Thanks, Seun, this is an excellent start, I will also have a look at the 2015 reports. I would also be interested in whether some analysis has been made to compare the local initiatives – I am sure that every country approaches this issue in a different way. Cheers, Roberto Da: Seun Ojedeji [mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com] Inviato: domenica 15 maggio 2016 17:27 A: Roberto Gaetano Cc: At-Large Worldwide Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] IGF Germany Hi, The URL below has references to national and regional IGFs: http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/77-igf-regional-events/igf-regional-and-natio... Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 15 May 2016 4:14 p.m., "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> wrote: Hi all. I have sent a specific message on this subject to the EURALO list, but I am realizing that what I am looking for is not limited to Europe, so I am replicating this to the global list. I am particularly interested in efforts to establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level. I understand that in Germany there is an ongoing effort to build this type of initiative. Is this correct? How can I get more information? Generally speaking, would it be a good idea to share the information that we have from different countries? Maybe there are some ALSes that work locally on this subject, and it would be good to know more about it. Cheers, Roberto PS: I know that our Armenian ALSes are active on this, and I am already in contact with them _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

Roberto, in many countries it is desirable to postpone the urge to "establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level." They may create capture targets with no benefit in exchange if done prematurely. That is the case in several Latin American countries where we have loosely organized working groups, and meetings we have chosen to call "Dialogues on Internet Governance", avoiding any premature crystallization and even the word "Forum." To the best of my understanding we started this trend in Mexico and it has had echo in Argentina. Fadi Chehade for a time tried to convince many, especially in governments, to emulate Brazil's CGI. The model may work well in Brazil, due to local circumstances and history (Vanda will tell us more - it was started by her in a visionary way in the Cardoso government period) but other countries have very different circumstances. In particular if many of the IG problems are being solved by relevant stakeholders on a heuristic basis, the more commprehensive structure may actually cause a wreck. Among other reasons: attempts to capture (by government or others), a scramble for budget and seats, lack of balance, lack of access to the actually relevant actors - briefly, an example: an ISP may or an NGO may need to send very different representatives to a meeting on spma than to a meeting on "right to be forgotten." Alejandro Pisanty - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Roberto Gaetano [roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com] Enviado el: domingo, 15 de mayo de 2016 11:15 Hasta: Seun Ojedeji CC: At-Large Worldwide Asunto: [At-Large] R: IGF Germany Thanks, Seun, this is an excellent start, I will also have a look at the 2015 reports. I would also be interested in whether some analysis has been made to compare the local initiatives – I am sure that every country approaches this issue in a different way. Cheers, Roberto Da: Seun Ojedeji [mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com] Inviato: domenica 15 maggio 2016 17:27 A: Roberto Gaetano Cc: At-Large Worldwide Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] IGF Germany Hi, The URL below has references to national and regional IGFs: http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/77-igf-regional-events/igf-regional-and-natio... Regards Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos On 15 May 2016 4:14 p.m., "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> wrote: Hi all. I have sent a specific message on this subject to the EURALO list, but I am realizing that what I am looking for is not limited to Europe, so I am replicating this to the global list. I am particularly interested in efforts to establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level. I understand that in Germany there is an ongoing effort to build this type of initiative. Is this correct? How can I get more information? Generally speaking, would it be a good idea to share the information that we have from different countries? Maybe there are some ALSes that work locally on this subject, and it would be good to know more about it. Cheers, Roberto PS: I know that our Armenian ALSes are active on this, and I am already in contact with them _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

I agree with Roberto concerns. To contribute to this exchange, I inform us that in DR Congo, we are able to implement the national IGF respecting Articles 72 and 73 of the Tunis Agenda So we have an executive secretariat, a national MAG where the government, private sector, universities, the technical community, some international organizations are members. We have set a ceiling of 30 members but we formed a 60-member database while taking account of the 26 provinces of the DRC. However, such a multi-stakeholder consultation framework can operate credibly if the official guardianship authority did not endorse. Thus IGF DRC has been endorsed by the Ministry in charge of ICT while recognizing the autonomy of this platform. Officially, we exist, but to raise funds for DRC IGF activities from local donors, and for opening a bank account, he was required us the legal character of this national platform. Following discussions between the actors involved in this process, it was requested to the ministry to make a ministerial order. The IGF DRC retains its independent multi-stakeholder character with a legal identity that allows us to conduct our activities at national level. *SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN* *SECRETAIRE EXECUTIF FGI-IGF RDC* *COORDINATION NATIONALE CAFECICANN/AFRALO Member* *ISOC Member* Téléphone mobile:+243998983491/+243813684512 email : b.schombe@gmail.com skype : b.schombe blog : http://akimambo.unblog.fr 2016-05-19 21:08 GMT+01:00 Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>:

Alejandro,

Maybe I did not make myself clear. I never advocated the **urge** to establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level. However, since I recognize that there are attempts to “establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level”, I would like to know what those initiatives are.

Also, I am with you when you claim, if I have understood correctly your line of thought, that it is not true that one size fits all. What I am looking for is to collect information about the different ways in which different geopolitical and social environments tackle this issue – including the “we don’t care” or “we do nothing” approaches, that are perfectly legitimate.

IMHO, the collection of this information goes exactly in the opposite direction of blindly endorsing Brazil’s CGI model as a universal model: it is just an attempt to understand what is already happening.

Cheers,

R.

*Da:* Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch [mailto:apisan@unam.mx] *Inviato:* domenica 15 maggio 2016 21:18 *A:* Roberto Gaetano; Seun Ojedeji *Cc:* At-Large Worldwide *Oggetto:* RE: [At-Large] R: IGF Germany

Roberto,

in many countries it is desirable to postpone the urge to "establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level." They may create capture targets with no benefit in exchange if done prematurely.

