Re: [At-Large] Google Code Blog : A proposal to extend the DNS protocol
This seems to me, serving the purpose of only google and big companies. I though in these case they would use anycast (like the root servers) to provide answer from machines nearby. I'm sceptical about this whole geolocation thing, because the topology of the Internet does not follow geography and euclidian distance. Often I'm referred to servers in New Zealand which are badly linked to me, while servers in the US are more available to me in Fiji. Australia is then second. Also quid of IPv6? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dev Anand Teelucksingh" <devtee@gmail.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Friday, 5 February, 2010 10:57:36 AM GMT +12:00 New Zealand Subject: [At-Large] Google Code Blog : A proposal to extend the DNS protocol A proposal to extend the DNS protocol Wednesday, January 27, 2010 Today a group of DNS and content providers, including Neustar/UltraDNS and Google are publishing a proposal to extend the DNS protocol (http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-vandergaast-edns-client-ip-00.txt). DNS is the system that translates an easy-to-remember name like www.google.com to a numeric address like 74.125.45.104. These are the IP addresses that computers use to communicate with one another on the Internet. By returning different addresses to requests coming from different places, DNS can be used to load balance traffic and send users to a nearby server. For example, if you look up www.google.com from a computer in New York, it may resolve to an IP address pointing to a server in New York City. If you look up www.google.com from the Netherlands, the result could be an IP address pointing to a server in the Netherlands. Sending you to a nearby server improves speed, latency, and network utilization. Currently, to determine your location, authoritative nameservers look at the source IP address of the incoming request, which is the IP address of your DNS resolver, rather than your IP address. This DNS resolver is often managed by your ISP or alternately is a third-party resolver like Google Public DNS. In most cases the resolver is close to its users, in which case the authoritative nameservers will be able to find the nearest server. However, some DNS resolvers serve many users over a wider area. In these cases, your lookup for www.google.com may return the IP address of a server several countries away from you. If the authoritative nameserver could detect where you were, a closer server might have been available. Our proposed DNS protocol extension lets recursive DNS resolvers include part of your IP address in the request sent to authoritative nameservers. Only the first three octets, or top 24 bits, are sent providing enough information to the authoritative nameserver to determine your network location, without affecting your privacy. Read full article : http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2010/01/proposal-to-extend-dns-protocol.html _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann... At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Franck Martin <franck.martin@gmail.com>wrote:
This seems to me, serving the purpose of only google and big companies. I though in these case they would use anycast (like the root servers) to provide answer from machines nearby.
That is correct. In fact the sole purpose of the protocol is to identify where you are via your IP number. And that is a marketing plus for big business. There are no technical advantages to the protocol other then for targeted marketing. regards joe baptista
I'm sceptical about this whole geolocation thing, because the topology of the Internet does not follow geography and euclidian distance. Often I'm referred to servers in New Zealand which are badly linked to me, while servers in the US are more available to me in Fiji. Australia is then second.
Also quid of IPv6?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dev Anand Teelucksingh" <devtee@gmail.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Friday, 5 February, 2010 10:57:36 AM GMT +12:00 New Zealand Subject: [At-Large] Google Code Blog : A proposal to extend the DNS protocol
A proposal to extend the DNS protocol Wednesday, January 27, 2010
Today a group of DNS and content providers, including Neustar/UltraDNS and Google are publishing a proposal to extend the DNS protocol (http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-vandergaast-edns-client-ip-00.txt).
DNS is the system that translates an easy-to-remember name like www.google.com to a numeric address like 74.125.45.104. These are the IP addresses that computers use to communicate with one another on the Internet.
By returning different addresses to requests coming from different places, DNS can be used to load balance traffic and send users to a nearby server. For example, if you look up www.google.com from a computer in New York, it may resolve to an IP address pointing to a server in New York City. If you look up www.google.com from the Netherlands, the result could be an IP address pointing to a server in the Netherlands. Sending you to a nearby server improves speed, latency, and network utilization.
Currently, to determine your location, authoritative nameservers look at the source IP address of the incoming request, which is the IP address of your DNS resolver, rather than your IP address. This DNS resolver is often managed by your ISP or alternately is a third-party resolver like Google Public DNS. In most cases the resolver is close to its users, in which case the authoritative nameservers will be able to find the nearest server. However, some DNS resolvers serve many users over a wider area. In these cases, your lookup for www.google.com may return the IP address of a server several countries away from you. If the authoritative nameserver could detect where you were, a closer server might have been available.
