Now, for the next big thing
ICANN is focused so hard on the money-making gTLD launch that it may have taken its eye off the ball in a globally far-more-important function (IMO), ensuring the world doesn't run out of IP addresses. Do we have a role to play in putting this back on ICANN's agenda as its #1 issue going forward? TLDs just affects the directory services, and the scarcity is arguably artificial. Availability of IP addresses is a real issue that affects availability and connectivity, which to me is fundamentally more important than domain names. What is ICANN doing on, and to promote awareness of, June 6?<http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ipv6-countdown-to-launch.html> - Evan
Probably no interest until somebody figures how to Trademark an IP address and claim ownership to it, so when the DHCP server assigns it to somebody else, she/he will sue you for Trademark violation. I'd probably bet that there are several attorneys out there trying to figure how to milk the IP address space, particularly now that IPv4 space is becoming scarce and there is an emerging market for it. -J On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:33 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
ICANN is focused so hard on the money-making gTLD launch that it may have taken its eye off the ball in a globally far-more-important function (IMO), ensuring the world doesn't run out of IP addresses.
Do we have a role to play in putting this back on ICANN's agenda as its #1 issue going forward?
TLDs just affects the directory services, and the scarcity is arguably artificial. Availability of IP addresses is a real issue that affects availability and connectivity, which to me is fundamentally more important than domain names.
What is ICANN doing on, and to promote awareness of, June 6?<http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ipv6-countdown-to-launch.html>
- Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Probably no interest until somebody figures how to Trademark an IP address and claim ownership to it
I fear you're right, which just shows how totally corrupt and venal ICANN is. ICANN runs IANA, which is the ultimate allocator of IP space. If they were doing their job, which they somewhat did when Vint was chair, they would be pushing IPv6 implementation to limit the instability due to kludges as people overload their limited IPv4 space. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
"ICANN runs IANA" the same way that "ISOC runs IETF" Once you understand that, you understand why IP is never really on ICANN agenda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, 18 January, 2012 12:36:17 PM Subject: Re: [At-Large] Now, for the next big thing
Probably no interest until somebody figures how to Trademark an IP address and claim ownership to it
I fear you're right, which just shows how totally corrupt and venal ICANN is. ICANN runs IANA, which is the ultimate allocator of IP space. If they were doing their job, which they somewhat did when Vint was chair, they would be pushing IPv6 implementation to limit the instability due to kludges as people overload their limited IPv4 space.
Actually I don't think that "ICANN runs IANA". The USG "runs" IANA being ICANN a contractor to fund and manage its operations. I'd hope that besides being sort of the "custodian" of the DNSSEC root keys and in charge of somehow manage the process for their generation, ICANN does not assume any day-to-day operational role of any piece of Internet infrastructure. Going back to the IP address space, some people still argue that there is not a big compelling business case to put IPv6 deployment as a top priority, ie. how much money I can make by doing it ? others (as the Japanese since day one) see it as an strategic move to have a technological and market advantage, but overall the rate of deployment and adoption is very low, particularly in the US.
From the different pieces that are part of the Internet infrastructure puzzle is easy to note that the DNS has been highly monetized, given that it has created a multibillion dollar industry, IP address space by itself has no value given that without routing an IP prefix is useless, so there is some monetization associated with routing (have you ever seen how funny some peering agreements are ?), now scarcity of IPv4 space will make it a rare commodity, then those who still need address space to keep growing at a lower cost than having to deploy IPv6 will be open to trade and put some value to it. In the past (I've been involved in many ISP/WH acquisitions) IP address space was not considered an asset with incidence on the valuation of the company to be acquired, we even went to the painful process to renumber big chunks of old IPv4 space for better CIDR aggregation, today some acquisitions are driven and valued based on how big an IPv4 address chunk the prospect company may have.
There is not much money to milk out of the IP address space as it is from DNS, then the ICANN ecosystem will not pay much attention to it. I don't think that you will ever see any T-Shirts with an IPv6 prefix as you see dotSH1T or similar being wear on ICANN's meetings. What ICANN can do ? Probably not much, it may probably put some budget to be "politically correct" and do some noise promoting the adoption of IPv6, and at least make sure that the DNS infrastructure supports it (there are still many TLDs that have ZERO servers with IPv6 addresses), My .02 -J On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Franck Martin <franck.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
"ICANN runs IANA" the same way that "ISOC runs IETF"
Once you understand that, you understand why IP is never really on ICANN agenda.
