RE: [ccnso-council] 46-2015: CCWG-Accountability - Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations
Byron, I note that Gabi has forwarded to the Council a request from the Triage Committee that members respond to Triage suggestion 46-2015 by the end of the day tomorrow (02.12.15 23:59 UTC) with their opinions/comments on the 12 recommendations made as part of the 30 November 2015 "CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations". Council members are being asked to weigh in on 12 recommendations described in 140 pages of primary documents (the "Annexes"), directly supported by an additional 99 pages of material, as well as 61 pages of Appendices. This is 300 pages of material in all. I frankly do not see how it is realistic to expect Council members to consider this amount of material in the 34 hours that have been allotted us, let alone make any meaningful judgements about its content or for that matter, the specific recommendations. Further, it is my understanding from ICANN Staff that the lack of proactive action on the part of a Council member with respect to Triage suggestion 46-2015 will be considered as that member having implicitedly given their consent to the recommendations of the CCWG. I have to take exception to this "silence equals approval" notion, as what is being asked of us, given the timeframe available to us, is utterly unrealistic, even for those members who have been attempting to follow the work of the CCWG. The result of this flawed process will be a false impression of support for the recommendations of the CCWG. I submit this approach will not serve the interests of either the ccNSO Community, nor the larger ccTLD Community. Best Regards, Stephen Deerhake AS Domain Registry (.as) GDNS LLC
Hi, My understanding of the Triage Committee request is that Councillors have to consider the proposed course of action - ie to send the proposals to the community and for the ccNSO Chair to encourage responses. I do not think this means that the Council has to consider the material itself by the deadline (and if it does, then I agree with you that this is an unrealistic timeline). My view is that the course of action is fine, but that it should also include ‘add to next ccNSO Council agenda for further consideration on next steps’ On your other point about ‘silence equals approval’ I also take exception to this notion in this case. There have been times where silence has indeed indicated approval, but I feel that this will not be one of them. Kind regards, Lesley On 1 Dec 2015, at 17:44, Stephen Deerhake <sdeerhake@nic.as<mailto:sdeerhake@nic.as>> wrote: Byron, I note that Gabi has forwarded to the Council a request from the Triage Committee that members respond to Triage suggestion 46-2015 by the end of the day tomorrow (02.12.15 23:59 UTC) with their opinions/comments on the 12 recommendations made as part of the 30 November 2015 "CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations". Council members are being asked to weigh in on 12 recommendations described in 140 pages of primary documents (the "Annexes"), directly supported by an additional 99 pages of material, as well as 61 pages of Appendices. This is 300 pages of material in all. I frankly do not see how it is realistic to expect Council members to consider this amount of material in the 34 hours that have been allotted us, let alone make any meaningful judgements about its content or for that matter, the specific recommendations. Further, it is my understanding from ICANN Staff that the lack of proactive action on the part of a Council member with respect to Triage suggestion 46-2015 will be considered as that member having implicitedly given their consent to the recommendations of the CCWG. I have to take exception to this "silence equals approval" notion, as what is being asked of us, given the timeframe available to us, is utterly unrealistic, even for those members who have been attempting to follow the work of the CCWG. The result of this flawed process will be a false impression of support for the recommendations of the CCWG. I submit this approach will not serve the interests of either the ccNSO Community, nor the larger ccTLD Community. Best Regards, Stephen Deerhake AS Domain Registry (.as) GDNS LLC
Dear Stephen, I understand your frustration therefore let me explain the role of the Triage Committee (TC). The ccNSO receives many requests (from ICANN, from other SOs/Acs, from WGs, etc.) asking for feedback. Some are relevant, some are not, but the ccNSO Council is supposed to deal with all of them. By ‘deal’ I mean 'to review and decide what to do'. To make things easier and to distribute the workload, at some point the ccNSO Council decided to create a Triage Committee. The whole idea of the TC is to review the requests and propose what to do with them. The TC is comprised of three Councillors who agree on the recommendations to the ccNSO Council (i.e., to the remaining 15 Councillors). The recommendations of the TC are what they are, i.e., recommendations of somebody who already looked into the matter. The Councillors may agree/disagree/propose other actions/anything. If no objections are received from the Councillors, the Secretariat implement the recommended actions. I think this is a reasonable approach – if every time we have to act we would have to wait for a ‘yes' or 'no' from each Councillor it would take forever (yes, a great achievement for democracy but hardly an efficient way to run the business). To make it clearer let’s use the current