Question: Aren't these votes usually open for at least a week? If so, then I just can't believe that 8 ALAC members would be off-line for an entire week. How time consuming is it to go on-line and vote? It is also a concern when the same names keep popping up again and again as non-voters and non-meeting attendees but are ALWAYS at the f2f meetings. I'm not as out-spoken as Danny but I am starting to become rather concerned. I'd also like to thank staff for providing us with these stats. D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Jacqueline A. Morris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:45 AM To: At-Large Worldwide Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [At-Large] "We can't be bothered to vote; so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo" Hi Danny Similar participation rate for the Vote on ratification of the Statement on GNSO Restructuring - 8 votes. Are ppl travelling or otherwise offline? I would look for reasons before assuming that they "decided to ignore" or didn't care to vote... Maybe we should ask why before assigning negative reasons? Jacqueline Danny Younger wrote:

In another fine display of participant zeal, eight ALAC members decided to ignore yet another ALAC vote -- this time on the Overview Report on the ALAC Review. Those listed below (more than half of the ALAC) did not bother to vote:

1 Izumi Aizu 2 Annette Muehlberg 3 Carlos Aguirre 4 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro 5 Hawa Diakite 6 Thu Hue Nguyen 7 Vanda Scartezini 8 Fatimata Seye Sylla

Kudos to the ALAC Chair for the great results obtained under the new "Remedial" participation policy. At this rate, the ALAC will be dead and buried soon.

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Dear Darlene: Many thanks for your thanks ­ however, thanks are really due to the Chair of the ALAC for making transparency in so many ways, and performance indicator publication, a priority, and for the ALAC and the community for supporting these measures. <personal opinion mode on> May I take this opportunity to note that it is our understanding that At-Large is the only community where leaders have established participation requirements, and also the only community in ICANN which publishes information about the performance of those the requirements cover. I believe this is something that many others in ICANN are not aware of and that these initiatives are very much to the community¹s credit. <personal opinion mode off> On 26/09/2008 15:53, "Thompson, Darlene" <DThompson@GOV.NU.CA> wrote:

Question:

Aren't these votes usually open for at least a week? If so, then I just can't believe that 8 ALAC members would be off-line for an entire week. How time consuming is it to go on-line and vote?

It is also a concern when the same names keep popping up again and again as non-voters and non-meeting attendees but are ALWAYS at the f2f meetings.

I'm not as out-spoken as Danny but I am starting to become rather concerned. I'd also like to thank staff for providing us with these stats.

D

Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca

-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Jacqueline A. Morris Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:45 AM To: At-Large Worldwide Cc: NA Discuss Subject: Re: [At-Large] "We can't be bothered to vote; so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo"

Hi Danny Similar participation rate for the Vote on ratification of the Statement

on GNSO Restructuring - 8 votes. Are ppl travelling or otherwise offline? I would look for reasons before

assuming that they "decided to ignore" or didn't care to vote... Maybe we should ask why before assigning negative reasons? Jacqueline

Danny Younger wrote:

...

...

In another fine display of participant zeal, eight ALAC members decided to ignore yet another ALAC vote -- this time on the Overview Report on the ALAC Review. Those listed below (more than half of the ALAC) did not bother to vote:

1 Izumi Aizu 2 Annette Muehlberg 3 Carlos Aguirre 4 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro 5 Hawa Diakite 6 Thu Hue Nguyen 7 Vanda Scartezini 8 Fatimata Seye Sylla

Kudos to the ALAC Chair for the great results obtained under the new "Remedial" participation policy. At this rate, the ALAC will be dead and buried soon.

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-- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA DD: +1 (310) 578-8637 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

Jacqueline, We have all seen Staff's ALAC Member Participation Report and the recently released Liaison Participation Report. This is not a single instance of non-participation, this is part of an ongoing trend that is getting worse by the day. Most ALAC members are not discussing policy initiatives on-line, many are not attending teleconferences as required, nor casting votes as required. Lately, the ALAC can't even get an attendance quorum at its monthly meetings. ALAC members themselves agreed to certain rules governing participation -- those rules basically said that if the member doesn't participate at a certain minimal level, the Chair will ask that member to resign. The ALAC is now well below those minimum participation levels and resignations are clearly warranted. If the ALAC won't even abide by its own rules set by its own members, then how can you expect anyone to take the ALAC seriously? --- On Fri, 9/26/08, Jacqueline A. Morris <jam@jacquelinemorris.com> wrote:

From: Jacqueline A. Morris <jam@jacquelinemorris.com> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] [At-Large] "We can't be bothered to vote; so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo" To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Cc: "NA Discuss" <na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Date: Friday, September 26, 2008, 9:45 AM Hi Danny Similar participation rate for the Vote on ratification of the Statement on GNSO Restructuring - 8 votes. Are ppl travelling or otherwise offline? I would look for reasons before assuming that they "decided to ignore" or didn't care to vote... Maybe we should ask why before assigning negative reasons? Jacqueline

I just wrote:

Of a greater overall worry to me is the fact that NARALO's continued pro-activity, combined with a clear lethargy in other regions, will again lead to sentiment that ICANN -- even in its public participation component -- is dominated by Amercians (and to a lesser extent Europeans). Is it our fault that we seem to be the only ones actually initiating anything? It seems as no coincidence that both of the candidates for ALAC Board rep are from our region.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not putting down the contributions from other regions of which there are many. On re-reading this, I can see how insult could be extracted from this where none was intended and I apologize in that case. However, it is accurate to state that in NARALO meetings we spend far more time creating initiatives, than we spend reacting to (and collaborating with) initiatives started in other regions or even from within ALAC. I find that disturbing. - Evan

I agree with this, too. How fluent one is in English makes a big difference in the way one can contribute. FWIW, I took the decision a long time ago to spend my vacations with my family, and not with my computer. So, I may miss a vote or two. I certainly would abstain to criticize the non-voters until I hear why they did not show up. Patrick On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:24:45 -0400, "Jacqueline A. Morris" <jam@jacquelinemorris.com> wrote:

You are right and I wonder if it's as LACRALO says- the language issue - English speakers are better informed in advance of issues - these are not often covered in Spanish -language blogs, documents, news etc. LACRALO, it seems to me, gets most of its ICANN news from ICANN - NARALO has a LOT of other sources, and posts on NARALO list are sometimes forwarded to other regions, but still with no translation :( Jacqueline

I agree with this, too. How fluent one is in English makes a big difference in the way one can contribute.

Indeed. The ICANN bylaws specifically say that board members and Nomcom members must be "able to work and communicate in written and spoken English." Given the realities of working with ICANN, perhaps the ALAC would work better if it encouraged the RALOs and Nomcom to select members who can work in both English and their home country languages. On the other hand, language issues don't entirely explain the participation problems, since there are several members who speak fluent English but haven't been very active. My experience in the ALAC was that the biggest problem was the stream of stuff coming at us from the rest of ICANN with unpredictable and often short schedules, and the fact that members of most (all?) of the other committees do their ICANN work as part of their day jobs, but we're all volunteers doing this in our spare time. R's, John

Alan Greenberg ha scritto:

But we also need people who can put a reasonable amount of time into ICANN as well. Certainly many ICANN volunteers can consider their ICANN work part of their paid jobs, but I know many who put a LOT of their own time into it.

In the last six years, I've seen many people come and go from the ALAC and the At Large constituency. We had plenty of problems about lack of commitment in the initial years, but over time things got better through a combination of better selections by the Nomcom, increased staff support (which means better organization and more bugging) and the introduction of rules that allowed us to kick those people who didn't participate. The bottom line, however, is that either an ALAC member is committed to serving on the ALAC, or he/she is not. In the former case, there might be valid reasons that prevent the member from participating in a call or in a vote, but this is always a rather exceptional case, and you will see that person trying to address the problem by sending comments or votes in advance, and asking for reports about what happened. However, if someone misses several calls or several votes - perhaps most calls or most votes - then it's a clear lack of commitment. There are several reasons why the commitment can go away, and not all of them deserve blame - for example, the person may have more important things to do, may have changed job, may have pressing personal issues. It's not necessarily like the person is willingly making fun of us all and of the institution. However, this does not change the bottom line. So, no evaluations should be made on just one or two votes, but six to nine months is a sufficient scale; we introduced rules that allow the ALAC to get rid of people who cannot participate; there is really no excuse for not applying them. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------

Izumi AIZU ha scritto:

Vittorio, thanks for your thoughtful comments. I have been trying to participate in ALAC as much as possible, yet the last two months I know my level of prticipation was lower than average. I got a new project to launch, among others, have to travel a lot (mostly domestically), had to deal with rather seriouos online defamation, etc etc, and even I was aware of certain events, I could not particiapte, and I also missed other events, such as one vote, as I was not paying sufficient attention. I missed to read on email and that is it.

