Is clear your position and I agreed with you. Isn't work of ICANN, ALAC or another into this organization to create law rules. wasn't my proposal. The idea is: ICANN, can help, giving some statements and procedures, obviously not laws,or promote those!. Just need to put head to work. For example, ICANN can decide and declare that Domain Names and Trademarks have nothing to do ones with others. With this mere statement you can eliminate a huge number of conflicts. My two cents. Regards Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:47:23 -0500 From: jmamodio@gmail.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Dear All. Legal traditions are that !!! old and tradicional law. World has changed and the paradigms the same ! We need to have new rules for new situations inside of the new Information Society and their new paradigms.
You are right Carlos, the world has changed and Internet has evolved as a platform where electronic commerce, social and political interactions take place and much more, and like any system that evolves over time not only the technology has to keep pace with evolution, services, rules and regulations have to adapt as well.
But when you get into legal matters and the advancement requires modernizing the existing laws or creating new ones, is not ICANN's job, not mine, not yours not ALAC or any other body besides the law makers representing the people and for those like us that have the benefit of living in a democratic society, those law makers are elected officials.
We can study the matter, generate discussions and exchange of ideas, and produce recommendations, but not make the law or try to exploit the loopholes on existing laws.
Like any other organization, ICANN can (within what is allowable by applicable laws and the terms of the current agreement with the DoC/NTIA) change its bylaws and establishing the rules and regulations to govern itself, but by no means ICANN was created as a global governing body of the Internet.
And if we are claiming to be a bottom-up organization we have to do a much better job to facilitate the participation to the "bottom" in the process.
My .02 Jorge
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This is exactly right. We also have a process underway that must be criticized in its own right. People who show up at these proceedings (now Tokyo and Abu Dhabi) have to question them on their foundations. A new initiative would enable a proper discussion of fundamentally different notions like yours. Of course, the GNSO went through a process that was much more participatory, and it was after that that ICANN overruled everything and set up the IRT. Incidentally, I got them to acknowledge in the NY meeting that the synthesis of input from these meetings would be conducted by a new body -- which we can push to make participatory -- and that they would accept other recommendations (not just agree with, disagree with, or agree with modifications). I don't think that was their plan at all, but we have it on record now. Seth -----Original Message----- From: carlos aguirre <carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com> To: At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:22:10 +0000 Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Jorge.
Is clear your position and I agreed with you.
Isn't work of ICANN, ALAC or another into this organization to create law rules. wasn't my proposal.
The idea is: ICANN, can help, giving some statements and procedures, obviously not laws,or promote those!.
Just need to put head to work.
For example, ICANN can decide and declare that Domain Names and Trademarks have nothing to do ones with others.
With this mere statement you can eliminate a huge number of conflicts.
My two cents.
Regards
Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:47:23 -0500 From: jmamodio@gmail.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Dear All. Legal traditions are that !!! old and tradicional law. World has changed and the paradigms the same ! We need to have new rules for new situations inside of the new Information Society and their new paradigms.
You are right Carlos, the world has changed and Internet has evolved as a platform where electronic commerce, social and political interactions take place and much more, and like any system that evolves over time not only the technology has to keep pace with evolution, services, rules and regulations have to adapt as well.
But when you get into legal matters and the advancement requires modernizing the existing laws or creating new ones, is not ICANN's job, not mine, not yours not ALAC or any other body besides the law makers representing the people and for those like us that have the benefit of living in a democratic society, those law makers are elected officials.
We can study the matter, generate discussions and exchange of ideas, and produce recommendations, but not make the law or try to exploit the loopholes on existing laws.
Like any other organization, ICANN can (within what is allowable by applicable laws and the terms of the current agreement with the DoC/NTIA) change its bylaws and establishing the rules and regulations to govern itself, but by no means ICANN was created as a global governing body of the Internet.
And if we are claiming to be a bottom-up organization we have to do a much better job to facilitate the participation to the "bottom" in the process.
My .02 Jorge
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Isn't work of ICANN, ALAC or another into this organization to create law rules. wasn't my proposal.
Fair enough.
The idea is: ICANN, can help, giving some statements and procedures, obviously not laws,or promote those!.
Just need to put head to work.
For example, ICANN can decide and declare that Domain Names and Trademarks have nothing to do ones with others.
Personally I'll tend to agree with the statement above, but we can't forget that trademark holders are also a constituency of ICANN and we need to consider their point of view as well, and restart the process and analysis without being single sided. This is a conflicting and complicated matter that have been discussed for more than ten years, perhaps we are still trying to fit a square in a round hole and since we are not able to find the way, now we pretend to change the process about how squares are created. I strongly believe that ICANN's future will be shaped by the outcome of this program, and so far, to be totally frank it does not look very bright to me. But we are in the middle of the evolution of an important organization and I'm still very enthusiastic that after all, we'll find the right path. Warm Regards Jorge
Hi Carlos - Simple statements looks like a progress, but what I believe we should do is clearly suggest WIPO to come out with new rules related to intellectual property more related to this new reality. We may publish a paper in several languages about it, may be someone in WIPO will read it.. Vanda Scartezini POLO Consultores Associados & IT Trend Alameda Santos 1470 cjs 1407/8 01418-903 Sao Paulo,SP. Fone + 55 11 3266.6253 Mob + 5511 8181.1464 -----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of carlos aguirre Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:22 AM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009 Jorge. Is clear your position and I agreed with you. Isn't work of ICANN, ALAC or another into this organization to create law rules. wasn't my proposal. The idea is: ICANN, can help, giving some statements and procedures, obviously not laws,or promote those!. Just need to put head to work. For example, ICANN can decide and declare that Domain Names and Trademarks have nothing to do ones with others. With this mere statement you can eliminate a huge number of conflicts. My two cents. Regards Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 08:47:23 -0500 From: jmamodio@gmail.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] New gTLD implementation Consultation Session London 15 July 2009
Dear All. Legal traditions are that !!! old and tradicional law. World has changed and the paradigms the same ! We need to have new rules for new situations inside of the new Information Society and their new paradigms.
You are right Carlos, the world has changed and Internet has evolved as a platform where electronic commerce, social and political interactions take place and much more, and like any system that evolves over time not only the technology has to keep pace with evolution, services, rules and regulations have to adapt as well.
But when you get into legal matters and the advancement requires modernizing the existing laws or creating new ones, is not ICANN's job, not mine, not yours not ALAC or any other body besides the law makers representing the people and for those like us that have the benefit of living in a democratic society, those law makers are elected officials.
We can study the matter, generate discussions and exchange of ideas, and produce recommendations, but not make the law or try to exploit the loopholes on existing laws.
Like any other organization, ICANN can (within what is allowable by applicable laws and the terms of the current agreement with the DoC/NTIA) change its bylaws and establishing the rules and regulations to govern itself, but by no means ICANN was created as a global governing body of the Internet.
And if we are claiming to be a bottom-up organization we have to do a much better job to facilitate the participation to the "bottom" in the process.
My .02 Jorge
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participants (4)
-
carlos aguirre -
Jorge Amodio -
Seth Johnson -
Vanda Scartezini