example. In this case the ccNSO received information about the proposal and request for input. The TC recommends 1) to inform the community (done); 2) that the Chair of the ccNSO encourages the ccTLDs to take part in the process. These two recommendations are submitted to the ccNSO Council. In no way this should be viewed as a request for Councillors to give an input on the proposal! It’s a request to look at the two particular recommendations of the TC and either accept them or dismiss them, or propose other actions (what has already been done!). Hope this clarifies! :-) Kindest regards, ]{atrina -- Katrina Sataki, CEO NIC.LV – The Registry of ccTLD .lv Institute of Mathematics and Computer Science, University of Latvia Raina bulvaris 29, Riga LV-1459 Tel: +371 67085858 | Fax: +371 67225072 | Mobile: +371 29249666 E-mail: katrina@nic.lv | Skype: kat..s | Web: www.nic.lv <http://www.nic.lv/> -- € From: <owner-ccnso-council@icann.org> on behalf of Stephen Deerhake <sdeerhake@nic.as> Organization: AS Domain Registry Reply-To: <sdeerhake@nic.as> Date: Tuesday 1 December 2015 19:44 To: 'Byron Holland' <byron.holland@cira.ca> Cc: <ccnso-council@icann.org> Subject: RE: [ccnso-council] 46-2015: CCWG-Accountability - Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations Byron, I note that Gabi has forwarded to the Council a request from the Triage Committee that members respond to Triage suggestion 46-2015 by the end of the day tomorrow (02.12.15 23:59 UTC) with their opinions/comments on the 12 recommendations made as part of the 30 November 2015 "CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations". Council members are being asked to weigh in on 12 recommendations described in 140 pages of primary documents (the "Annexes"), directly supported by an additional 99 pages of material, as well as 61 pages of Appendices. This is 300 pages of material in all. I frankly do not see how it is realistic to expect Council members to consider this amount of material in the 34 hours that have been allotted us, let alone make any meaningful judgements about its content or for that matter, the specific recommendations. Further, it is my understanding from ICANN Staff that the lack of proactive action on the part of a Council member with respect to Triage suggestion 46-2015 will be considered as that member having implicitedly given their consent to the recommendations of the CCWG. I have to take exception to this "silence equals approval" notion, as what is being asked of us, given the timeframe available to us, is utterly unrealistic, even for those members who have been attempting to follow the work of the CCWG. The result of this flawed process will be a false impression of support for the recommendations of the CCWG. I submit this approach will not serve the interests of either the ccNSO Community, nor the larger ccTLD Community. Best Regards, Stephen Deerhake AS Domain Registry (.as) GDNS LLC
Councillors, I believe there was a miss-communication/ miss-understanding of what the Triage Committee was recommending, which Katrina has clarified (thank you Katrina). All we are being asked to do is support (or not) he recommendation made by the Triage committee, which is the following: Recommended action, if any: Send to community for information; ccNSO Chair to actively encourage community input. Now that we are clear on the TC recommendation I suggest that it is reasonable and we should accept it. Does anybody on the Council object to this recommendation? Best regards, Byron From: Stephen Deerhake [mailto:sdeerhake@nic.as] Sent: December-01-15 12:44 PM To: Byron Holland Cc: ccnso-council@icann.org Subject: RE: [ccnso-council] 46-2015: CCWG-Accountability - Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations Byron, I note that Gabi has forwarded to the Council a request from the Triage Committee that members respond to Triage suggestion 46-2015 by the end of the day tomorrow (02.12.15 23:59 UTC) with their opinions/comments on the 12 recommendations made as part of the 30 November 2015 "CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations". Council members are being asked to weigh in on 12 recommendations described in 140 pages of primary documents (the "Annexes"), directly supported by an additional 99 pages of material, as well as 61 pages of Appendices. This is 300 pages of material in all. I frankly do not see how it is realistic to expect Council members to consider this amount of material in the 34 hours that have been allotted us, let alone make any meaningful judgements about its content or for that matter, the specific recommendations. Further, it is my understanding from ICANN Staff that the lack of proactive action on the part of a Council member with respect to Triage suggestion 46-2015 will be considered as that member having implicitedly given their consent to the recommendations of the CCWG. I have to take exception to this "silence equals approval" notion, as what is being asked of us, given the timeframe available to us, is utterly unrealistic, even for those members who have been attempting to follow the work of the CCWG. The result of this flawed process will be a false impression of support for the recommendations of the CCWG. I submit this approach will not serve the interests of either the ccNSO Community, nor the larger ccTLD Community. Best Regards, Stephen Deerhake AS Domain Registry (.as) GDNS LLC
On 12/01/2015 10:11 PM, Byron Holland wrote:
reasonable and we should accept it. Does anybody on the Council object to this recommendation?
