I do think that there are strong sensitivities. I already proposed a more genteel approach for understanding the CCNSO's views and priorities, which I didn't see any forthcoming interest in. I stand behind my suggestion for focusing on gTLDs, and proceeding with a more collaborative approach in engaging w ccNSO. As noted, I can suppot Marie's language. But also, the CSG has discussed having the Cross Constituency bkft w the CCNSO in BA. If so, the topics will likely be ICANN governance and budget, Strat plan. But a good opportunity to have civil engagements. . Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: john@crediblecontext.com Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 01:02:31 To: <stephvg@gmail.com>; <susank@fb.com> Cc: <jscottevans@yahoo.com>; <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com>; <sdelbianco@netchoice.org>; <bc-gnso@icann.org> Subject: RE: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois) Stephane,   As you know, I am not afraid to light a fuse, but make no mistake in my judgement that this will be lighting a fuse.  Perhaps we can let Byron (new chair of the ccNSO council know what we are up to.  I would be more than happy to make the contact as he is Canadian and will likely take it politely if not well.   Cheers,   Berard   --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois) From: stephvg@gmail.com Date: 8/5/13 4:58 pm To: "Susan Kawaguchi" <susank@fb.com> Cc: "J. Scott Evans" <jscottevans@yahoo.com>, "john@crediblecontext.com" <john@crediblecontext.com>, "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com>, "Steve DelBianco" <sdelbianco@netchoice.org>, "bc-gnso@icann.org list" <bc-gnso@icann.org> I understand the sentiments expressed by John and Susan.   However, I would think it a pity that the ICANN community as a whole once again decides to shy away completely from any attempt at bringing some common sense into the g and cc coexistence.   For me, at a time when so many ccs are either already behaving as gs or about to manage some new gTLDs themselves, I think it is not unreasonable to suggest that both namespaces look towards some way of finding a common approach on registration data.   I also think that the BC, as the home of business in the ICANN ecosystem, would be behaving in a responsible manner to its constituents by highlighting this fact in this instance.   I believe the language I have suggested is soft enough not to appear aggressive for cc managers.   So I would suggest we have a good opportunity here to get a common sense message across.   Thanks, Stéphane Van Gelder Chairman and Managing Director/Fondateur STEPHANE VAN GELDER CONSULTING T (FR): +33 (0)6 20 40 55 89 T (UK): +44 (0)7583 457053 Skype: SVANGELDER www.StephaneVanGelder.com <http://www.stephanevangelder.com/> ---------------- Follow us on Twitter: @stephvg and "like" us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DomainConsultant <http://www.facebook.com/DomainConsultant> LinkedIn:  <http://fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/> fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/ Le 6 août 2013 à 00:58, Susan Kawaguchi <susank@fb.com <mailto:susank@fb.com> > a écrit : I agree with John, we have been very careful on the EWG to look at the ccTlds and how they manage the domain name record data but our mandate did not include looking at  ccTld registration data for this database.  I think we already have a steep uphill climb for gTlds and we may want to leave the ccTlds out of it for now.   Normal 0 false false false EN-US JA X-NONE Normal 0 false false false EN-US JA X-NONE       Susan Kawaguchi Domain Name Manager Facebook Legal Dept.   Phone - 650 485-6064         From: "J. Scott Evans" <jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com> > Reply-To: "J. Scott Evans" <jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com> > Date: Monday, August 5, 2013 3:52 PM To: "john@crediblecontext.com <mailto:john@crediblecontext.com> " <john@crediblecontext.com <mailto:john@crediblecontext.com> >, "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com <mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> >, "stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> " <stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> > Cc: Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org <mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org> >, "bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> list" <bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> > Subject: Re: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois)   John: Thanks for the comment.  That's just the kind of dialogue I am looking for here.  