Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
I will check the ALAC schedule. We usually do not have evening events. -----Original Message-----
From: William Drake <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:37 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: investigaciones@densi.com.ar, James Seng <james@seng.sg>, ALAC Working List <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
Hi Beau, et al,
On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Beau Brendler wrote:
Last week, at the ISOC-NY event with Danny Younger, Milton Mueller and me, more than one person in attendance from ISOC encouraged us to put aside our differences and work to a solution on behalf of users. Milton's presentation was very clear and well-received. So as an elected member of at-large, I see it as a responsibility to do what the voters ask. Would be glad to have a drink. Korean shoju is particularly excellent for breaking the ice, and I've never had a hangover from it yet.
Then you plainly have not drunk enough of it, the stuff can be suitably lethal when taken in immoderation.
As Olivier points out, it appears there's an IDN, ccTLD fast track reception Monday night, and I am loath to ask people to skip free libation and carousing. We could just gather in the lobby afterwards and head off somewhere to eat (concierge can recommend), although we need to clarify when that would be---the online schedule says it ends at 20:00, but the GNSO schedule received this morning from staff says 20:30.
Alternatively, Thursday night seems open at the moment...not to complicate things, but does ALAC have anything then, and if not would this be preferable?
Either way, I'm glad to hear people are interested. Let's figure out when and then I'll write to NCUC, rather than having two date discussions running in parallel.
Thanks,
Bill
I'll be there. Thanks for suggesting this! - Evan
Dear all: I really do not understand. A few days ago MM was the "enemy", who said worse things about us, who insulted two lasts liaisons. But .... suddenly the situation became pink colour. I´m sorry, but when somebody insult me, I expect, al least, an apologize. After that, and depending of insult level, I decide if the relation follow. In my opinion the situation deserve another response. Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:22:22 -0400 From: beaubrendler@earthlink.net To: william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch CC: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org; at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
I will check the ALAC schedule. We usually do not have evening events.
-----Original Message-----
From: William Drake <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:37 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: investigaciones@densi.com.ar, James Seng <james@seng.sg>, ALAC Working List <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
Hi Beau, et al,
On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Beau Brendler wrote:
Last week, at the ISOC-NY event with Danny Younger, Milton Mueller and me, more than one person in attendance from ISOC encouraged us to put aside our differences and work to a solution on behalf of users. Milton's presentation was very clear and well-received. So as an elected member of at-large, I see it as a responsibility to do what the voters ask. Would be glad to have a drink. Korean shoju is particularly excellent for breaking the ice, and I've never had a hangover from it yet.
Then you plainly have not drunk enough of it, the stuff can be suitably lethal when taken in immoderation.
As Olivier points out, it appears there's an IDN, ccTLD fast track reception Monday night, and I am loath to ask people to skip free libation and carousing. We could just gather in the lobby afterwards and head off somewhere to eat (concierge can recommend), although we need to clarify when that would be---the online schedule says it ends at 20:00, but the GNSO schedule received this morning from staff says 20:30.
Alternatively, Thursday night seems open at the moment...not to complicate things, but does ALAC have anything then, and if not would this be preferable?
Either way, I'm glad to hear people are interested. Let's figure out when and then I'll write to NCUC, rather than having two date discussions running in parallel.
Thanks,
Bill
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Hi, FWIW, NCUC comprises 167 members from 53 different countries, including 80 noncommercial organizations and 87 individuals. One of those individuals is Milton. Anyone who has a gripe against someone else that cannot be ameliorated with soju and conversation is of course welcome to come but avoid them, or to take a pass. I wasn't suggesting mandatory bilaterals that will cause stress to anyone (although I would note that offline interactions with certain personas are generally far more congenial and productive, should one be inclined toward finding common ground, or at least mutual understanding). Bottom line, the same conversations are happening and the same concerns are being expressed in both communities, and balkanization based on past interpersonal difficulties is utterly self defeating to public interest representation in ICANN. Simply getting to know each other a bit better is rather small and easy step to take, there's no other agenda than that. Alan says ALAC usually has a dinner on Thursday and this shouldn't be at the expense of that, so I guess let's try Monday after the IDN ccTLD fast track reception. The path of least resistance would probably be to simply gather in the lobby at 8pm and then head off somewhere, we can ask the concierge for suggestions based on the body count. Given the responses here I'm guessing maybe 10-20 ALACers and would expect a similar number of NCUCers, unless the reception etc proves centrifugal. My mobile is +41 78 635 4888 if someone fails to make the connection and wants to join later wherever we end up. Cheers, Bill On Oct 15, 2009, at 11:46 PM, carlos aguirre wrote:
Dear all:
I really do not understand.
A few days ago MM was the "enemy", who said worse things about us, who insulted two lasts liaisons. But .... suddenly the situation became pink colour.
I´m sorry, but when somebody insult me, I expect, al least, an apologize.
After that, and depending of insult level, I decide if the relation follow.
