Re: [At-Large] [ALAC-Internal] Current Nominees / Volunteers List
Nope, not attacked. But judging from the relatively lukewarm response, and the fact the new ALAC chairman is appointing subcommittees and/or allocating responsibilities within the ALAC to help address the problem I thought a "special advisor" could help solve, I'm inclined to just drop the whole thing, I'm too busy with other work to keep bringing it up and re-explaining it. Having worked with Jonathan directly over the last two years on a couple of things, I have a different perspective of his views, at least pertaining to consumer groups. The term "civil society" seems to me a Euro/academic construct that hasn't much meaning among the people I work with, so I don't know how to address it. FYI, Jonathan indicated interest, but hasn't "accepted" anything, since there's nothing to accept. Please call me if you want to go into further details. -----Original Message----- From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:47 AM To: Brendler, Beau Cc: Nick Ashton-Hart; Jacqueline Morris Subject: Re: [ALAC-Internal] Current Nominees / Volunteers List Hi, I hope you didn't feel attacked. I had never heard of these special advisor positions before. I assume there were discussions on the internal ALAC list before the RALO people were subscribed to it? I was curious about both, the specific functions of the advisors and, admittedly, a bit about your choices. Jon Zittrain doesn't think much of civil society engagement in ICANN as he has stated again and again. This is why I wondered why he was suggested and also why he accepted this role. best, jeanette Brendler, Beau wrote:
Hi, Jeanette. I've posted more than once on this issue, so I invite you to call me directly if you have questions. (914) 378-2018
-----Original Message----- From: alac-internal-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-internal-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Jeanette Hofmann Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:45 AM To: Nick Ashton-Hart Cc: ALAC & Secretariats Internal Subject: Re: [ALAC-Internal] Current Nominees / Volunteers List
Hi, could someone please explain to me what are Special Advisers on Internet Governance Policy? Thank you, jeanette
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
Dear All:
Here's the list of nominees and/or volunteers for open working groups / positions. I've pasted the text below for ease of reading.
I believe this is correct - if I've left anyone out please accept my apologies and let me know; we can then submit the list to the public list for review?
Note that those who have volunteered for working groups should feel free to jump in now and join the working group mailing lists and review / update the working group pages, all of which can be found at: https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?at_large_policy_working_groups
Nominations for Open Liaison Positions and
Volunteers for Working Groups
2007/8
/Nominations / Volunteering Notices Received on or before the 20^th November 2007 /
*ALAC Committee Officers*
_Rapporteur_
Hawa Diakite (accepted)
*Liaisons*
WHOIS
Jose Ovidio Salgueiro
GAC
Izumi Aizu (accepted)
*Working Groups*
_IDNs_
Thu Hue (member) Fatimata Seye Sylla Hong Xue (as IDN Liaison) Franz Gerbosch Sergio Salinas Porto
_WHOIS_
Claudia Fonseca (Vanda, 18/10)
_Registrant/Registrar Relations_
Sebastien Ricciardi Rudi Vansnick
_IPv4 - IPv6 Migration_
Patrick Vande Walle Izumi Aizu Carlos Aguirre
_New GTLDs_
Nguyen Thu Hue
Gurumurthy Kasinathan
Erick Iriarte Ahon
Sebastien Ricciardi
Domain Tasting
Alan Greenberg Izumi Aizu
*Ad-Hoc Positions*
_Special Adviser on Internet Governance Policy_
Jonathan Zittrain Wolfgang Kleinwachter
--------------------------------------------------------------------- - --
-- Regards,
Nick Ashton-Hart Director, At-Large ICANN Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org <mailto:nick.ashton-hart@icann.org> Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com <mailto:ashtonhart@hotmail.com> / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com <mailto:nashtonhart@mac.com> / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
--------------------------------------------------------------------- - --
_______________________________________________ ALAC-Internal mailing list ALAC-Internal@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac-internal_atlarge- li sts.icann.org
ALAC Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac ALAC Official: http://alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
_______________________________________________ ALAC-Internal mailing list ALAC-Internal@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac-internal_atlarge- li sts.icann.org
ALAC Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac ALAC Official: http://alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
*** Scanned
*** Scanned
Brendler, Beau wrote:
Having worked with Jonathan directly over the last two years on a couple of things, I have a different perspective of his views, at least pertaining to consumer groups. The term "civil society" seems to me a Euro/academic construct that hasn't much meaning among the people I work with, so I don't know how to address it.
I share that viewpoint completely. ICANN already has a well-established forum to accommodate the policy viewpoints of civil society -- NCUC, It is a continuing source of discomfort -- and a long-term recipe for failure -- that so many within ALAC see At-Large as "NCUC-Light". It is critically important to know how At-Large -- and especially its leadership within ALAC -- understands the significant differences between this community and the one represented by NCUC. It's a contrast of culture, of terminology, of style, of motivation, even of language. And the difference is most certainly reflected in the way Beau's offer has been dealt with. ALSs share some characteristics of the NGOs that make up NCUC. But their defined role -- and expectations -- related to ICANN are very different. The sooner ALAC comes to understand this, the better for all of us. - Evan
Really? How many of the 15? -----Original Message----- From: Evan Leibovitch [mailto:evan@telly.org] that so many within ALAC see At-Large as "NCUC-Light". No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 17:58
as has been mentioned before by several people - please try to avoid cross posting to more than one ALAC list. If the message is posted to the At-large world-wide list, then one would assume that all ALS's, regional RALOs, as well as ALAC members are reading it. A personal request - when composing a message and/or replying to a message that includes the "worldwide at-large list", please remove all other recipients. My mailbox thanks you. regards Robert --
Hi, just an important point or two in differentiating between ALAC and NCUC. ALAC has an official "advisory" role to the Board, at least in name. http://www.icann.org/minutes/minutes-appa-31oct02.htm#XI-2.4 NCUC does not have this same path to the Board, although of course it may "advise" of its own volition. Also, the ALAC, as an official advisory body, may call for an issues report, which is the first step in the Policy Development Process (PDP). http://www.icann.org/general/bylaws.htm#AnnexA NCUC, on its own, cannot call for an issues report. The other main difference is that ALAC, as an advisory body, has a substantial budget, while NCUC does not. My understanding was always that NCUC's membership was noncommercial organizations (that also could be made up of organizations.) For a long time ALAC voted in ALS's that were organizations made up of INDIVIDUAL members, not other organizations. I don't know if this rule is still followed or not. I think that ALAC's performance has been disappointing. I wonder if it should be replaced by something that looks more like a 15 person Board Advisory Committee, with membership recruited by NomCom. Just a thought. Jean Polly Ex- Interim ALAC North America At 2:09 PM -0400 11/26/07, Jacqueline A. Morris recently said:
Really? How many of the 15?
-----Original Message----- From: Evan Leibovitch [mailto:evan@telly.org]
that so many within ALAC see At-Large as "NCUC-Light".
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 17:58
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
For me the difference between the two groups was clearly illustrated by what the NCUC chose to respond to in the GNSO's report on new gTLDs. They focused narrowly on a free speech matter. In my organization's opinion, there were a whole range of consumer (i.e., end-user, not domain registrant) issues to be addressed. Jean, I would be interested to hear you elaborate on your disappointments from the following paragraph: I think that ALAC's performance has been disappointing. I wonder if it should be replaced by something that looks more like a 15 person Board Advisory Committee, with membership recruited by NomCom. Just a thought. The ALAC is trying to make some moves to reform itself and this might be a good time to make (specific) concerns heard. Beau Brendler ________________________________ From: Jean Armour Polly [mailto:mom@netmom.com] Sent: Mon 11/26/2007 6:27 PM To: alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org Cc: Brendler, Beau; 'Jeanette Hofmann' Subject: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC-Internal] Current Nominees / Volunteers List Hi, just an important point or two in differentiating between ALAC and NCUC. ALAC has an official "advisory" role to the Board, at least in name. http://www.icann.org/minutes/minutes-appa-31oct02.htm#XI-2.4 NCUC does not have this same path to the Board, although of course it may "advise" of its own volition. Also, the ALAC, as an official advisory body, may call for an issues report, which is the first step in the Policy Development Process (PDP). http://www.icann.org/general/bylaws.htm#AnnexA NCUC, on its own, cannot call for an issues report. The other main difference is that ALAC, as an advisory body, has a substantial budget, while NCUC does not. My understanding was always that NCUC's membership was noncommercial organizations (that also could be made up of organizations.) For a long time ALAC voted in ALS's that were organizations made up of INDIVIDUAL members, not other organizations. I don't know if this rule is still followed or not. I think that ALAC's performance has been disappointing. I wonder if it should be replaced by something that looks more like a 15 person Board Advisory Committee, with membership recruited by NomCom. Just a thought. Jean Polly Ex- Interim ALAC North America At 2:09 PM -0400 11/26/07, Jacqueline A. Morris recently said:
Really? How many of the 15?
-----Original Message----- From: Evan Leibovitch [mailto:evan@telly.org]
that so many within ALAC see At-Large as "NCUC-Light".
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 17:58
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://www.alac.icann.org ALAC Independent: http://www.icannalac.org
*** Scanned
On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:51 AM, Brendler, Beau wrote:
They focused narrowly on a free speech matter. In my organization's opinion, there were a whole range of consumer (i.e., end-user, not domain registrant) issues to be addressed.
Good to have both views articulated though. We could benefit from the cross-over. Certainly more users buy stuff on the Internet than publish on it, but both views are important to articulate on behalf of end users. -- Bret Fausett (skype me at "lextext") smime.p7s is a digital signature http://www.imc.org/smime-pgpmime.html -------------------------------------
There has been mention of the Russian Business Network here of late. The following document is a "must read" for all here. It shows how domain names and networks are being abused, how the victims are both business and end users. It clearly demonstrates the risk RBN poses to every aspect of the Internet as we know it: http://bizeul.org/files/RBN_study.pdf It mentions: "This is where Internet regulators should use their authority to ask all registries (gTLD and ccTLD) to accept to place fraudulent domains “on-hold” when required by a security team that has already tracked down a malicious domain." Interesting thought. Derek Smythe
2007/11/28, Bret Fausett <bfausett@internet.law.pro>:
On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:51 AM, Brendler, Beau wrote:
They focused narrowly on a free speech matter. In my organization's opinion, there were a whole range of consumer (i.e., end-user, not domain registrant) issues to be addressed.
Good to have both views articulated though. We could benefit from the cross-over. Certainly more users buy stuff on the Internet than publish on it, but both views are important to articulate on behalf of end users.
I quite agree with this line. In my veiw, NCUC and ALAC/RALO/ALS are complementaly, not competing, at least directly. With the result of GNSO Review and also upcoming ALAC review, as well as Board review, we should not limit our imagination to just the curresnt status-quo, but I think we should also pay good attention to the past history which led to the present situation. izumi
2007/11/27, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org>:
Brendler, Beau wrote:
Having worked with Jonathan directly over the last two years on a couple of things, I have a different perspective of his views, at least pertaining to consumer groups. The term "civil society" seems to me a Euro/academic construct that hasn't much meaning among the people I work with, so I don't know how to address it.
I share that viewpoint completely.
I have a very different viewpoint, from Asia-Pacific. There are more than North America, Euro.acadmics working wihtin ICANN AtLarge, as well as WSIS civil society groups, many from Asia, Pacific, Africa, Latin America and Caribbean regions, which are not mentioned here. I expressed my strong reservations about the concept and proposal of "Special Advisor" on Internet Governance. I still don't see the need for it and have not seen sufficinet rationale to convince me.
ICANN already has a well-established forum to accommodate the policy viewpoints of civil society -- NCUC, It is a continuing source of discomfort -- and a long-term recipe for failure -- that so many within ALAC see At-Large as "NCUC-Light".
I don't see that many ALAC members see that.
It is critically important to know how At-Large -- and especially its leadership within ALAC -- understands the significant differences between this community and the one represented by NCUC. It's a contrast of culture, of terminology, of style, of motivation, even of language. And the difference is most certainly reflected in the way Beau's offer has been dealt with.
I am sorry, but I again do not understand this. There seems to be some mis-understandings, or gap in logics.
ALSs share some characteristics of the NGOs that make up NCUC. But their defined role -- and expectations -- related to ICANN are very different. The sooner ALAC comes to understand this, the better for all of us.
ALAC and NCUC have had many joint-meeting at ICANN meetings, including the recent one at Los Angels. I think both have good understanding of the different roles each are supposed to play. We may have some difference in opinions on certain issues, but that is quite natural, as we also have many points to share, too. best, izumi
- Evan
As I mentioned earlier ... Is it too much to ask for people to review their cc & to fields so that posting is only made to ONE list. thanks regards, Robert --- Robert Guerra <rguerra@privaterra.ca> Managing Director, Privaterra Tel +1 416 893 0377 On 26-Nov-07, at 7:45 PM, Izumi AIZU wrote:
2007/11/27, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org>:
participants (8)
-
Brendler, Beau -
Bret Fausett -
Derek Smythe -
Evan Leibovitch -
Izumi AIZU -
Jacqueline A. Morris -
Jean Armour Polly -
Robert Guerra