Others? J. Scott     j. scott evans -  head of global brand, domains & copyright - Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com>       ---------------- From: "john@crediblecontext.com <mailto:john@crediblecontext.com> " <john@crediblecontext.com <mailto:john@crediblecontext.com> > To: J. Scott Evans <jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com> >; "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com <mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> >; stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> Cc: Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org <mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org> >; "bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> list" <bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> > Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 3:37 PM Subject: RE: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois) J. Scott, et. al.,   With regard to whether it will be a political bombshell or not, I cannot say, but as the GNSO Council liaison to the ccNSO Council I have come to appreciate the bright line they draw between the "g" and the "cc" name space.  I suspect that even if Stephane's suggestion would not be the incendiary device you foretell, it would be a distraction from the more urgent matter of solving the directory services problem for the the gTLDs.  I would vote not to include the language.   My two cents.   Berard   --------- Original Message --------- Subject: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois) From: "J. Scott Evans" <jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com> > Date: 8/5/13 3:25 pm To: "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com <mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> >, stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> Cc: "Steve DelBianco" <sdelbianco@netchoice.org <mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org> >, "bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> list" <bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> > Dear All: I have reviewed Bill's emails, his comments and those added by Stephane.  I am fine with Stephane's comments so long as we all feel this wouldn't be a political bombshell (however realistic and practical it may be). As for Bill's suggestion about "entities".  I have attempted to suggest language that I think assuage my concerns.  Bill? J. Scott     j. scott evans -  head of global brand, domains & copyright - Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com>       ---------------- From: "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com <mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> > To: "<stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> >" <stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> > Cc: J. Scott Evans <jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com> >; "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com <mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> >; Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org <mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org> >; "bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> list" <bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> > Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois) I have attached an updated version. I'm quite happy with Stephane's addition but would ask J. Scott to offer alternative language for "entities" and to look with Yahoo to get a better understanding of the complexity and difficulty of operating a large-scale directory infrastructure, especially one that is by its nature sensitive.   (see my comments within J Scott's comments)   Any move from a freely available public WHOIS system to one that is mediated and subject to access controls requires careful consideration. Implementing a secure, internet-scale, global directory for "accredited" security professionals will be no small task.       On Aug 5, 2013, at 11:50 AM, <stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> >  wrote: I have added to J Scott's latest redraft a bit at the end about the possibility of extending this work to the cc space.   The wording is not perfect IMO, but hopefully the intent is clear.   Thanks,       Stéphane Van Gelder Chairman and Managing Director/Fondateur STEPHANE VAN GELDER CONSULTING T (FR): +33 (0)6 20 40 55 89 T (UK): +44 (0)7583 457053 Skype: SVANGELDER www.StephaneVanGelder.com <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.stephanevangelder.com/&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=396c77079583c49e46abef00845888658b07005e75d215b90ece8f0b321629b3> ---------------- Follow us on Twitter: @stephvg and "like" us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DomainConsultant <http://www.facebook.com/DomainConsultant> LinkedIn:  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=f389607d1af9c0c953bd359de09a2eb338a08f5f782c579c8334b497daaecf79> fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/ <http://fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/> Le 5 août 2013 à 18:58, "J. Scott Evans" <jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com> > a écrit : Bill and team: I have re-reviewed the draft with Bill's suggested revisions.  