Great data points @Stephen. Agree with your thinking._______________________________________________-The extremely low representation of ccNSO (or GNSO & ALAC overrepresentation depending on perspective) in NomCom is IMHO simply unjustifiable. I cannot understand how it has held up for so long. I would strongly support action on this balancing front.Javier Rúa-JovetOn Jun 21, 2023, at 1:42 AM, Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC <sdeerhake@nic.as> wrote:Greetings all.
Upon further reflection (and I like the healthy discourse on this topic on the list btw)...
First, let's look at the beast we call the NomCom (ICANN Bylaws, Article 8) that we are dealing with:
Its composition is as follows (voting members):
1. ALAC 5
2. GNSO Business Constituency 2
1 representing small business users
1 representing large business users
3. GNSO Registry Constituency 1
4. GNSO Registrars Constituency 1
5. GNSO Intellectual Property Constituency 1
6. GNSO Non-cemeterial Users Constituency 1
7. ccNSO 1
8. Address Supporting Organization (ASO) 1
9. Board appointee representing academic interests 1
10. IETF 1
11. ICANN Technical Liaison Group 1
Total voting members 16
Plus the following non-voting members:
1. Non-voting Chair 1
2. Non-voting Associate Chair 1
3 .Non-voting Immediately previous Chair 1
4. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the RSSAC 1
5. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the SSAC 1
6. Non-voting Liaison appointed by the GAC 1
Total non-voting members 6
Grand total: 22
I do not recall what we were all smoking back in the day when we thought this was a brilliant idea, but in retrospect, we collectively created a monster...
I assume that the heavy lift is provided by the voting members (Pablo, since you served penitence on the NomCom, please correct me if I misstate anything here going forward...), so breaking it all down by SO/AC votes, we have:
GNSO 6
ALAC 5
ccNSO 1
ASO 1
Board appointee 1
IETF 1
ICANN 1
I believe it was Nick who brought up in this thread the point about Community burnout, and implicitly how it would be difficult to recruit Community members to fill the potential four new slot as initially proposed.
I cannot agree with Nick more. We are all (at each individual level) somewhat burned out, as we are the 20% within the 80-20% maxim regarding community participation overall.
Having thought about this further, I think we need to focus on keeping the number of active voting members as it is, at 16.
Between the GNSO, ALAC, and the ccNSO, we have 12 votes.
Historically, the ASO “just doesn’t give a damn” about anything ICANN related. I experienced this whilst holding the inaugural ccNSO Empowered Community Administration (ECA) seat on behalf of the ccNSO for several years after the transition.
I also suspect that the IETF has a similar attitude as that of the ASO, but I am less certain about this.
Note that ICANN has two votes already, so I think that is both stable and non-negotiable.
We thus have 12 votes amongst the ALAC, the GNSO, and the ccNSO. The simplest solution of course is to simply allocate them on an equal basis, 4 each, but that may well prove tricky, as it will require a one vote reduction from ALAC, and a two vote reduction from the GNSO.
Could we peel away the ASO and IETF seats? I have no idea; If they do not actually participate, then perhaps. I defer to Pablo for some insight on their past participation. If we could, I’d be happy with going from one seat to three at the selection table.
Otherwise, I really do not see a way forward other than years of grid-lock on this issue at the Community level.
It may well end up being something that the Board, after considerable (and likely contentious) Community input, proposes a solution for this mess, which would be subject to an Empowered Community rejection action (the text of Article 8 is not considered a “Fundamental” Bylaw, as proscribed in Article 25.2 of the ICANN Bylaws), which will most likely fail, which will let the Board’s proposal prevail.
This is my (somewhat, and perhaps deranged) thinking on this matter at this point..
Best Regards,
Stephen
From: Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Javier Rua via Ccnso-council
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2023 6:31 PM
To: Olga Cavalli <olgacavalli@gmail.com>
Cc: ccnso-council@icann.org
Subject: Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
+1
Hard for me to understand such a huge disbalance
Javier Rúa-Jovet
On Jun 20, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Olga Cavalli via Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
Hi,
I agree with Demi, and Pablo. This is an old and recurrent issue that is never solved, each SO and AC Should have the same amount of seats.
Equal representation is relevant as the main role of nomcom is selecting HALF of the ICANN Board members, which is a fact that impacts all SO and AC.
A number of 5 reps, one per region could be ok, but have in mind that today:
7 seats there are for GNSO
5 seats there are for ALAC, one per region
rest SO and AC have one
GAC does not appoint a representative in Nomcom for more than a decade....
see details here:
Regards
Olga
El mar, 20 jun 2023 a las 9:14, Demi Getschko via Ccnso-council (<ccnso-council@icann.org>) escribió:
Pablo + 1 here!
