Michael, without commenting on the relevance of ICANN's use of the term "individual user", I fail to see how the access modalities alter the concept of user. Most of my non-ICANN professional attention is on the developing world. The vast majority of people use some form of shared access, often a cyber cafe or a university lab. I don't understand why that disenfranchises them any more than it does a university student in Ohio or my 92 year old aunt if she uses her daughter's connection. The user is someone who uses the network. Now there are plenty of reasons to say that some shared access users, particularly those with low-bandwidth connections are being ignored and perhaps disenfranchised, but in my mind, ICANN's user definition does not seem to be one of them. Alan At 5/22/2007 02:13 AM, Michael Gurstein wrote:

I must say that I really do find this notion of "individual Internet users" as somehow being the basic level of Internet access/use granularity really quite culture (geography/ideology) bound...

As I said in an earlier extended exchange on this, for most of the world the basic level of Internet access/use is not "the individual" user but rather some form of hybrid collaborative/collective use/user whether through family use, telecenter use, even multiple semi-anonymous use in cybercafes.

That this notion was written into the ICANN bylaws simply shows how narrow was the group that was originally involved in the processes through which those mechanisms were established. I don't have the time or energy at the moment to launch a personal crusade around this issue but perhaps we could at least recognize that those notions make only marginal sense in practice and that even in the case of Canada and the TC application, the reality of Internet use will need to expand to include the group and the collective and that as I understand it is all that TC is saying.

MG

-----Original Message----- From: na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: May 21, 2007 7:02 AM To: Luc Faubert; Alan Greenberg Cc: At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Reason for NO vote for Telecommunities Canada'sALS application

Luc,

The ICANN bylaws stipulate:

The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large Structures shall be established in such a way that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO

Telecommunities Canada describes itself as a sort of "holding company" comprised of multiple organizational members whose activities predominate in the operation of TC; individual Internet users (remember them?) are not the predominant factors in TC's operation (per their own admission).

Alan was correct in rejecting their application. The better question is why did others approve the application that was deficient on its face?

--- Luc Faubert <LFaubert@conceptum.ca> wrote:

...

Hi Alan,

May I ask why you voted NO for Telecommunities Canada's ALS application?

Telecommunities Canada is one of the (if not the) foremost organizations doing work related to the Internet in Canada. TC has been working tirelessly for almost 15 years, advancing the cause of Internet use and penetration in Canada.

Regards,

_________________________________________ Luc Faubert Conseiller en gouvernance TI et en gestion du changement / IT governance and change management consulting +1 514 236 5129 www.LucFaubert.com www.LucFaubert.com/blog www.isoc.qc.ca www.ccig.ca www.uqbm.qc.ca www.maillons.qc.ca

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