In my opinion the situation deserve another response. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:22:22 -0400 From: beaubrendler@earthlink.net To: william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch CC: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org; at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
I will check the ALAC schedule. We usually do not have evening events.
-----Original Message-----
From: William Drake <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:37 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: investigaciones@densi.com.ar, James Seng <james@seng.sg>, ALAC Working List <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
Hi Beau, et al,
On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Beau Brendler wrote:
Last week, at the ISOC-NY event with Danny Younger, Milton Mueller and me, more than one person in attendance from ISOC encouraged us to put aside our differences and work to a solution on behalf of users. Milton's presentation was very clear and well-received. So as an elected member of at-large, I see it as a responsibility to do what the voters ask. Would be glad to have a drink. Korean shoju is particularly excellent for breaking the ice, and I've never had a hangover from it yet.
Then you plainly have not drunk enough of it, the stuff can be suitably lethal when taken in immoderation.
As Olivier points out, it appears there's an IDN, ccTLD fast track reception Monday night, and I am loath to ask people to skip free libation and carousing. We could just gather in the lobby afterwards and head off somewhere to eat (concierge can recommend), although we need to clarify when that would be---the online schedule says it ends at 20:00, but the GNSO schedule received this morning from staff says 20:30.
Alternatively, Thursday night seems open at the moment...not to complicate things, but does ALAC have anything then, and if not would this be preferable?
Either way, I'm glad to hear people are interested. Let's figure out when and then I'll write to NCUC, rather than having two date discussions running in parallel.
Thanks,
Bill
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
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*********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html ***********************************************************
I will join the ALAC NCUC meeting on Monday night. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 1:11 PM, William Drake < william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
Hi,
FWIW, NCUC comprises 167 members from 53 different countries, including 80 noncommercial organizations and 87 individuals. One of those individuals is Milton. Anyone who has a gripe against someone else that cannot be ameliorated with soju and conversation is of course welcome to come but avoid them, or to take a pass. I wasn't suggesting mandatory bilaterals that will cause stress to anyone (although I would note that offline interactions with certain personas are generally far more congenial and productive, should one be inclined toward finding common ground, or at least mutual understanding). Bottom line, the same conversations are happening and the same concerns are being expressed in both communities, and balkanization based on past interpersonal difficulties is utterly self defeating to public interest representation in ICANN. Simply getting to know each other a bit better is rather small and easy step to take, there's no other agenda than that.
Alan says ALAC usually has a dinner on Thursday and this shouldn't be at the expense of that, so I guess let's try Monday after the IDN ccTLD fast track reception. The path of least resistance would probably be to simply gather in the lobby at 8pm and then head off somewhere, we can ask the concierge for suggestions based on the body count. Given the responses here I'm guessing maybe 10-20 ALACers and would expect a similar number of NCUCers, unless the reception etc proves centrifugal.
My mobile is +41 78 635 4888 if someone fails to make the connection and wants to join later wherever we end up.
Cheers,
Bill
On Oct 15, 2009, at 11:46 PM, carlos aguirre wrote:
Dear all:
I really do not understand.
A few days ago MM was the "enemy", who said worse things about us, who insulted two lasts liaisons. But .... suddenly the situation became pink colour.
I´m sorry, but when somebody insult me, I expect, al least, an apologize.
After that, and depending of insult level, I decide if the relation follow.
In my opinion the situation deserve another response. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:22:22 -0400 From: beaubrendler@earthlink.net To: william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch CC: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org; at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
I will check the ALAC schedule. We usually do not have evening events.
-----Original Message-----
From: William Drake <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:37 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: investigaciones@densi.com.ar, James Seng <james@seng.sg>, ALAC Working List <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
Hi Beau, et al,
On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Beau Brendler wrote:
Last week, at the ISOC-NY event with Danny Younger, Milton Mueller and me, more than one person in attendance from ISOC encouraged us to put aside our differences and work to a solution on behalf of users. Milton's presentation was very clear and well-received. So as an elected member of at-large, I see it as a responsibility to do what the voters ask. Would be glad to have a drink. Korean shoju is particularly excellent for breaking the ice, and I've never had a hangover from it yet.
Then you plainly have not drunk enough of it, the stuff can be suitably lethal when taken in immoderation.
As Olivier points out, it appears there's an IDN, ccTLD fast track reception Monday night, and I am loath to ask people to skip free libation and carousing. We could just gather in the lobby afterwards and head off somewhere to eat (concierge can recommend), although we need to clarify when that would be---the online schedule says it ends at 20:00, but the GNSO schedule received this morning from staff says 20:30.
Alternatively, Thursday night seems open at the moment...not to complicate things, but does ALAC have anything then, and if not would this be preferable?
Either way, I'm glad to hear people are interested. Let's figure out when and then I'll write to NCUC, rather than having two date discussions running in parallel.
Thanks,
Bill
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
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*********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html ***********************************************************
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William Drake said:
FWIW, NCUC comprises 167 members from 53 different countries, including 80 noncommercial organizations and 87 individuals. One of those individuals is Milton. Anyone who has a gripe against someone else that cannot be ameliorated with soju and conversation is of course welcome to come but avoid them, or to take a pass. I wasn't suggesting mandatory bilaterals that will cause stress to anyone (although I would note that offline interactions with certain personas are generally far more congenial and productive, should one be inclined toward finding common ground, or at least mutual understanding). Bottom line, the same conversations are happening and the same concerns are being expressed in both communities, and balkanization based on past interpersonal difficulties is utterly self defeating to public interest representation in ICANN. Simply getting to know each other a bit better is rather small and easy step to take, there's no other agenda than that.
Well said. It's all-too-easy to be incendiary from the isolation of screen and keyboard. Being face to face offers people to look each other in the eye and see that 1) We're all just regular people, to whom a little respect and a smile can go a long way 2) Our goals, concerns and strategies are vastly more alike than they differ 3) Bringing down the heat level is in all our mutual interests - Evan
Thanks Bill. In my mind, the bottom line (in my mind) is that: - some of us disagree with each other on some issues (important issues, but still only a subset) - some people get a bit overheated with respect to these differences - myself included - that notwithstanding, we can and should cooperate where there are benefits of doing so - I happen to like some NCUC folks, and would prefer that we agree to disagree on our differences, occasionally participate in vigorous debates on these, but not let these disagreements get in the way. Alan PS And yes, perhaps we need the occasional apology (some of which HAVE come), but their absence should not reflect on others. At 16/10/2009 03:41 AM, William Drake wrote:
Hi,
FWIW, NCUC comprises 167 members from 53 different countries, including 80 noncommercial organizations and 87 individuals. One of those individuals is Milton. Anyone who has a gripe against someone else that cannot be ameliorated with soju and conversation is of course welcome to come but avoid them, or to take a pass. I wasn't suggesting mandatory bilaterals that will cause stress to anyone (although I would note that offline interactions with certain personas are generally far more congenial and productive, should one be inclined toward finding common ground, or at least mutual understanding). Bottom line, the same conversations are happening and the same concerns are being expressed in both communities, and balkanization based on past interpersonal difficulties is utterly self defeating to public interest representation in ICANN. Simply getting to know each other a bit better is rather small and easy step to take, there's no other agenda than that.
Alan says ALAC usually has a dinner on Thursday and this shouldn't be at the expense of that, so I guess let's try Monday after the IDN ccTLD fast track reception. The path of least resistance would probably be to simply gather in the lobby at 8pm and then head off somewhere, we can ask the concierge for suggestions based on the body count. Given the responses here I'm guessing maybe 10-20 ALACers and would expect a similar number of NCUCers, unless the reception etc proves centrifugal.
My mobile is +41 78 635 4888 if someone fails to make the connection and wants to join later wherever we end up.
Cheers,
Bill
On Oct 15, 2009, at 11:46 PM, carlos aguirre wrote:
Dear all:
I really do not understand.
A few days ago MM was the "enemy", who said worse things about us, who insulted two lasts liaisons. But .... suddenly the situation became pink colour.
I´m sorry, but when somebody insult me, I expect, al least, an apologize.
After that, and depending of insult level, I decide if the relation follow.
In my opinion the situation deserve another response. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:22:22 -0400 From: beaubrendler@earthlink.net To: william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch CC: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org; at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
I will check the ALAC schedule. We usually do not have evening events.
-----Original Message-----
From: William Drake <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> Sent: Oct 15, 2009 10:37 AM To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler@earthlink.net> Cc: investigaciones@densi.com.ar, James Seng <james@seng.sg>, ALAC Working List <alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [ALAC] ALAC-NCUC
Hi Beau, et al,
On Oct 15, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Beau Brendler wrote:
Last week, at the ISOC-NY event with Danny Younger, Milton Mueller and me, more than one person in attendance from ISOC encouraged us to put aside our differences and work to a solution on behalf of users. Milton's presentation was very clear and well-received. So as an elected member of at-large, I see it as a responsibility to do what the voters ask. Would be glad to have a drink. Korean shoju is particularly excellent for breaking the ice, and I've never had a hangover from it yet.
Then you plainly have not drunk enough of it, the stuff can be suitably lethal when taken in immoderation.
As Olivier points out, it appears there's an IDN, ccTLD fast track reception Monday night, and I am loath to ask people to skip free libation and carousing. We could just gather in the lobby afterwards and head off somewhere to eat (concierge can recommend), although we need to clarify when that would be---the online schedule says it ends at 20:00, but the GNSO schedule received this morning from staff says 20:30.
Alternatively, Thursday night seems open at the moment...not to complicate things, but does ALAC have anything then, and if not would this be preferable?
Either way, I'm glad to hear people are interested. Let's figure out when and then I'll write to NCUC, rather than having two date discussions running in parallel.
Thanks,
Bill
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
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*********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html ***********************************************************
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
participants (6)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Beau Brendler -
carlos aguirre -
Evan Leibovitch -
Sivasubramanian Muthusamy -
William Drake