Dear Mike, It would be helpful to all BC members if you would (1) declare if you have a vested interest in this issue or not; and (2) be more specific about which room?; which discussion?; and who others? share your recall. Clarity and information serves us all. Kind regards, RA Ronald N. Andruff RNA <http://www.rnapartners.com> Partners, Inc. _____ From: mike@rodenbaugh.com [mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 3:43 PM To: randruff@rnapartners.com; 'Andy Abrams'; sdelbianco@netchoice.org Cc: bc-gnso@icann.org Subject: RE: [bc-gnso] Closed Generic TLDs: a straw poll of BC member views These discussions happened long before the vi wg debacle. I was in the room and others share my recall. This is why no categories were recommended other than Community. Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087 <tel:+14157388087> http://rodenbaugh.com -----Original message----- From: Ron Andruff <randruff@rnapartners.com> To: 'Andy Abrams' <abrams@google.com>, 'Steve DelBianco' <sdelbianco@netchoice.org> Cc: 'bc - GNSO list' <bc-gnso@icann.org> Sent: Wed, Feb 20, 2013 20:37:35 GMT+00:00 Subject: RE: [bc-gnso] Closed Generic TLDs: a straw poll of BC member views Dear Andy, I would like to give more thought to both Steve's straw poll and your comments before opining further, but I think it is important to make clear - having been myself in the room you speak of - that your characterization ("We have heard from individuals that were in the room that this issue was in fact directly discussed, and an explicit determination was made to allow closed registries for non-brand terms.") is incorrect. The VI WG did not discuss this issue in the detail you are alluding to (transcripts will attest to this) and we did not make an explicit determination to allow closed registries for non-brand terms. I have little doubt that Co-Chairs, Mikey O'Connor (former BC member) and Roberto Gaetano (former Board member) will attest to the fact that in the total number of hours of calls, very little time was spent on this topic relative to all of the others and there was rough consensus at best that brands should be allowed to apply and need not use accredited registrars. Again, the transcripts of the discussions on this topic will bear this out. Kind regards, RA Ronald N. Andruff RNA <http://www.rnapartners.com> Partners, Inc. _____ From: owner-bc-gnso@icann.org [mailto:owner-bc-gnso@icann.org] On Behalf Of Andy Abrams Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:39 PM To: Steve DelBianco Cc: bc - GNSO list Subject: Re: [bc-gnso] Closed Generic TLDs: a straw poll of BC member views Dear Steve, Thank you very much for your work on this issue. I think we had a productive discussion at last week's BC meeting, and we look forward to further dialogue leading up to Beijing. As we discussed last week, from Google's perspective, we respectfully believe it is inappropriate to address this issue with the broad brush stroke of "closed generics" given the multitude of different business models, industries and applicants involved as well as the numerous ways to interpret this phrase. Some of these business models represent the very type of innovation that was envisioned for the new gTLD program and would not be possible under the same "pure open" framework that has existed with every TLD to date. This does not mean that we believe all potentially affected applications are equally meritorious or should be given a free pass - far from it, we strongly believe in the existing ICANN process of public objections and GAC Advice, and are taking concerns regarding our own particular applications into very careful consideration. However, we believe that the broader issue ultimately comes down to fairness. We have heard from individuals that were in the room that this issue was in fact directly discussed, and an explicit determination was made to allow closed registries for non-brand terms. Based on our calls with other companies and BC members, we also know that a large number of businesses have spent the last year preparing various single-registrant or restricted business models in reliance on the undisputed fact that the Guidebook currently allows for such practices. Given this context, I respectfully have some concerns with the formulation of the straw poll. To us, the issue of the ROCC exemption versus the 1(b) "reasonably necessary" distinction are a mere subset of the threshold issue of (1) Change the Guidebook or (2) Don't Change the Guidebook. ICANN should eventually address the former question as it works through the details of registry operation, but from the perspective of business users, I suspect that the details of whether a single registrant must allow multiple registrars to sell domains to itself are less relevant than the larger policy issue. For our part, we are still agnostic on this and will continue to explore it further - we do believe that there is a reasonable argument in favor of either Outcome #1 or #2 of the straw poll (but nothing in the Guidebook to support #3, as through the ROCC lens there is no reasonable way to distinguish different "types" of closed registries in the Guidebook). We also respectfully object to the characterization of Outcome #1 as "anything goes," (though I do like that as the new title of the public forum!) For these reasons, perhaps it makes sense to restructure the poll in a manner which reflects the binary discussions we have had in the BC thus far? To the extent people do have strong feelings about Outcome 1 v. 2, perhaps that can be a subcategory of the status quo position? I appreciate your consideration. Best, Andy On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 8:50 PM, Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org> wrote: BC Members: ICANN just opened a public comment period (link <http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-comment/closed-generic-05feb13-en.htm> ) asking whether to classify certain TLD applications as "closed generic", and to deter me "circumstances under which a particular TLD operator should be permitted to adopt open or closed registration policies." As written, this comment solicitation steers away from the question of whether a registry can own all the domain names in a TLD. Instead, ICANN is asking whether we need new policies regarding who may register a domain, as is apparent from this "background" statement under the public comment: "it should be clarified that the Code of Conduct refers to registry-registrar interactions, rather than eligibility for registering names in the TLD. Rather than the Code of Conduct, the true issue of concern being expressed appears to be that in certain applications, the proposed registration policies are deemed inappropriate by some parties." That points us to the Registry Code of Conduct (attached), which was created partly in response to BC concerns about allowing vertical integration of registries and registrars. Here's the section most relevant to this discussion: 1. In connection with the operation of the registry for the TLD, Registry Operator will not, and will not allow any parent, subsidiary, Affiliate, subcontractor or other related entity, to the extent such party is engaged in the provision of Registry Services with respect to the TLD to: b. register domain names in its own right, except for names registered through an ICANN accredited registrar that are reasonably necessary for the management, operations and purpose of the TLD Reasonable people interpret 1b differently. Does 1b prohibit a registry from owning names in its own TLD, except for limited circumstances? Or does 1b allow a registry to own any and all names that suit the purpose of their TLD? ICANN legal may further clarify its interpretation of 1b, but I believe they see 1b as permitting a "closed generic" TLD to own all its own names. Whatever the thoughts of ICANN legal, we have an opportunity to comment on what should be the interpretation and implications for closed generic TLDs. As we discussed last Tuesday, the BC may not arrive at a consensus or majority view, in which case we could submit just background information. My goal with this email is to to conduct a "straw" poll of BC members to assess convergence around a desired policy outcome that would form the basis of a BC Comment on closed generics. First, I compiled a 3-page history on the BC's support for closed TLDs, starting in 2007 with sponsored TLDs and then for dot-brand TLDs starting in 2009. (See attached) BC members with long memories may want to improve on that history, but its only here for background so let's not get too wrapped-up in that. So, here are the 3 potential outcomes we proposed on the BC call last week. Please reply with your views and preferences by 21-Feb-2013 and we'll see whether there's enough support to do a BC position on this before ICANN's deadline of 7-March. Outcome #1: Anything Goes. The registry Code of Conduct clearly allows a TLD operator to have control over who registers domains in their TLD, and the operator can own all the domains if they wish. Under this outcome, a registry could own all the domains in their TLD without having to ask ICANN for an exemption from the Code of Conduct. Outcome #2: Exemption Required. The registry Code of Conduct prohibits a TLD operator from registering names in its own TLD, except for names reasonably necessary for operating the TLD. Under this outcome, the 1b "except for" does not swallow the rule and thereby allow control of all domains in the TLD. A registry that wants to own all the domains in its TLD can still do so, however, if it obtains an exemption from the Code of Conduct, as provided in Para 6 of the Code: 6. Registry Operator may request an exemption to this Code of Conduct, and such exemption may be granted by ICANN in ICANN's reasonable discretion, if Registry Operator demonstrates to ICANN's reasonable satisfaction that (i) all domain name registrations in the TLD are registered to, and maintained by, Registry Operator for its own exclusive use, (ii) Registry Operator does not sell, distribute or transfer control or use of any registrations in the TLD to any third party that is not an Affiliate of Registry Operator, and (iii) application of this Code of Conduct to the TLD is not necessary to protect the public interest. All that remains is for ICANN to develop & publish the process and criteria they will use to determine whether giving an applicant this exemption is "in the public interest" as required by para 6. Presumably, the public interest would include considerations of consumer protect, freedom of expression, competition, innovation, and relevant pledges made by ICANN in the 2009 Affirmation of Commitments. Outcome #3. Only dot-brands may get an exemption. Only dot-Brands should get the Code of Conduct Exemption. That would allow .Hilton, .Apple, .Google to pursue the exemption, and they should have no trouble getting it. But Goodyear would not be eligible for an exemption that allow it to own all names in .tires TLD, for example. If this straw poll reveals no significant support for any of the above, the BC would not draft a position on this public comment period. Instead, the BC might submit just background information and analysis, and perhaps a Reply comment later on. -- Steve DelBianco Executive Director NetChoice http://www.NetChoice.org and http://blog.netchoice.org +1.202.420.7482 <tel:%2B1.202.420.7482> -- Andy Abrams | Trademark Counsel Google | 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043 <https://www.google.com/voice#phones> (650) 669-8752