This is an old issue, never resolved. We are severely underrepresented
in NomCom...
best!
demi
On 19/06/2023 21:40, Pablo Rodriguez via Ccnso-council wrote:
> Dear All:
> I agree with Stephen's remark, no SO or AC will give up seats at the
> table to increase ccNSO's participation.
> Consequently, it seems to me the logical path is to increase our
> number to 5 members (1 per region).
> I would agree to less than five if those that currently have five
> members cut down their membership to an equal number as the ccNSO.
> Regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:09 PM Stephen Deerhake @ ASNIC via
> Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Further Jordan and Nick’s remarks, I personally do not see how we
> can achieve a rebalancing effort in any of our lifetimes without
> an approach that does not involve expansion of the NomCom membership.
>
> I just do not see the other SO/AC’s giving up some seats at the
> table to the ccNSO. So I think, to use an American expression
> regarding our Supreme court, we need to “ack the NomCom.”
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Stephen
>
> *From: *Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> on behalf
> of Alejandra Reynoso Barral via Ccnso-council
> <ccnso-council@icann.org>
> *Reply-To: *Alejandra Reynoso Barral <alejandra.reynoso@gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, June 19, 2023 at 08:29
> *To: *Nick Wenban-Smith <Nick.Wenban-Smith@nominet.uk>
> *Cc: *"ccnso-Council@icann.org" <ccnso-council@icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
>
> Dear All
>
> We had a great ICANN meeting and I hope everyone arrived safely
> back home.
>
> Nick, so far we don't have any input on what other SOs/ACs are
> going to respond. During one of the Chairs monthly calls it was
> brought to the table and it seemed that we didn't need
> coordination. If we feel it would be best to share views before
> the formal response I can always reach out to them and seek input.
>
> Here is the ICANN Correspondence:
> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/correspondence
>
> There are very few responses already regarding the NomCom
> rebalancing topic.
>
> On the other hand, some of you approached me to be allowed to
> contribute to the response and here I am sharing the Google Doc:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OeX5vRNKkgOME5IWbTeAPxffdMhednPE/edit
>
> Please add your comments and suggestions by the 22 June.
> Afterwards the Ad Hoc team will clean it up and circulate a final
> version for approval on the 26 June.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Alejandra
>
>
> *******************************************
> Work like you don't need the money.
> Love like you've never been hurt.
> Dance like nobody's watching.
> Sing like nobody's listening.
> And live like it's Heaven on Earth.
> *******************************************
>
> On Thu, Jun 15, 2023 at 9:21 PM Nick Wenban-Smith via
> Ccnso-council <ccnso-council@icann.org> wrote:
>
> It’s hard to see another way to do it.
>
> Does anyone have any insights as to how other participants
> (such as the GNSO and ALAC) are looking at this? Might be a
> good idea to coordinate responses, just a thought.
>
> *From:* Ccnso-council <ccnso-council-bounces@icann.org> *On
> Behalf Of *Jordan Carter via Ccnso-council
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2023 7:37 PM
> *To:* ccnso-Council@icann.org
> *Subject:* [ccnso-council] on the NomCom rebalancing
>
> Hi all
>
> This email is about the response to Tripti’s letter on the
> rebalancing of the NomCom.
>
> The draft was on our list recently and is downloadable here:
> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20draft%20Submission%20Rebalancing%20NomCom.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1686841335000&api=v2
> <https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/228788163/Item%2012%20-%20draft%20Submission%20Rebalancing%20NomCom.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1686841335000&api=v2>
>
> In specific reply to Question 4 almost at the end of the doc,
> the suggestion is that there be a Cross Community Working
> Group to do the work of developing a change to the NomCom’s
> balance, which will lead to bylaws changes.
>
> I can’t think of a different way to do it.
>
> * Clearly the Board coming up with a proposal and seeking
> public comment isn’t the right way.
> * The NomCom can’t propose changes to itself.
> * The SO/AC Chairs leadership forum does not have the
> mandate to propose specifics in such a potentially
> contentious area.
> * Getting some external consultant to do a review would just
> be an interesting input – we clearly can’t just say “ok”
> to something someone outside the community wrote for us.
>
> Perhaps we could expand the point to say something like the
> following – shared as a rough draft to see what people think…
>
> *4. How do you suggest that the NomCom’s composition be
> rebalanced?*
>
> It is our view that, the rebalancing should be achieved
> through a cross-community group process, chartered by the
> community and Board which ultimately would result in
> suggestions for Bylaw changes.
>
> We think work on this question, in whatever form is finally
> agreed, should start expeditiously since it will take some
> time to start and some time to do the work. We are prepared to
> participate in a chartering group in the near future. The goal
> should be that there is a process of some type proposed for
> discussion at ICANN78 in October.
>
> _______
>
> *Jordan Carter*
>
> Internet Governance and Policy Director
>
> jordan.carter@auda.org.au <mailto:jordan.carter@auda.org.au>
>
> +61 417 243 647
>
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