Our proposed DNS protocol extension lets recursive DNS resolvers include part of your IP address in the request sent to authoritative nameservers. Only the first three octets, or top 24 bits, are sent providing enough information to the authoritative nameserver to determine your network location, without affecting your privacy.
Read full article : http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2010/01/proposal-to-extend-dns-protocol.html
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It's not about speed, it's about marketing. Google Caffeine and Google Local Search combined with Google DNS gives Google the ability to change search results dramatically based on the leak of that bit of info through the DNS. Chris McElroy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franck Martin" <franck.martin@gmail.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [At-Large] Google Code Blog : A proposal to extend the DNS protocol
This seems to me, serving the purpose of only google and big companies. I though in these case they would use anycast (like the root servers) to provide answer from machines nearby.
I'm sceptical about this whole geolocation thing, because the topology of the Internet does not follow geography and euclidian distance. Often I'm referred to servers in New Zealand which are badly linked to me, while servers in the US are more available to me in Fiji. Australia is then second.
Also quid of IPv6?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dev Anand Teelucksingh" <devtee@gmail.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Friday, 5 February, 2010 10:57:36 AM GMT +12:00 New Zealand Subject: [At-Large] Google Code Blog : A proposal to extend the DNS protocol
A proposal to extend the DNS protocol Wednesday, January 27, 2010
Today a group of DNS and content providers, including Neustar/UltraDNS and Google are publishing a proposal to extend the DNS protocol (http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-vandergaast-edns-client-ip-00.txt).
DNS is the system that translates an easy-to-remember name like www.google.com to a numeric address like 74.125.45.104. These are the IP addresses that computers use to communicate with one another on the Internet.
By returning different addresses to requests coming from different places, DNS can be used to load balance traffic and send users to a nearby server. For example, if you look up www.google.com from a computer in New York, it may resolve to an IP address pointing to a server in New York City. If you look up www.google.com from the Netherlands, the result could be an IP address pointing to a server in the Netherlands. Sending you to a nearby server improves speed, latency, and network utilization.
Currently, to determine your location, authoritative nameservers look at the source IP address of the incoming request, which is the IP address of your DNS resolver, rather than your IP address. This DNS resolver is often managed by your ISP or alternately is a third-party resolver like Google Public DNS. In most cases the resolver is close to its users, in which case the authoritative nameservers will be able to find the nearest server. However, some DNS resolvers serve many users over a wider area. In these cases, your lookup for www.google.com may return the IP address of a server several countries away from you. If the authoritative nameserver could detect where you were, a closer server might have been available.
Our proposed DNS protocol extension lets recursive DNS resolvers include part of your IP address in the request sent to authoritative nameservers. Only the first three octets, or top 24 bits, are sent providing enough information to the authoritative nameserver to determine your network location, without affecting your privacy.
Read full article : http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2010/01/proposal-to-extend-dns-protocol.html
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For anyone who thinks this DNS option would be a problem, I'd suggest it would be more productive to join the Namedroppers list, where DNS standards are developed. They're arguing about it right now. R's, John
How does one join this list. That would be helpful info. Joe Baptista On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:59 PM, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
For anyone who thinks this DNS option would be a problem, I'd suggest it would be more productive to join the Namedroppers list, where DNS standards are developed. They're arguing about it right now.
R's, John
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How does one join this list. That would be helpful info.
Hmmn. Does this mean there's no Google on your Internet? R's, John
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:59 PM, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
For anyone who thinks this DNS option would be a problem, I'd suggest it would be more productive to join the Namedroppers list, where DNS standards are developed. They're arguing about it right now.
R's, John
Hello John Levine A search for namedroppers pulls up archive index pages with no links to the list homepage or to pages with outdated subscription information. This is possibly the reason why you were asked to point to the subscription info. After some difficulty I found the page http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/dnsext-charter.html with this info: To Subscribe: namedroppers-request@ops.ietf.org Hope this would work. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 9:19 AM, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
How does one join this list. That would be helpful info.
Hmmn. Does this mean there's no Google on your Internet?
R's, John
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:59 PM, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
For anyone who thinks this DNS option would be a problem, I'd suggest it
would be more productive to join the Namedroppers list, where DNS standards are developed. They're arguing about it right now.