That is why I said that you need at least six - nine months to make an evaluation. It can happen that people have a busy period; problems start to happen only when people cannot attend for half of their 2-year term or so. This can happen for very valid reasons and in complete good faith, nonetheless in this case there is a need to act, or the ALAC will not be able to function and will be criticized (as usual) as a bunch of people who are only eager to claim travel funds. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------

The last time I raised the issue that my application for a visa to Egypt may be rejected(judgment based on earlier experience of myself and colleagues with Egypt and Jordan), I met such cool reception that I assumed this was not a matter for at-large discussion. Be that as it may, now that my application has actually been rejected again, I wish to ask why international meetings have to be held at such visa-unfriendly countries? I understand Cairo is in the running for the next IGF as well. Siavash ------------------------------------------------- IPM/IRNIC P.O.Box 19395-5564, Shahid Bahonar Sq. Tehran 19548, Iran Phone: (+98 21) 22 82 80 80; 22 82 80 81, ext 113 Cell: (+98 912)104 2501 Fax: (+98 21) 22 29 57 00 Email: shahshah@irnic.ir, shahshah@nic.ir -----------------------------------------------

Hi Siavash, I'm sorry not to see you here. I hope ICANN does consider visa issues of its participants when scheduling meetings. --Wendy Siavash Shahshahani wrote:

The last time I raised the issue that my application for a visa to Egypt may be rejected(judgment based on earlier experience of myself and colleagues with Egypt and Jordan), I met such cool reception that I assumed this was not a matter for at-large discussion. Be that as it may, now that my application has actually been rejected again, I wish to ask why international meetings have to be held at such visa-unfriendly countries? I understand Cairo is in the running for the next IGF as well. Siavash

------------------------------------------------- IPM/IRNIC P.O.Box 19395-5564, Shahid Bahonar Sq. Tehran 19548, Iran Phone: (+98 21) 22 82 80 80; 22 82 80 81, ext 113 Cell: (+98 912)104 2501 Fax: (+98 21) 22 29 57 00 Email: shahshah@irnic.ir, shahshah@nic.ir -----------------------------------------------

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I was on vacation until yesterday, and that was duly notified to Nick son I couldn't vote, which I always do. I don't need to apologize to Danny or to anyone for this but I just wanted to make things clear. I put my time and my work for free on ALAC son I don`t need any smart guy to be telling me what to do. Please, do not mention my name again in any e-mail whithout consulting me first Josè Ovidio Salgueiro A. Jsalgueiro@cantv.net -----Mensaje original----- De: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de carlos aguirre Enviado el: Viernes, 26 de Septiembre de 2008 09:51 a.m. Para: At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Asunto: Re: [At-Large] the big mouth's genious My always, no friend Danny: I put my comments in spanish, in order that you make translation, as I had to translated yours. Mi siempre no amigo Danny: Como dijo Jacqueline seria bueno antes de hablar con esa enorme boca que Dios te dio, preguntar por que son las cosas. En mi caso particular y no queriendo disculparme con vos, POR QUE NO TENGO QUE HACERLO, te digo que en el periodo de votacion estaba de vacaciones y habia notificado al comite de esa situacion. En segundo lugar, jamas hubiero dicho nada, pero tus actitudes para nada comedidas me obligan a decir que jamas entendi cuando en tu comentario al JPA, dijiste que ICANN era una institucion inmadura y que no estaba en condiciones de abrirse y en donde tambien mencionaste que INTERNET era parte de la soberania de los EEUU!!!!!!!! Una barbaridad (obviamente desde mi punto de vista)!!!!!! En segundo lugar y de ahora en mas no autorizo a que menciones mi nombre otra vez, sin antes consultar. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:24:36 -0700> From: dannyyounger@yahoo.com> To: na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> CC: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: [At-Large] "We can't be bothered to vote; so just send us the travel vouchers for Cairo"> > In another fine display of participant zeal, eight ALAC members decided to ignore yet another ALAC vote -- this time on the Overview Report on the ALAC Review. Those listed below (more than half of the ALAC) did not bother to vote:> > 1 Izumi Aizu > 2 Annette Muehlberg> 3 Carlos Aguirre> 4 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro> 5 Hawa Diakite > 6 Thu Hue Nguyen> 7 Vanda Scartezini> 8 Fatimata Seye Sylla> > Kudos to the ALAC Chair for the great results obtained under the new "Remedial" participation policy. At this rate, the ALAC will be dead and buried soon. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________> At-Large mailing list> At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann .org> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _________________________________________________________________ Ingresá ya a MSN en Concierto y disfrutá los recitales en vivo de tus artistas favoritos. http://msninconcert.msn.com/music/archive/es-la/archive.aspx _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann .org At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org

