From: "Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us>
To: Mike O'Connor <mike@haven2.com>
CC: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>, Roberto Gaetano
<roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org>,
"Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <michele@blacknight.com>, "rickert@anwaelte.de"
<rickert@anwaelte.de>, Chuck Gomes <cgomes@verisign.com>,
"jbladel@godaddy.com" <jbladel@godaddy.com>, Paul Diaz <pdiaz@pir.org>,
"Avri Doria" <avri@ella.com>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org>,
"Larisa B. Gurnick" <larisa.gurnick@icann.org>, Charla Shambley
<charla.shambley@icann.org>, Brian Cute <bcute@pir.org>
Subject: Re: PDP - Discussion with ATRT2
Thread-Topic: PDP - Discussion with ATRT2
Thread-Index: AQHOlJIjWjS0qj0k+EWGpSOx5GhqaJmMF7hz
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 01:33:21 +0000
Accept-Language: en-US
All,
Some good discussions are taking place here and I wish I had the time to devote to the lengthy emails. I just noticed the discussion board ultimatums and although there have been some positive views expressed on them, I believe that they have failed to produce anything even remotely useful in policy development. In fact, they have had a much worse effect than letting things play out in a working group. The VI ultimatums actually in my view caused what was heading towards a workable compromise to fall flat on its face and prevent that emerging consensus from coming through. Worse yet, the Board resolution, which was ultimately implemented, and will be in practice soon, will demonstrate how bad of a job the top down decision actually was (in my view). But that is a whole separate story
I will be happy to explain on the call exactly what happened as the chair of the ATRT remembers quite well (sorry Brian).
Also Alan with PEDNR although you remember what happened during the PDP, what has not come out of this discussion was the fact that none of the contracted parties felt the issue merited a PDP in the first place. But with the incredibly small thresholds to start a PDP, the PDP began. Perhaps one could argue that the PDP should never have started in the first place (an argument for higher thresholds). You can't force a multi stakeholder process to work when many of the stakeholder have no incentive or desire to address an issue. So, it was not surprising at all when the PDP dragged on and took forever to get just a small outcome, and that the parties were not incented to come to a compromise.
I have many other thoughts, but again a lack of time to document, so I welcome the calls to discuss the issues. And by the way, I continue to believe that the PDP process is not broken. And I also believe that the VI process, or for that matter, and policy process related to the new gTLDs are not the ones we should use to judge the PDP. Finally, we cannot forget that the formal PDP is not and should not be the only way for policy development in the GNSO.
Thanks.
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:51 PM, "Mike O'Connor" <mike@haven2.com> wrote:
i'm sorry to hear that my VI Senior co-chair Roberto won't be able to make the call. is there any way to add some options so that he can attend?
several points to amplify about "complicated" WGs:
-- in my view it would be helpful if they were chartered with that "complicated" aspect in mind (i.e. more resources, healthy dose of senior participants, aggressive recruiting, facilitation/mediation options available, etc.). we may want to think about the upcoming Policy and Implementation Working Group in that light.
-- i agree with Roberto (as i always do) -- in VI, we made a lot of progress in a face-to-face session facilitated by an amateur (me). i take the blame for losing a whole lot of ground in a face-to-face meeting later in the week where we were all tired and shouldn't have been meeting. better-planned sessions, held outside of the stressful week of an ICANN meeting, planned and led by somebody who knew what they were doing, might have captured a consensus.
-- i think using Board ultimatums is probably not the best way to motivate WGs, especially if those rules of engagement are fluid. neither the STI nor the GNSO re-org were working-groups, so i didn't participate and don't have a direct comment. but i've participated in a bunch of working groups and none of them have benefited by being tinkered with by the Board. the latest example is the cross-AC/SO DNS Security and Stability Analysis working group. Olivier can fill you in on the gory details.
-- one of the pieces that was never completed in the new GNSO PDP was a self-assessment cycle for WGs as they are wrapping up. the Standing Committee on Improvements is near the end of developing that instrument and is planning to test it very soon. i think the results of those questionnaires will be a big help to other WG chairs, and the questions we ask will also give chairs a big hint on what they should (and shouldn't) be doing. here's a link to the draft -- it's likely to change a bit once we've run it through a test cycle:
http://scitestwg.questionpro.com/
On Aug 8, 2013, at 6:06 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca > wrote:
Roberto, and Mikey and others,
A question.