----- Original Message ----- From: "John R. Levine" <johnl@iecc.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, 18 January, 2012 12:36:17 PM Subject: Re: [At-Large] Now, for the next big thing
Probably no interest until somebody figures how to Trademark an IP address and claim ownership to it
I fear you're right, which just shows how totally corrupt and venal ICANN is.
ICANN runs IANA, which is the ultimate allocator of IP space. If they were doing their job, which they somewhat did when Vint was chair, they would be pushing IPv6 implementation to limit the instability due to kludges as people overload their limited IPv4 space. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Do you understand the relationship between ISOC and IETF? This is a similar relationship between ICANN and IANA. And that was my point. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Amodio" <jmamodio@gmail.com> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Wednesday, 18 January, 2012 8:54:00 PM Subject: Re: [At-Large] Now, for the next big thing Actually I don't think that "ICANN runs IANA".
Do you understand the relationship between ISOC and IETF? This is a similar relationship between ICANN and IANA.
Sure I do, I was in Copenhagen in 1991 when it was proposed, have being one of the pioneer members since launched in 1992, and started the ISOC AR Chapter in 1995. IMHO IETF and IANA are slightly different type of animals, so ISOC (even as it changed over time) are different type of zookeepers. While IETF has been invaded with attorneys, trolls, lobbyists and IP issues (no the addresses), ICANN is full of it. The spirit and idea behind the creation of both organizations was essentially to create a protective umbrella for the activities of IETF and IANA, IANA initially was under ISOC's umbrella and Jon's direction, when DNS became a big thing and pressure mounted to take control of it (don't know how many know when Postel tried a move to get it out of the hands of the USG) and expand the name space ICANN was born, but it turned to be an organization quite different than the one envisioned in the early days, one that after ten years still keeps discussing how to define its constituency and creating all sorts of smoke screens to argue that the multistakeholder model works. Just my opinion -J
Interesting how many of the early adopters / pioneers are unconvinced by the direction of travel of ICANN. Is this down to interpretations of what constitutes a multi-stakeholder model? Christian On 19 Jan 2012, at 12:22, Jorge Amodio wrote:
Do you understand the relationship between ISOC and IETF? This is a similar relationship between ICANN and IANA.
Sure I do, I was in Copenhagen in 1991 when it was proposed, have being one of the pioneer members since launched in 1992, and started the ISOC AR Chapter in 1995.
IMHO IETF and IANA are slightly different type of animals, so ISOC (even as it changed over time) are different type of zookeepers.
While IETF has been invaded with attorneys, trolls, lobbyists and IP issues (no the addresses), ICANN is full of it.
The spirit and idea behind the creation of both organizations was essentially to create a protective umbrella for the activities of IETF and IANA, IANA initially was under ISOC's umbrella and Jon's direction, when DNS became a big thing and pressure mounted to take control of it (don't know how many know when Postel tried a move to get it out of the hands of the USG) and expand the name space ICANN was born, but it turned to be an organization quite different than the one envisioned in the early days, one that after ten years still keeps discussing how to define its constituency and creating all sorts of smoke screens to argue that the multistakeholder model works.
Just my opinion -J _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Do you understand the relationship between ISOC and IETF? This is a similar relationship between ICANN and IANA.
IANA is run by paid full-time ICANN employees. The IETF is 99% volunteers, with the ISOC involvement rather distant from its day to day technical operations. (We can have an argument about the role of the RFC Editor.) If you look at the history, ICANN used to be a lot more active in IPv6 advocacy than they have been since they've been fixated on selling $185,000 vanity domains. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Jorge Amodio <jmamodio@gmail.com> wrote:
Probably no interest until somebody figures how to Trademark an IP address and claim ownership to it, so when the DHCP server assigns it to somebody else, she/he will sue you for Trademark violation. I'd probably bet that there are several attorneys out there trying to figure how to milk the IP address space, particularly now that IPv4 space is becoming scarce and there is an emerging market for it.