R's, John
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List join information: http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/dnsext-charter.html List archives: http://www.ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/ Internet draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-vandergaast-edns-client-ip-00.txt Note this is a joint submission of not only Google, but also Neustar/UltraDNS Patrick On 05 Feb 2010, at 04:49, John R. Levine wrote:
How does one join this list. That would be helpful info.
Hmmn. Does this mean there's no Google on your Internet?
R's, John
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:59 PM, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
For anyone who thinks this DNS option would be a problem, I'd suggest it would be more productive to join the Namedroppers list, where DNS standards are developed. They're arguing about it right now.
R's, John
-- Patrick Vande Walle Blog: http://patrick.vande-walle.eu Twitter: http://twitter.vande-walle.eu facebook: http://facebook.vande-walle.eu
On 5 Feb 2010, at 14:02, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:
List join information: http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/dnsext-charter.html
List archives: http://www.ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/
Internet draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-vandergaast-edns-client-ip-00.txt
Note this is a joint submission of not only Google, but also Neustar/UltraDNS
That Google would want this sort of thing I can understand, but what's in it for Neustar??
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Hmmmmm.....good question! Maybe some backend business connection.... Carlton =================================================== On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight < michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 5 Feb 2010, at 14:02, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:
List join information:
http://www.ietf.org/dyn/wg/charter/dnsext-charter.html
List archives: http://www.ops.ietf.org/lists/namedroppers/
Internet draft:
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-vandergaast-edns-client-ip-00.txt
Note this is a joint submission of not only Google, but also
Neustar/UltraDNS
That Google would want this sort of thing I can understand, but what's in it for Neustar??
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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-- +========+++++++++++++++====== Carlton A Samuels Education Technologies for Curriculum Development, ICT Policy, Internet Governance and Process Improvement
On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:49 PM, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
Hmmmmm.....good question! Maybe some backend business connection....
Neustar provides the DNS for .BIZ, .TRAVEL, .US, .AS, .FM, 137,000 2LDs under .COM, and a lot of other domains.
Let's not forget that this protocol opens up a lot of new marketing opportunities. The downside is it contributes to privacy issues. Of course anyone who uses the Internet should know there are no guarantees of privacy in networks. Privacy was not in the original design. And I expect Neustar and Google has some business opportunities lined up if this protocol becomes a reality. regards joe baptista
On 05 Feb 2010, at 17:47, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
That Google would want this sort of thing I can understand, but what's in it for Neustar??
Well, you need to ask them. The official IETF position is that participants to IETF WGs do it in their personal capacity. The fact most of them are paid full time by a company for doing exactly that, and submit documents that closely follow the company's strategy is a pure coincidence. :-) -- Patrick Vande Walle Blog: http://patrick.vande-walle.eu Twitter: http://twitter.vande-walle.eu facebook: http://facebook.vande-walle.eu
Possibly, Neustar has servers already developed for this purpose, pushing for the extesnion gives them a leg up on competition, being part of the process allows them to steer the boat in certain directions. -Mike St. John On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Patrick Vande Walle <patrick@vande-walle.eu
wrote:
On 05 Feb 2010, at 17:47, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
That Google would want this sort of thing I can understand, but what's in
it for Neustar??
Well, you need to ask them.
The official IETF position is that participants to IETF WGs do it in their personal capacity. The fact most of them are paid full time by a company for doing exactly that, and submit documents that closely follow the company's strategy is a pure coincidence. :-)
The official IETF position is that participants to IETF WGs do it in their personal capacity. The fact most of them are paid full time by a company for doing exactly that, and submit documents that closely follow the company's strategy is a pure coincidence. :-)
We should print a t-shirt with this statement !! Cheers Jorge
On 5 Feb 2010, at 17:52, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:
Well, you need to ask them.
The official IETF position is that participants to IETF WGs do it in their personal capacity. The fact most of them are paid full time by a company for doing exactly that, and submit documents that closely follow the company's strategy is a pure coincidence. :-)
ROFL Yes of course :) Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
participants (10)
-
Carlton Samuels -
Chris McElroy 786-317-8774 -
Franck Martin -
Joe Baptista -
John R. Levine -
Jorge Amodio -
Michele Neylon :: Blacknight -
mike st. john -
Patrick Vande Walle -
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy