Great discussion points to raise at the CPWG meeting which I believe has still been called for next week (at 3am for me) despite some participants being unable to attend. The show must go on (I'm sure JZ would say!) M On Fri, 22 Nov 2019, 9:18 AM Carlos Raul Gutierrez, <carlosraul@gutierrez.se> wrote:

Maureen!

As far a colored lights go: We started the discussion this week in CPWG and I can recall the following:

1) The CPWG Chairs suggested a single topic call on the issue. I'm not sure this will take place in the next call. I think everyone agreed that wee need a common, minimum level of information before we can have an organized discussion (instead of a flow of opinions).

2. I also understand that ISOC's board will have a meeting this weekend around the IGF. As the ISOC chapters have representatives in that Board, I would expect them to provide the rationale of their (unanimous?) consent to the transaction as a basic input to the single topic CPWG meeting, whenever it takes place. Hopefully next Wednesday.

3. I would also call for any other ALS that want to add their inputs (and eventually opinions) to the single topic CPWG

Hopefully all this pending info will allow us choose a color and decide if the issue is (still) within our narrow remit now to take positions, or if we should take the opportunity to be better prepared for ALAC's comments on the Sub-Pro PDP and make sure that this time we don't get surprised by the unintended consequences of previous PDPs (like the 2012 AGB and the transition ones in particular)....

In any case, from the last 41 minutes or so of this week's of the CPWG call (under Zuck) you will get a clear feeling of how unclear the basics of the deal are to most of us.

Thanks! Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez

El 22 nov. 2019 12:46, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> escribió:

re: https://savedotorg.org

I would just need the go-ahead from CPWG - put our hands up and be counted if we feel strongly enough about this on behalf of the non-profit end-users who will be impacted by this decision.. We asked for change agents and thought leaders in Montreal. We should take the lead.

M

On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 8:41 AM Evan Leibovitch <evanleibovitch@gmail.com> wrote:

Have a look at https://savedotorg.org

Interesting list of signatories. Perhaps ALAC should endorse?

___________________ Evan Leibovitch, Toronto @evanleibovitch/@el56

On Fri., Nov. 22, 2019, 1:16 p.m. Dev Anand Teelucksingh, < devtee@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/11/nonprofit-community-stands-together-pr... _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg

Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

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_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Me tooAlberto Obtener Outlook para iOS On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 7:08 PM -0300, "John Laprise" <jlaprise@gmail.com> wrote: I'm in. Sent from my Pixel 3XL John Laprise, Ph.D. On Fri, Nov 22, 2019, 12:47 PM Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote: re: https://savedotorg.org I would just need the go-ahead from CPWG - put our hands up and be counted if we feel strongly enough about this on behalf of the non-profit end-users who will be impacted by this decision.. We asked for change agents and thought leaders in Montreal. We should take the lead. M On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 8:41 AM Evan Leibovitch <evanleibovitch@gmail.com> wrote: Have a look at https://savedotorg.org Interesting list of signatories. Perhaps ALAC should endorse? ___________________ Evan Leibovitch, Toronto @evanleibovitch/@el56 On Fri., Nov. 22, 2019, 1:16 p.m. Dev Anand Teelucksingh, <devtee@gmail.com> wrote: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/11/nonprofit-community-stands-together-pr... _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Agree Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> ________________________________ From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <mail.roberto.gaetano@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 7:32:47 PM To: Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> Cc: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>; At Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] [CPWG] [GTLD-WG] EFF : Nonprofit Community Stands Together to Protect .ORG Replying to Maureen’s initial question, I think that before signing off a document against the sale of PIR I believe that we need to understand why we are against this sale. Personally, my motivation has nothing to do with the risk of price increase - I think that I made it clear when submitting comments about the .org contract renewal, well before the fate of PIR was known. My being upset is because this transaction, based on purely financial considerations, has broken the trust that ISOC was the champion of the interests of a wide community, spanning from individual users to the non-profit community, and that would have continued playing that role supporting a registry that was providing a safe harbour for those folks. The trust was not based on the dollar more, dollar less, of the yearly fees, but on the stance that PIR had about practices of an industry dominated by commercial interests. I believe that we need to have a deep discussion among ourselves before taking a decision, that should not result in a simple signature under a document, but a motivated argumentation. If and when we do this, there will be no problem in finding ourselves in the company of odd bedfellows - if OTOH we do not do this preliminary work the risk of being confused with other commercial interests and having our voice diluted, if not even misunderstood, is quite high. Cheers, Roberto On 22.11.2019, at 19:46, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: re: https://savedotorg.org<https://savedotorg.org/> I would just need the go-ahead from CPWG - put our hands up and be counted if we feel strongly enough about this on behalf of the non-profit end-users who will be impacted by this decision.. We asked for change agents and thought leaders in Montreal. We should take the lead. M On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 8:41 AM Evan Leibovitch <evanleibovitch@gmail.com<mailto:evanleibovitch@gmail.com>> wrote: Have a look at https://savedotorg.org<https://savedotorg.org/> Interesting list of signatories. Perhaps ALAC should endorse? ___________________ Evan Leibovitch, Toronto @evanleibovitch/@el56 On Fri., Nov. 22, 2019, 1:16 p.m. Dev Anand Teelucksingh, <devtee@gmail.com<mailto:devtee@gmail.com>> wrote: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/11/nonprofit-community-stands-together-pr... _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Likewise.   Not only a breach of trust, but since this transfer was obviously under consideration for some time, a certain lack of candor on the part of ISOC in the discussions leading up to the decision by ICANN. Bill Jouris On Friday, November 22, 2019, 04:32:53 PM PST, Roberto Gaetano <mail.roberto.gaetano@gmail.com> wrote: Replying to Maureen’s initial question, I think that before signing off a document against the sale of PIR I believe that we need to understand why we are against this sale.Personally, my motivation has nothing to do with the risk of price increase - I think that I made it clear when submitting comments about the .org contract renewal, well before the fate of PIR was known.My being upset is because this transaction, based on purely financial considerations, has broken the trust that ISOC was the champion of the interests of a wide community, spanning from individual users to the non-profit community, and that would have continued playing that role supporting a registry that was providing a safe harbour for those folks. The trust was not based on the dollar more, dollar less, of the yearly fees, but on the stance that PIR had about practices of an industry dominated by commercial interests.I believe that we need to have a deep discussion among ourselves before taking a decision, that should not result in a simple signature under a document, but a motivated argumentation. If and when we do this, there will be no problem in finding ourselves in the company of odd bedfellows - if OTOH we do not do this preliminary work the risk of being confused with other commercial interests and having our voice diluted, if not even misunderstood, is quite high.Cheers,Roberto On 22.11.2019, at 19:46, Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote: re: https://savedotorg.org I would just need the go-ahead from CPWG - put our hands up and be counted if we feel strongly enough about this on behalf of the non-profit end-users who will be impacted by this decision.. We asked for change agents and thought leaders in Montreal. We should take the lead. M On Fri, Nov 22, 2019 at 8:41 AM Evan Leibovitch <evanleibovitch@gmail.com> wrote: Have a look at https://savedotorg.org Interesting list of signatories. Perhaps ALAC should endorse? ___________________ Evan Leibovitch, Toronto @evanleibovitch/@el56 On Fri., Nov. 22, 2019, 1:16 p.m. Dev Anand Teelucksingh, <devtee@gmail.com> wrote: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/11/nonprofit-community-stands-together-pr... CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.