I might also suggest that, IF at all possible, the header of the voting insturction will include the "Subject" of the vote we are asked to vote. The message we receive now comes under the same heading by the staff, even the subject is different, so it is easy to ignore the second or the thrid email which came closely with the first one. izumi 2008/9/28 Izumi AIZU <iza@anr.org>:

Sorry, I missed it - in part I did not pay attention, in part I was on the road and was too busy, in part the vote was closed when I found it. These are of course my excuse.

If I could have voted, I would have voted yes.

izumi

2008/9/26 Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com>:

...

In another fine display of participant zeal, eight ALAC members decided to ignore yet another ALAC vote -- this time on the Overview Report on the ALAC Review. Those listed below (more than half of the ALAC) did not bother to vote:

1 Izumi Aizu 2 Annette Muehlberg 3 Carlos Aguirre 4 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro 5 Hawa Diakite 6 Thu Hue Nguyen 7 Vanda Scartezini 8 Fatimata Seye Sylla

Kudos to the ALAC Chair for the great results obtained under the new "Remedial" participation policy. At this rate, the ALAC will be dead and buried soon.

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-- >> Izumi Aizu <<

Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo

Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org

-- >> Izumi Aizu << Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org

Hello All, I am in Senegal these days, with electricity shortage every now and then, meaning no continuous internet access. It is very difficult for me to keep up with the many many mails I am receiving. Sometimes it is not even possible to finish reading and replying to 2 mails and the electricity is gone. The situation is right now very bad here. Today (a Sunday), I have electricity and I am able to read your mails. I am very sorry because I wanted to vote Yes but just couldn't do it. When it comes to urgent issues like this and we can't participate via email, is it possible to call us to enquire? If this is too demanding, don't bother. Best, Fatimata On 9/28/08, Nick Ashton-Hart <Nick.Ashton-Hart@icann.org> wrote:

Dear Izumi:

Thanks for your suggestions. For your information, we changed the way in which voting notices were sent out in order to help prevent them from going in people's spam filters; you may recall that we were all informed that one or two members informed us all that they had not seen notices for this reason.

We do often send reminders that votes are closing near the closing time as well.

I understand that you are all volunteers, however, there is only so much that systems can do to help remind Members to vote when ballots are open.

On 28/09/2008 08:17, "Izumi Aizu" <iza@anr.org> wrote:

I might also suggest that, IF at all possible, the header of the voting insturction will include the "Subject" of the vote we are asked to vote. The message we receive now comes under the same heading by the staff, even the subject is different, so it is easy to ignore the second or the thrid email which came closely with the first one.

izumi

2008/9/28 Izumi AIZU <iza@anr.org>:

...

Sorry, I missed it - in part I did not pay attention, in part I was on the road and was too busy, in part the vote was closed when I found it. These are of course my excuse.

If I could have voted, I would have voted yes.

izumi

2008/9/26 Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com>:

...

In another fine display of participant zeal, eight ALAC members decided to ignore yet another ALAC vote -- this time on the Overview Report on the ALAC Review. Those listed below (more than half of the ALAC) did not bother to vote:

1 Izumi Aizu 2 Annette Muehlberg 3 Carlos Aguirre 4 Jose Ovidio Salgueiro 5 Hawa Diakite 6 Thu Hue Nguyen 7 Vanda Scartezini 8 Fatimata Seye Sylla

Kudos to the ALAC Chair for the great results obtained under the new "Remedial" participation policy. At this rate, the ALAC will be dead and buried soon.

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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...

...

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-- >> Izumi Aizu <<

Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo

Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org

-- >> Izumi Aizu <<

Institute for InfoSocionomics, Tama University, Tokyo

Institute for HyperNetwork Society, Oita, Japan * * * * * << Writing the Future of the History >> www.anr.org

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Regards,

Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88 USA DD: +1 (310) 578-8637 Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

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