-J
WIPO published a Report on Intellectual Property on the Internet: A Survey of Issues which you can access via http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/ The report contains the following:- - Introduction<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/introduction.html> - I. The Internet and the Development of the Digital Society<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap1.html> - II. The Migration of Intellectual Property to the Internet<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap2.html> - III. The Impact of the Internet on Intellectual Property Law<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap3.html> - - (A)Copyright and Related Rights<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap3.html#3a> - (B)Trademarks and Other Rights in Distinctive Signs<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap3.html#3b> - (C)Domain Names<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap3.html#3c> - (D)Patents<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap3.html#3d> - IV. The Role of Private International Law and Alternative Dispute Resolution<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap4.html> - V. Issues for Developing Countries in the Digital Environment<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap5.html> - VI. Digital Delivery of Intellectual Property Services<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap6.html> - VII. The WIPO Digital Agenda<http://www.wipo.int/copyright/en/ecommerce/ip_survey/chap7.html>
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 8:33 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
ICANN is focused so hard on the money-making gTLD launch that it may have taken its eye off the ball in a globally far-more-important function (IMO), ensuring the world doesn't run out of IP addresses.
Do we have a role to play in putting this back on ICANN's agenda as its #1 issue going forward?
TLDs just affects the directory services, and the scarcity is arguably artificial. Availability of IP addresses is a real issue that affects availability and connectivity, which to me is fundamentally more important than domain names.
What is ICANN doing on, and to promote awareness of, June 6?<http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ipv6-countdown-to-launch.html>
- Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala Tweeter: @SalanietaT Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Cell: +679 998 2851
I would say, in favour of ICANN ,that policies around IP addresses are very much in the hands of RIRs. As you say, there is no money to be made. IP addresses are not a distinctive sign. No-one cares which IP addresses he/she gets, as long as they get enough and are routeable. This is outside ICANN's remit. ICANN has sent out some messages to raise awareness last year. They enabled IPv6 on the L-root and IANA/ICANN Internet-facing infrastructure . They are acting as examplary in this case. They could send out a message saying they support and applaud to ISOC's initiative, make some noise around it, etc. I am afraid that will not help much. It is your/my ISP that needs to get involved. Patrick On 18/01/12 15:33, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
ICANN is focused so hard on the money-making gTLD launch that it may have taken its eye off the ball in a globally far-more-important function (IMO), ensuring the world doesn't run out of IP addresses.
Do we have a role to play in putting this back on ICANN's agenda as its #1 issue going forward?
TLDs just affects the directory services, and the scarcity is arguably artificial. Availability of IP addresses is a real issue that affects availability and connectivity, which to me is fundamentally more important than domain names.
What is ICANN doing on, and to promote awareness of, June 6?<http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ipv6-countdown-to-launch.html>
Didn't you hear? IPv4 is so over! http://www.worldipv6launch.org/ j On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
ICANN is focused so hard on the money-making gTLD launch that it may have taken its eye off the ball in a globally far-more-important function (IMO), ensuring the world doesn't run out of IP addresses.
Do we have a role to play in putting this back on ICANN's agenda as its #1 issue going forward?
TLDs just affects the directory services, and the scarcity is arguably artificial. Availability of IP addresses is a real issue that affects availability and connectivity, which to me is fundamentally more important than domain names.
What is ICANN doing on, and to promote awareness of, June 6?<http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/ipv6-countdown-to-launch.html>
- Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:31 PM, Joly MacFie <joly@punkcast.com> wrote:
Didn't you hear? IPv4 is so over!
Sure, you tell that to the 6+ billion users minus N x customers x 7 ISPs on the list ... Also if you take a look at the root zone file you will see that many ccTLDS have no single or just a single NS with AAAA records. Something that could be nice is ICANN paying for my new CPE router with IPv6 support. -J
Something that could be nice is ICANN paying for my new CPE router with IPv6 support.
Yeah, and one for my cash-strapped ISP, too. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Something that could be nice is ICANN paying for my new CPE router with IPv6 support.
Yeah, and one for my cash-strapped ISP, too.
Don't worry about them, they will go broke after SOPA passes Congress or a three letter agency confiscates all they routers for moving "infringing" packets. Here is a good reference/stats about IPv6 adoption worldwide: http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics/ -J
On 19 Jan 2012, at 16:31, Joly MacFie wrote:
Didn't you hear? IPv4 is so over!
yes. has been for over a decade. didn't you notice? avri
participants (9)
-
Avri Doria -
Christian de Larrinaga -
Evan Leibovitch -
Franck Martin -
John R. Levine -
Joly MacFie -
Jorge Amodio -
Patrick Vande Walle -
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro