X marks the spot - a small spot
So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already. Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists? To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage. Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that: - A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies; - Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox"; - Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly). - Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990. Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts. Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56
Greetings from Accra, Ghana. Thanks a lot dear @Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> for sharing these crucial points of view with us. Warm regards Olévié Kouami Le jeu. 27 juil. 2023, 00:03, Evan Leibovitch via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> a écrit :
So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that:
- A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
- Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
- Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
- Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990.
Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Well said Evan On Thu, 27 Jul 2023, 01:03 Evan Leibovitch via At-Large, < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that:
- A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
- Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
- Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
- Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990.
Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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A counterpoint: Fortunately or unfortunately, Mr. Musk’s insistence on destroying a $45 billion brand so popular that it is used as a verb — the holy grail — doesn’t really have much to do with branding, or domain names, in the ordinary sense. There are different kinds of brands out there. Some have the power to project all the attributes that appeal to the brand holders and their customers — e.g., Chanel, 3M, McDonalds — and have been years and millions in the making. Others have the unique quality of being easy to find, without much else to them. A generic word is a subpar brand from many points of view, but if people nonetheless find it because they remember it, then it functions as a brand in one important sense at least. It’s a terrible move for Twitter, IMO, but getting a short and memorable generic domain name (or letter) may not a bad business move for a small business, especially a startup, if the price is right. Their other choice is to find some name they want to brand and do all the work and spend all the money to get it recognized — something that a small business has neither the money, or time, to do. It may not have the long-term value of a “real” brand, but some businesses don’t have, (or don’t think they have) the luxury of thinking long term. Depending on how and where they meet their customers, building a brand in the traditional sense might not be the smart move, while having a domain name that’s easy to remember and reproduce might pay off. I agree that it’s stupidity for Twitter to become X, but I’d argue it’s not so stupid for a guide to LA to change from (for example) antonysguide.com to laguide.com. That might well be worth a few grand and even though “LA Guide” is pretty generic, it says on the outside what you can find on the inside, and that can be quite valuable for a company struggling to become known. Later on they might regret it, but at least there will be a later on. Antony
On Jul 26, 2023, at 5:02 PM, Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that: A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990. Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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This is an interesting conversation ... but trademarks and branding ought not to be part of ICANN's job of assuring the technical stability, reliability, and accuracy of the top two tiers of the domain name system. While staying within the bounds of technical stability, ICANN has done a great deal of good by dealing with things such as look-alike character sets and technical matters such as DNSSEC key signing. But when ICANN stepped outside those bounds things have not gone so well for the every-day, non-corporate Internet user. We have plenty of laws regarding contention among trademarks (and between others who use names and trademarks). Indeed there are massive bodies of lawyers and others who toil and battle daily in those arenas. And we have similarly massive bodies of laws, backed by civil and criminal enforcement authorities, regarding misrepresentation, whether that is via a misleading advertisement or domain name. But ICANN jumped in, nearly on day one, to become an international legislature and regulator, sans portfolio, over trademarks and domain names. There was no more need for ICANN to do that than for ICANN to arbitrarily and baselessly legislate, as it did, that domain names can be held only in one year increments for a maximum of ten years. I really annoyed a US Senator when I reminded him during a hearing (and while I was on the ICANN board) that if I got nine other directors to agree with me we could enact a policy that would amount to an international law of trademark that would supersede and trump anything that he, a mere United States Senator, could ever enact. Whether Musk wants to destroy Twitter by changing it to x.com is Musk's business, not ICANN's. There's plenty to discuss about ICANN, such as how it has become an institutionalized money pump into the pockets of certain practitioners of ossified and obsolete ICANN mandated business models, or about how there are entire ICANN designated industries that apply ICANN's pro-trademark policies against users of the net. Ordinary Internet users have become paying losers in the game-o'ICANN, largely because of ICANN's obsession with trademarks and capture by the trademark protection industry (of which I am a member) who have found ICANN to be a convenient means to get what they often could not get in a court of law. --karl--
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 6:42 PM Karl Auerbach via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote: trademarks and branding ought not to be part of ICANN's job of assuring the
technical stability, reliability, and accuracy of the top two tiers of the domain name system.
Your review and analysis is correct, but ... OK, then what? The gap between what ICANN ought to have done (or not done) and what it did is real. The challenge that faces ALAC -- the one body feebly empowered to assert the interest of end-users not represented by ICANN's self-interested constituencies -- is what to do about it? The industry accidentally created by ICANN's actions is loathe to narrow, let alone close, that gap after the fact. This appears to render ALAC's role to one of damage mitigation. Or, do we abdicate consumer-protection responsibility to the California Attorney General, only to then complain about its overreach? This is a very different conversation than the original one intended, but it is very much still needed. Given its current constitution and the way it burns through both volunteer and paid-staff person-hours, what is ALAC doing to inform and protect? How does it even know what the public-at-large needs? These are not questions that should require an outside consultant to ask and then provide industry-friendly analysis to the Board. This is something that we should be asking ourselves, yet can't (or refuse to). I have my own reasons why but that's not the point. Indeed, it's vital to know how we got to this point. That history should be informing ALAC's role in the present, but it doesn't. Instead it's become a part of the furniture, happily engaging within ICANN's various fraternal squabbles, guessing without evidence of the position of the global public -- rather than simply (a) finding out what the public needs from ICANN and (b) advocating forcefully and unapologetically in advancement of those needs, and nothing else. - Evan
My take is that some of the most valuable domain brands on the internet are either made up nonsense words like Twitter or Google, or words that convey little or nothing about what they do like Amazon and Apple. Yet in the many discussions regarding domains and TLDs I've experienced including attending ICANN meeting for ten years they almost always seem to revolve around the notion that common dictionary words or product/service "compelling" words or very short domains are where to focus all efforts from resale price to various fights like the current several year fight over .WEB, auctions, making up rules like for geographic names (are any of them successful?) Yet so many seemingly valuable domains, by the reasoning of these discussions, went nowhere like furniture.com, sex.com (is it still the highest domain name sale price ever? it was), beauty.com, even much lusted after TLDs like .ART and dare I say it .XXX, .SEX, .PORN. Sometimes I'll type in common words usually .COM just to see where they go and mostly they're parked, they go nowhere. Or there's some 1990s quickly thrown together website behind them. OR sometimes they lead to some big brand name which I guess is useful (e.g., aspirin.com takes you to Bayer.) Which leads me to believe that you get a bunch of people in a discussion on this topic they will basically go into this strange hallucinatory cargo cult mentality based on pretty much nothing, or worse, despite actual evidence to the contrary. I have no idea if changing Twitter to X is brilliant or idiotic or somewhere in between despite all the product of the chattering classes which seems to believe they can simulate the entire internet and all its denizens in their heads. Far be it for me to defend Elon Musk but at least, as the saying goes, he put his money where his mouth is. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 3:02 PM Antony Van Couvering via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
A counterpoint:
I agree that it’s stupidity for Twitter to become X, but I’d argue it’s not
so stupid for a guide to LA to change from (for example) antonysguide.com to laguide.com. That might well be worth a few grand and even though “LA Guide” is pretty generic, it says on the outside what you can find on the inside, and that can be quite valuable for a company struggling to become known. Later on they might regret it, but at least there will be a later on.
Counter-counterpoint: People these days will just search their favorite engine for "LA Guide" which will happily take them to "antonysguide.com" ... and a number of other websites on the topic that weren't (a) first in line to get the original domain or (b) rich enough to buy it on the resale market. In any case, unique names will be more identifiable than a generic term, especially for something like a guide that would be curated and reflect its authors. Examples abound, with craigslist, timeout and tomsguide being the ones that come to mine quickest. Spend your money on desirable content (and maybe a little SEO) rather than a resale domain. - Evan
Sounds like someone is not a fan of Mr Musk. The way I see it: his money (of which he has plenty), his companies, and consequently his decisions. And given his successful track record, I wouldn't bet against him. On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 7:03 PM Evan Leibovitch via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that:
- A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
- Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
- Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
- Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990.
Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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No doubt he has the right; we shall see if he has the ability. Perhaps he is a genius, or perhaps there is a decent statistical chance that someone from a privileged background can get lucky three times in a row, and blow it on the fourth.
On Jul 28, 2023, at 12:06 PM, Mike Arbrouet via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Sounds like someone is not a fan of Mr Musk. The way I see it: his money (of which he has plenty), his companies, and consequently his decisions. And given his successful track record, I wouldn't bet against him.
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 7:03 PM Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that: A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990. Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
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Perception of luck can be subjective but success in business entrepreneurship requires intelligence, hard work, determination, resilience and innovative mindset. I tend to attribute Mr Musk's success in those categories. Luck can take one so far. It's statically unfair to invoke luck when the guy has built/led/run/invested in companies such as Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, the Boring company, OpenAI, ... Credit when credit is due. On Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 3:03 PM Antony Van Couvering <avc@avc.vc> wrote:
No doubt he has the right; we shall see if he has the ability. Perhaps he is a genius, or perhaps there is a decent statistical chance that someone from a privileged background can get lucky three times in a row, and blow it on the fourth.
On Jul 28, 2023, at 12:06 PM, Mike Arbrouet via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Sounds like someone is not a fan of Mr Musk. The way I see it: his money (of which he has plenty), his companies, and consequently his decisions. And given his successful track record, I wouldn't bet against him.
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 7:03 PM Evan Leibovitch via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that:
- A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
- Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
- Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
- Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990.
Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Not only has Elon Musk bought the X.com domain. Others have done the same such as Nissan with Z.com (now GMO Financial), Century Link now Quantum Wireless with Q.com, Amazon with a.co, Visa with v.me or many others from mainstream corporate world presumably not driven by luck. Yet somehow African American Elon Musk actions are the ones that end up in the spotlight after restoring accounts deleted unilaterally by overzealous Twitter staffers. As to a trademark, courts worldwide agree that single letters are "weak" to defend. A domain is another form of goods or services which ownership can be challenged before WIPO Arbitration and Mediation Center's domain name dispute resolution services. ICANN and IANA should just stick to the technical aspect of it all. However, single letters are among the most popular trademarks registered in the United States. Each letter of the alphabet has, at a minimum, hundreds of trademarks. There are, for example, over 2,000 trademarks of the letter S, making it the most popular. There are 1,102 Vs, 1,100 Es, and 1,816 As. Pity the lonely Y, with only 229. ... W is solidly in the middle of the letter pack, with 1,081 trademarks https://www.fastcompany.com/3042515/wtf-inside-the-wild-weird-world-of-trade... X seems seems to be marking a spot in a well-beaten path not only in trademarks but also in domains. More in https://www.midphase.com/blog/where-are-all-the-single-letter-domains/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-letter_second-level_domain https://www.trademarkia.com/f-by-ferragamo-87606511 Alvaro Aguilar Mobile: +507 6638-8707 Fax: +507 340-6446 Tel: +507 396-5081 Skype lagcentral / Linkedin / FacebookThe views and opinions expressed in this email message are the author's own and may not reflect those of the firm. The information contained may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail. Le vendredi 28 juillet 2023 à 15:26:29 UTC−5, Mike Arbrouet via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> a écrit : Perception of luck can be subjective but success in business entrepreneurship requires intelligence, hard work, determination, resilience and innovative mindset. I tend to attribute Mr Musk's success in those categories. Luck can take one so far. It's statically unfair to invoke luck when the guy has built/led/run/invested in companies such as Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, the Boring company, OpenAI, ...Credit when credit is due. On Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 3:03 PM Antony Van Couvering <avc@avc.vc> wrote: No doubt he has the right; we shall see if he has the ability. Perhaps he is a genius, or perhaps there is a decent statistical chance that someone from a privileged background can get lucky three times in a row, and blow it on the fourth. On Jul 28, 2023, at 12:06 PM, Mike Arbrouet via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote: Sounds like someone is not a fan of Mr Musk. The way I see it: his money (of which he has plenty), his companies, and consequently his decisions.And given his successful track record, I wouldn't bet against him. On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 7:03 PM Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote: So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already. Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists? To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage. Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that: - A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies; - Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox"; - Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly). ... Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada@evanleibovitch / @el56_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ | | Virus-free.www.avg.com |
Napoleon had a very successful track record, very few would have betted against him when he invaded Russia r.
On 28.07.2023, at 21:06, Mike Arbrouet via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Sounds like someone is not a fan of Mr Musk. The way I see it: his money (of which he has plenty), his companies, and consequently his decisions. And given his successful track record, I wouldn't bet against him.
On Wed, Jul 26, 2023, 7:03 PM Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: So apparently a certain purveyor of rockets, tunnels and electric cars is infatuated with the letter "X" to the point of destroying decades and billions of dollars in accumulated brand value in renaming Twitter. Most involved in tech are I'm sure aware of this already.
Why am I posting this to ICANN mailing lists?
To call attention to the stupidity of confusing domains with brands, something in which many domain sellers -- mainly speculative domain re-sellers -- gleefully engage.
Apparently Mr. Musk seems to believe that acquiring "X.com" from Facebook -- along with some cosmetic redesigns -- constitutes a rebranding. Let this episode be a warning to others who would use a domain as a primary branding tactic, forgetting that: A great number of tech companies have trademarked uses of the letter X <https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/25/tech/meta-microsoft-trademarks-new-twitte...> for web services, most notable among them the aforementioned Facebook. So this is not an issue of Musk being able to bully smaller companies;
Then there's Microsoft, which has some such trademarks of its own and produces an obscure, little-known computing device known as an "XBox";
Most people using Unix and Linux for their desktops have been using software known as "X" for decades (though it is being phased out ... very slowly).
Also consider that doing searches for "X" on the Internet is ikely to find paths to very family-UNfriendly parts of the web. Consider the American "X" rating given to films before 1990. Let this be a cautionary tale, unfolding before us in real time. A domain name is at best a minor part of branding strategy that must consider many other factors. Paying a substantial sum for that second-hand domain will not be the answer to your problems, and may indeed introduce new problems. And especially beware of domain resellers passing themselves off as branding experts.
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large>
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His money, his companies -- sure. On the other hand, significant impact to a bunch of other people as well. Not least, his (increasingly, ex-) employees. Granted, in this job market they can probably find new positions fairly quickly. Still, for some of us job hunting is no fun at all. And it's a disruption at best. It's one thing to be a poor businessman and have your company fail. But this looks more like deliberate sabotage. At least, it's not obvious how a better deliberate destruction might be achieved. Bill Jouris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 12:07 PM, Mike Arbrouet via At-Large<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 3:07 PM Mike Arbrouet via At-Large < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Sounds like someone is not a fan of Mr Musk. The way I see it: his money (of which he has plenty), his companies, and consequently his decisions. And given his successful track record, I wouldn't bet against him.
This thread wasn't intended to focus so much on Musk as the conflation of branding and domain names. I would simply note that rationale of a "successful track record" without also noting the many failures (Hyperloop, Dodger Stadium, the Tesla truck as just some examples, not to mention Twitter whose market value has already been decimated) might not be a path worth following in detail. I'll leave it to others to finish populating this side-thread. - Evan
participants (10)
-
Aguilar -
Antony Van Couvering -
Bill Jouris -
bzs＠theworld.com -
Evan Leibovitch -
Karl Auerbach -
Mike Arbrouet -
Olévié A. A Kouami -
Remmy Nweke -
Roberto Gaetano