I have attached a redline showing my thoughts on top of Bill's suggested edits. J. Scott     j. scott evans -  head of global brand, domains & copyright - Yahoo! Inc. - 408.349.1385 - jscottevans@yahoo.com <mailto:jscottevans@yahoo.com>       ---------------- From: "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com <mailto:bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> > To: "stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> " <stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> > Cc: Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org <mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org> >; "bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> list" <bc-gnso@icann.org <mailto:bc-gnso@icann.org> > Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [bc-gnso] FOR REVIEW BY 11-AUG: BC comments on Expert Working Group for Directory Services ( new Whois) +1   Attached is a marked up version of the document. I have attempted to replace web and website with Internet and service (generally) and hope that my changes read properly. I believe it important to make the distinction between the web and Internet since the ARDS is used for much more than the web.   I also included some comments and additions that I believe are necessary to include. In particular, I disagree with the assertion that there is no foundation for the belief that the scale of the ARDS make it vulnerable. Internet entities are vulnerable regardless of size but as they grow, they become increasingly attractive targets. ARDS will be attractive - or the Registrar community has been disingenuous about the scale of SPAM, customer loss, etc. that results from harvesting information via WHOIS.   I have also added text related to Gated Access and concerns related to data aggregation and operation of such a critical resource necessarily dependent on PII of security professionals. These individuals face very real risks given the work they do, those they "oppose", and the penalties imposed for crimes they uncover.   I hope we will consider the changes I have proposed.       On Aug 3, 2013, at 3:51 PM, stephvg@gmail.com <mailto:stephvg@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you Steve, Laura, Susan, J Scott and Elisa for a well drafted document that I believe is perfectly inline with business users interests as defined by our charter.   If I might make a suggestion, even though it's out of scope of the EWG's work, I would love to see something in our opening comments about the fact that if the RDS model is adopted (or another unified model for managing gTLD registration data), it would be extremely beneficial for Internet users worldwide if ccTLD registries were also willing to work towards the adoption of the same, single-format, model.   I think it's useful for commentors to the EWG's draft report to make this point, even though ccTLD managers abide by their own national laws and ways of doing things, because we all have a lot to gain from a more effective and more uniform registration data database.   Apart from that suggestion, I have no other comments. The draft seems spot on to me and is supported by SVG Consulting Ltd.   Thanks, Stéphane Van Gelder Chairman and Managing Director/Fondateur STEPHANE VAN GELDER CONSULTING T (FR): +33 (0)6 20 40 55 89 T (UK): +44 (0)7583 457053 Skype: SVANGELDER www.StephaneVanGelder.com <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.stephanevangelder.com/&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=396c77079583c49e46abef00845888658b07005e75d215b90ece8f0b321629b3> ---------------- Follow us on Twitter: @stephvg and "like" us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/DomainConsultant <http://www.facebook.com/DomainConsultant> LinkedIn:  <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=f389607d1af9c0c953bd359de09a2eb338a08f5f782c579c8334b497daaecf79> fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/ <http://fr.linkedin.com/in/domainconsultant/> Le 3 août 2013 à 17:53, Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org <mailto:sdelbianco@netchoice.org> > a écrit : It's time for the BC to comment on the draft model for Next Generation gTLD Directory Services.  The Expert Working Group (EWG) published its draft report here <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://www.icann.org/en/groups/other/gtld-directory-services/initial-report-24jun13-en.pdf&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=3ee5d59a43ea0734285f08b830a85f0098008efd56d42a979e9c2ebd5f42949b> .  Public comment page is here <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.icann.org/en/groups/other/gtld-directory-services/share-24jun13-en.htm&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=52b62dd77d2bdf7019087cd723969ec9858c98b1e503d06e3aa13aed7c5ff404>  and the EWG Wiki page is here <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://community.icann.org/display/WG/Explore%2Bthe%2BDraft%2BNext%2BGeneration%2BgTLD%2BDirectory%2BServices%2BModel&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=RfTjtTQBKN%2BQcoX4JkHSqqoeuEc%2FGWno5xqQTlAKzPo%3D%0A&m=RaYn95eM%2B3xlzmZ4%2FBnEsjNbeHw02IY86kkEIblkK58%3D%0A&s=b8461cf7b2005648feb89c930fe68ae0efe7ec587ac269aeb035a526115cb64f> . Laura Covington prepared the attached draft of BC comments, with help from Susan Kawaguchi, J Scott Evans, and Elisa Cooper.     The comment period closes 12-Aug-2013, so please Reply All before 11-Aug with edits or questions.     -- Steve DelBianco Vice chair for policy coordination Business Constituency     <BC Comments - EWG Draft Model [v1].doc> <BC Comments - EWG Draft Model [v1] -JSE2.doc> <BC Comments - EWG Draft Model [v1] -JSE2-SVG.doc>