On an issue such as VI, where both emotions and investments are heavy, what is the incentive for participants to make concessions and try to find some middle ground.
Although it didn't work, perhaps as Mikey identified due to timing and changing time-lines, in the past the incentive has been a Board ultimatum that a compromise be found by a certain date or else, with or else being that the Board will decide and you may not like what they do. It worked with the STI, and also with the GNSO re-org (although perhaps with a questionable outcome in that case).
Some Board members have been prepared to do that as they eventually did with VI, but others have said that the only such decisions that the Board should make should be do-no-harm interim decisions and punt back to the GNSO as it has done with the IDO/INGO protection.
Without a threat hanging over heads, can the process work? Even as Roberto suggests, with F2F meeting and professional facilitation.
Alan
At 08/08/2013 06:07 PM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
Sorry, I will be unable to make the 14 August call, I will be available only in the late evening (CET) that is not one of the option offered.
However, I would like to contribute to the discussion prior to the call. I have no problem in having my comments posted publicly.
I will articulate a better contribution tomorrow, but for the time being I would like to make the following points:
· Agree with Mikey on incentivating more participation by new people
· The charter has to be defined clearly, but not only – it has to be very clear what will be the process after the conclusion of the WG (in the VI-WG we spent hours to discuss “what will happen next if we don’t reach consensus” – I’ll elaborate in a follow up post on why this is important
· On “complicated” WGs, resources are necessary, still quoting the VI experience, much progress has been made in a F2F meeting
· As part of the GNSO Review, we stated that some resources should be made available for the WG Chairs – this is important when the WG is “complicated” – I am sure that in the final report of the GNSO Review WG we mentioned training for the Chairpersons, use of facilitators, and so on
· To the best of my knowledge, there are “lessons learned” sessions, but there has never been an effort to share experiences among WG Chairs or record for the upcoming WGs what went OK and what went wrong in previous WGs, successful tricks used, approaches that brought deadlocks, a.s.o. – much is left to the “oral tradition” and to the memory of the WG members
· For the “certain stakeholders have not been able to adequately participate” issue, I have my own opinions, it is also linked with the “chair warming” issue – since this comment is going to be public, I will wait until my mind is fresh and I will be able to articulate my thoughts in a politically correct way
Please be aware that I have not been active in the PDP process for more than one year, and therefore I might have raised points that are currently incorrect or superseded by events.
Best regards,
Roberto
Da: Alice Jansen [ mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org]
Inviato: mercoledì 7 agosto 2013 15:04
A: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; rickert@anwaelte.de; mike@haven2.com; Chuck Gomes; jbladel@godaddy.com; Paul Diaz; roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com; jeff.neuman@neustar.biz; Avri Doria; Alan Greenberg
Cc: Marika Konings; Larisa B. Gurnick; Charla Shambley; Brian Cute
Oggetto: PDP - Discussion with ATRT2
Priorità: Alta
Dear All,
It is my understanding that my colleague Charla has been touched with you to schedule a call with the Second Accountability & Transparency Review Team (ATRT2).
The ATRT2's activities are focused on paragraph 9.1 of the AoC where ICANN commits to maintain and improve robust mechanisms for public input, accountability, and transparency so as to ensure that the outcomes of its decision-making will reflect the public interest and be accountable to all stakeholders. As part of its mandate, the ATRT has decided to review the effectiveness of ICANN Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) Policy Development Process (PDP) and so determine whether the current GNSO PDP process satisfies the needs of the multi stakeholder model and Internet users. Given your experience and expertise, the ATRT2 is interested in hearing your thoughts and wishes you to share your unique perspective with them.
The ATRT2 has a face-to-face meeting scheduled for next week (14–15–16 August) in Los Angeles. Would you be available - tentatively on Wednesday, 14 August - to join their session remotely? Please confirm your availability via http://www.doodle.com/x9nk6czhz2exvsyh by Thursday, 8 August – COB.
The Review Team has received your request for preparatory materials. Rest assured that we will provide you with more information as soon as available.
I look forward to reading your doodle poll entries and thank you for your help. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Thanks
Very best regards
Alice
----
Alice Jansen
Strategic Initiatives Manager
ICANN
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