That is the case in several Latin American countries where we have loosely organized working groups, and meetings we have chosen to call "Dialogues on Internet Governance", avoiding any premature crystallization and even the word "Forum." To the best of my understanding we started this trend in Mexico and it has had echo in Argentina.

Fadi Chehade for a time tried to convince many, especially in governments, to emulate Brazil's CGI. The model may work well in Brazil, due to local circumstances and history (Vanda will tell us more - it was started by her in a visionary way in the Cardoso government period) but other countries have very different circumstances.

In particular if many of the IG problems are being solved by relevant stakeholders on a heuristic basis, the more commprehensive structure may actually cause a wreck. Among other reasons: attempts to capture (by government or others), a scramble for budget and seats, lack of balance, lack of access to the actually relevant actors - briefly, an example: an ISP may or an NGO may need to send very different representatives to a meeting on spma than to a meeting on "right to be forgotten."

Alejandro Pisanty

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM

Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico

+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD

+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ------------------------------

*Desde:* at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Roberto Gaetano [ roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com] *Enviado el:* domingo, 15 de mayo de 2016 11:15 *Hasta:* Seun Ojedeji *CC:* At-Large Worldwide *Asunto:* [At-Large] R: IGF Germany

Thanks, Seun, this is an excellent start, I will also have a look at the 2015 reports.

I would also be interested in whether some analysis has been made to compare the local initiatives – I am sure that every country approaches this issue in a different way.

Cheers,

Roberto

*Da:* Seun Ojedeji [mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com>]

*Inviato:* domenica 15 maggio 2016 17:27 *A:* Roberto Gaetano *Cc:* At-Large Worldwide *Oggetto:* Re: [At-Large] IGF Germany

Hi,

The URL below has references to national and regional IGFs:

http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/77-igf-regional-events/igf-regional-and-natio...

Regards

Sent from my LG G4 Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On 15 May 2016 4:14 p.m., "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all.

I have sent a specific message on this subject to the EURALO list, but I am realizing that what I am looking for is not limited to Europe, so I am replicating this to the global list.

I am particularly interested in efforts to establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level.

I understand that in Germany there is an ongoing effort to build this type of initiative.

Is this correct? How can I get more information?

Generally speaking, would it be a good idea to share the information that we have from different countries?

Maybe there are some ALSes that work locally on this subject, and it would be good to know more about it.

Cheers,

Roberto

PS: I know that our Armenian ALSes are active on this, and I am already in contact with them

_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

Thanks for sharing this Kaili. The structure of the ISC is not new to me, seeing it was already explained by our colleague and friend Hong Xue time before now. What it means to be multistakeholder and the way it is operationalized around the globe remains ever interesting......and controversial. In my part of the world any participation with governments in an organisation is suspect and according to some of our doorkeepers who interpret the ICANN vision of stakeholderism, inherently not multi-stakeholder. Some have even gone as far to say if an individual is a public employee or a business owner, then that individual is compromised and cannot represent end user interests. I have always found that view not only illiberal but the thinking hopelessly backward. For depending on the time of day and activity, I myself can be an academic, a small business owner, an adviser to governments, a civil society advocate and all round skeptic. I live. And the more I learn, the more I doubt. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 3:45 AM, Kan Kaili <kankaili@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

Sorry for replying late, for I just got back from extensive traveling and starting to sort out my emails.

Regarding setting up a national multi-stake holder structure, I agree that it depends on the circumstances.

Take China's Internet Society of China (ISC), it is indeed a multi-stakeholder structure. It is composed by Internet corporations, including gaint ones like Tencent and Alibaba as well as those with only a few employees, and scholars of the Internet field to represent consumers' interest. It also receives backing of the China Ministry of Industries and Information Technology (MIIT), although none of its funding is provided by the government. So far, ISC is the largest and maybe only organization representing China's huge Internet involvement, both domistically and internationally.

The reason that ISC was built into a multi-stakeholder organization is not only because all organizations must be registered with the government and face extensive scrutinies in order to become legal. Furthermore, as the government puts everything under control, there is absolutely no way to sue government policies in court. It is also next to impossible for consumers to sue Internet corporations, especially large ones, for mis-treatments. Instead, ISC plays the role of mediating among the consumers, the industry and the government. In this regard, scholars play an important role. They not only represent consumers' interest, but also advise the government on improving policies, advise corporations on better business practices, as well as guide consumers on their expectations. For these reasons, ISC is well recognized thruout the country in about all issues in relation to the Internet, especially when consumers' interest is involved.

Early this year ISC was approved to become an ALS of the At-Large community. This is because, the spirit of Al-Large being composed by consumers is to protect their interest and to present their voices. However, in the China environment, nobody else but ISC plays that role and does it effectively. Thus, being multi-stakeholder is one of ISC's greatest advantage instead of a defect.

Hope that this info could be of some help to you and others.

Best regards, Kaili

----- Original Message ----- *From:* Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *To:* at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org *Sent:* Sunday, May 15, 2016 11:13 PM *Subject:* [At-Large] IGF Germany

Hi all.

I have sent a specific message on this subject to the EURALO list, but I am realizing that what I am looking for is not limited to Europe, so I am replicating this to the global list.

I am particularly interested in efforts to establish multi-stakeholder structures at the national level.

I understand that in Germany there is an ongoing effort to build this type of initiative.

Is this correct? How can I get more information?

Generally speaking, would it be a good idea to share the information that we have from different countries?

Maybe there are some ALSes that work locally on this subject, and it would be good to know more about it.

Cheers,

Roberto

PS: I know that our Armenian ALSes are active on this, and I am already in contact with them

------------------------------

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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large

At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org