Cheryl and all, Thank you for your response, however inaccurate or misguided it is or may be. It's clear from your response, enough wasn't said, evidently and sadly... The remainder of my response/remarks/observations expressed is interspersed below. Cheryl Langdon-Orr wrote:

Nick / Matthias, perhaps you can you provide Mr Williams with a link to the ROP's on the wiki and any other pointer relevant to his inquiries...

This would be nice, thank you finally! In any event, these links should be easily accessible or a search facility for finding them should be available that actually works. ICANN's main Web site search facility doesn't still work properly as many have on more than one occasion point out on the GA forum before. Please review relevant archives, which BTW, also do not have a search facility or ability either.

At your convenience... Mr Williams seems to not to have a completely clear understanding of what the ALAC<=> RALO <=> ALS structure and interaction is, nor our specific role and purpose within ICANN or of how we conduct our business... so perhaps pointing him to the public information on that might be of use as well...

I understand the structure fine, no problems for me there. I also understand the "Role" as you put it fine as well. OUR business? Whom is OUR? How is that defined. As I understand it, ICANN has yet to approve any funding for the ALAC, the ALAC is not a registered NGO, not listed with any UN organization to date, and is not independently incorporated in any form.

Jeffrey, on the matter of my use of the term "In My Opinion" let me clarify that was specifically used as it is the terminology in the rules of procedure regarding list conduct, that we are referring to and you should note *have* previously and recently (since you have been posting messaged to the list) posted to the At-Large list.

I have posted to the ALAC list before, yes. Not to the STAFF list, and still am in wonderment as to how that is possible in that I did not subscribe to the "At-Large Staff <staff@atlarge.icann.org>" at any time.

As to the other point(s) you raise:- My copy to At-Large Staff is because they action any moderation I order, and I did NOT use 'reply all' as my reply is to you and c.c. to Staff for file and action if required; On the matter of what constitutes cross posting we (and here I mean myself and the ALAC) disagree, and if those parties you copied to are indeed 'interested parties' to the activities of the ALAC and its lists, then they are (or should be) subscribers to the relevant list(s) and indeed many are; On the other issues have no comment.

If your reply was not to me than why mention my by my name, both first and last in two separate sentences? I don't know for a certantity whom is or is not subscribed to which of the ALS's/ALAC lists, nor am I particularly interested exactly whom is or is not. I do know everyone whom has posted to the "ALAC <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>" which is listed on the ALAC web site as the "Global" list. However that is not all that important to me either other than if I do not have a entry for some "Interested Party" AND in my opinion the subject matter or content is or should be of interest to said "Interested Party", than by our mandate, I am duty bound to be sure they are "CC'ed" on my responses or originating postings accordingly, to ensure openness, transparency, and sometimes accountability, in accordance with the MOU with DOC/NTIA. BTW, "Interested Party" is defined by our organization, as any user or other stakeholder of the Internet that I or my staff are aware of and is not already forwarded through our internal network(s) accordingly and are not interested in joining directly the ALAC or ALS's as your filtering practices to the extent those are clearly understood or recognized as legitimate by our members and associates, of which all of our members are Domain Name holders AND users, and all of our associates are at least users. We prefer, as both users and stakeholders as is appropriate, to give our members and associates the CHOICE for themselves a broad range of specific filtering capabilities. These Email filtering capabilities include but are not limited to, content word filtering both inclusive and exclusive, content phrase filtering, subject line filtering, Email address filtering, key word filtering, nuance filtering, subject thread filtering/comparison.

Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Chair 2007-2008

Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:

...

Cheryl and all,

Really?! Well there wasn't any documentation on the ALAC web pages regarding such. Can you point me to where such is documented, i.e. where, whom conducted this/these "Elections", how they were conducted, where the ballot tally is, if any, how the users were notified of such, if such was actually done? Did you register this election with the FEC? If not, why not? If so, I shall shoot out a FOIA request for that data immediately! >:) I know none of our members were so notified, nor was I.

BTW as to "variance with the user community majority and other expert advise". What "Expert Advise" are you speaking of? From what I and my staff can glean, there are precious few "Experts" engaged with the ALAC or ALS's. And yes, we do have monitors of all the ALS's and have had sense such was initiated... As such some of these exchanges *May* find themselves on other non-ICANN related public open blogs, news sites, ect. at any time without my prior knowledge. So a word to the wise, be careful what you post. Enough said I hope...

And also, if sending something "In my own opinion" is a rule violation of which of those rules? Again, where are said rules documented? Link? I have ask for the link to on 5 different occasions!

...

:)

It's extraordinary I have yet to see or have received an answer to those previous queries of same! BTW, sending to individual Email addresses is not "Cross posting" as you stated, it is copying and/or "CC'ing", where CC is not equal to Cross post but is Carbon Copy as such. Ergo, if such a rule does exist, I didn't violate it as you state.

Further, as I did not sign up for the "Staff" email address, I was surprised my post went to that EM address. Not that I mind or care if it does or doesn't. I only did a "Reply ALL" and added other interested recipients as would or should be appropriate.

In closing, please be aware, that any and all posts that come to me that are ICANN related are copied to some 1.7m users by their own CHOICE and so archived for historic purposes accordingly. Those archives are encrypted of course so that errant parties cannot engage in revisionist historic endeavors as some of us have seen done before...

Cheryl Langdon-Orr wrote:

...

Jeffrey... Be advised of two (2) short points in reaction to this post...

1. ALAC has no 'self appointed leadership' we have elected leaders appointed under posted rules that are chosen with user community input... Unless you somehow define the ALS & RALO structure that contribute 2/3rds of the ALAC make up, as for some reason, NOT being representative and if that is the case you are at variance with the user community majority and other expert advise...

2. Your distribution list on this message is 'In My Opinion' a violation of our cross posting rule... So take this message as notice that... "if this transgression occurs again then you will be sanctioned further by:- a) greater moderation occurring to ensure that only messages that DO comply with our Rules of Procedure are forwarded to the list this will require a high level of human intervention and considerable delay in any posting can be expected.. OR b) removal from the list for a period to be determined by the Executive/ and or ALAC as a whole"...

Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Chair 2007-2008

Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:

...

All,

Indeed it is unfortunate that Robert had or is for personal reasons resigning. I believe it would be advantageous for all of the ALAC self appointed leadership to resign accordingly as they cannot legitimately represent the user community as they were not chosen or elected by the user community in the first place, and as such seemingly are in violation of the MOU.

At-Large Staff wrote:

...

Dear Community:

The Chair of the ALAC has requested that the At-Large Staff notify you that Robert Guerra has resigned his office as Vice-Chair of the At-Large Advisory Committee for personal reasons.

The ALAC wishes to convey its thanks for his work in this position until his resignation. Robert remains an elected Member of the ALAC from North America and the representative of At-Large to the Security and Stability Advisory Committee.

This situation is provided for in Rule 9.1 of the Rules of Procedure of the ALAC as adopted in October 2007:

³If for any reason whatsoever (including lack of quorum, lack or loss of eligibility requirements, resignation, or recall) an officer position becomes vacant before the end of the term, the Chair will promptly start an election to fill it, by sending an ³election call² message and starting the procedure from rule 9.1²

In conformity with Rule 9.1 an election call message from the Chair will be forthcoming, which will provide the relevant details of the process to elect a replacement co-Vice-Chair.

-- Regards,

ICANN At-Large Staff email: staff@atlarge.icann.org

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

Always diligent,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827

Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827