Technically yes. This is too large an issue to be dealt with by triaging. I 100% agree that we should include all the things in the TC suggestion, but to that can not dispose of the matter. It would be entirely insufficient. I agree with Lesley's position here.
Hi Byron, Sorry to push, but my question was left unanswered. "I understood that the stakeholders are encouraged to give feedback/support via "their" chartering organisations of the ccWG. Shouldn't this be reflected in the recommendation? If so, how will the ccNSO handle and compile this input?" If the ccNSO is not planning to be the main point for feedback for ccTLDs it might be good to inform the co-chairs of the ccWG. As CENTR we are preparing a comment, but given our own process, the earliest we can deliver is Dec. 20th. Regards, Peter From: owner-ccnso-council@icann.org [mailto:owner-ccnso-council@icann.org] On Behalf Of Byron Holland Sent: 01 December 2015 23:11 To: ccnso-council@icann.org Subject: RE: [ccnso-council] 46-2015: CCWG-Accountability - Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations Councillors, I believe there was a miss-communication/ miss-understanding of what the Triage Committee was recommending, which Katrina has clarified (thank you Katrina). All we are being asked to do is support (or not) he recommendation made by the Triage committee, which is the following: Recommended action, if any: Send to community for information; ccNSO Chair to actively encourage community input. Now that we are clear on the TC recommendation I suggest that it is reasonable and we should accept it. Does anybody on the Council object to this recommendation? Best regards, Byron From: Stephen Deerhake [mailto:sdeerhake@nic.as] Sent: December-01-15 12:44 PM To: Byron Holland Cc: ccnso-council@icann.org<mailto:ccnso-council@icann.org> Subject: RE: [ccnso-council] 46-2015: CCWG-Accountability - Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations Byron, I note that Gabi has forwarded to the Council a request from the Triage Committee that members respond to Triage suggestion 46-2015 by the end of the day tomorrow (02.12.15 23:59 UTC) with their opinions/comments on the 12 recommendations made as part of the 30 November 2015 "CCWG-Accountability Draft Proposal on Work Stream 1 Recommendations". Council members are being asked to weigh in on 12 recommendations described in 140 pages of primary documents (the "Annexes"), directly supported by an additional 99 pages of material, as well as 61 pages of Appendices. This is 300 pages of material in all. I frankly do not see how it is realistic to expect Council members to consider this amount of material in the 34 hours that have been allotted us, let alone make any meaningful judgements about its content or for that matter, the specific recommendations. Further, it is my understanding from ICANN Staff that the lack of proactive action on the part of a Council member with respect to Triage suggestion 46-2015 will be considered as that member having implicitedly given their consent to the recommendations of the CCWG. I have to take exception to this "silence equals approval" notion, as what is being asked of us, given the timeframe available to us, is utterly unrealistic, even for those members who have been attempting to follow the work of the CCWG. The result of this flawed process will be a false impression of support for the recommendations of the CCWG. I submit this approach will not serve the interests of either the ccNSO Community, nor the larger ccTLD Community. Best Regards, Stephen Deerhake AS Domain Registry (.as) GDNS LLC
participants (6)
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Byron Holland -
Katrina Sataki -
Lesley Cowley -
Nigel Roberts -
Peter Van Roste -
Stephen Deerhake