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Thanks Michele. While I don’t agree that I got my history incorrect, and you didn’t point out any actual historic facts which you believe are incorrect, I do understand your position. The position is as it is always been, namely, when contracted parties ask Staff for a top down solution for an urgent problem, that is OK but when non-contracted parties do it, that is undermining the policy development process. I also understand that contracted parties do not believe that our need for access now is as urgent as your need was for a GDPR compliance solution leading to the Temp Spec. But that is a matter of opinion. I don’t see how additional emails about this on the council list will prove fruitful, since this is simply a matter of each groups point of view. However, we are all in agreement that the EPP must succeed, and everyone is committed, as far as I know, to work hard towards that end. As was already mentioned, the letter apparently had no effect on the PDP working groups continued efforts. See you soon my friend! Best, Paul Sent from my iPhone On Sep 26, 2018, at 3:53 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Paul Your history regarding the Contracted Parties and the Temp Spec is not accurate. The Contracted Parties asked ICANN repeatedly to deal with the obvious gaps between our contracts, ICANN policies and governing law. This predates any discussions of GDPR, though it was only with the impending risks of the GDPR and the associated fines that ICANN org started taking our concerns seriously. The late, rushed, and top-down nature of the Temp Spec was unappealing to everyone, including Contracted Parties. Registrars and registries are engaged in good faith with the policy development process and want it to succeed, but if the ePDP fails then there will be no binding rules around whois / RDS etc. The ePDP is specifically designed to address an access model during a later phase. Lobbying ICANN directly as the IPC / BC has been doing in my mind undermines the work of the ePDP. I hope that we can all concentrate on successfully completing the EPDP first, rather than requesting more top-down initiatives from ICANN. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.blacknight.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7CPMcGrady%40winston.com%7C5ccd25ca245b4a2648bb08d623f2106d%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636735919919878213&sdata=XU4kZMCKiGnaGB5HUIpj%2BxxxAQqjFqY4I8Yl2ziXbxQ%3D&reserved=0> http://blacknight.blog/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblacknight.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7CPMcGrady%40winston.com%7C5ccd25ca245b4a2648bb08d623f2106d%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636735919919878213&sdata=X8z7CsNZhbatZCk2zRfr1tesqu84MEEzn5i8s0FtPz0%3D&reserved=0> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichele.blog%2F&data=02%7C01%7CPMcGrady%40winston.com%7C5ccd25ca245b4a2648bb08d623f2106d%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636735919919888222&sdata=K6%2F%2Fay5WZEmS4mOSWk2a1LuFFQdESLqd1i1Os8FySJI%3D&reserved=0> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fceo.hosting%2F&data=02%7C01%7CPMcGrady%40winston.com%7C5ccd25ca245b4a2648bb08d623f2106d%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636735919919918243&sdata=zu0v%2B5qa%2F0e4%2BTbnye8FwzBtuB3RbVEJBRjCbxlxKhY%3D&reserved=0> ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of Paul McGrady <PMcGrady@winston.com<mailto:PMcGrady@winston.com>> Date: Friday 21 September 2018 at 09:12 To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com<mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, Darcy Southwell <darcy.southwell@endurance.com<mailto:darcy.southwell@endurance.com>> Cc: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP & Accreditation/Access Model Thanks Rafik. Thanks Darcy. Darcy, to respond to your request, I’m not sure that I can provide much more background on this than the letter itself, which is pretty self-explanatory. We all know the history: * GNSO Community working on various policy development efforts to address WHOIS, including protecting privacy and allowing disclosure for legitimate purposes. . * GDPR comes into effect with deadline for fines. * Certain Contracted Parties become concerned about fines and work with Staff to develop the Temp Spec. IPC and other folks who need disclosure for legitimate purposes practically beg Staff to include the details of a framework for such disclosures. * Staff produces a Temp Spec for the Board to implement which contains the requirement for disclosures but little detail. * Almost immediately, it is much more difficult to obtain needed disclosures for legitimate purposes, creating a safe haven for all sorts of Internet maladies. We understand that some do not believe in the existence of this problem, but like most real things, the existence of the problem isn’t dependent on a need for 100% of people to believe in them. * Like Contracted Parties who saw an immediate problem and went to Staff seeking a Temp Spec while GNSO Community policy work was ongoing, IPC and others are working with Staff to (hopefully) get a Temp Spec in place addressing the details for a uniform/unified disclosure process while the Community work continues. Hopefully, the EPDP produces Policy that finally, after decades of work, solves all of the above. To the extent that the policy development process is being undermined by the letter it seems to me that it has already been undermined by the request by certain Contracted Parties for the Temp Spec. That ship has sailed and, respectfully, certain of the Contracted Parties were at the helm. I know this may be unpopular email, but I think it is best not to dance around the issues or try to get cute in explaining why the letter was sent. I think as far as the EPDP is concerned, it seems like a non-issue, since as Rafik noted, the letter had no effect on the work of the EPDP. Apologies for the inevitable slowness in any future responses to this response. I am in London setting up my daughter’s flat and leaving her here for university, so I will be a bit distracted and out of the usual time zone until next week. Best, Paul From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> On Behalf Of Rafik Dammak Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:02 AM To: Darcy Southwell <darcy.southwell@endurance.com<mailto:darcy.southwell@endurance.com>> Cc: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP & Accreditation/Access Model Hi Darcy, while the letter was shared in the mailing list by EPDP team member this week, there was no discussion or reaction on that matter within the EPDP team. Best, Rafik Le jeu. 20 sept. 2018 à 03:07, Darcy Southwell <darcy.southwell@endurance.com<mailto:darcy.southwell@endurance.com>> a écrit : Rafik, as Council liaison to the EPDP, what can you share about the impact the EPDP Team sees here? Darcy From: Darcy Southwell <darcy.southwell@endurance.com<mailto:darcy.southwell@endurance.com>> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 8:11 AM To: council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: EPDP & Accreditation/Access Model The BC/IPC recently sent a letter to ICANN org (https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/bc-ipc-to-marby-07sep18-en.pdf<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icann.org%2Fen%2Fsystem%2Ffiles%2Fcorrespondence%2Fbc-ipc-to-marby-07sep18-en.pdf&data=02%7C01%7CPMcGrady%40winston.com%7C5ccd25ca245b4a2648bb08d623f2106d%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636735919919928255&sdata=ecq0ZPpuL2CA6gB4dIc%2BYMzWoGwX0%2FWW%2B%2BfK98zjf4Q%3D&reserved=0>) about the accreditation and access model. This letter seems problematic at this stage of the game. We discussed this issue ad nauseam during the EPDP Charter development and the Council has tasked the EPDP with addressing the Annex. To ask ICANN org to circumvent the EPDP undermines the policy development process and seems disingenuous to the Council’s approval of the Charter. In addition, the EDPB’s July 5 letter states responsibility for designing an access model lies with ICANN and the registries/registrars, not just ICANN as indicated in the BC/IPC letter. Will our BC and/or IPC councilors please shed some light on this? Thanks, Darcy _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcouncil&data=02%7C01%7CPMcGrady%40winston.com%7C5ccd25ca245b4a2648bb08d623f2106d%7C12a8aae45e2f4ad8adab9375a84aa3e5%7C0%7C0%7C636735919919928255&sdata=J%2BhGPKwT8uLHKFBivoXIlp2%2FHvcLS8hxiUnja7SNTV0%3D&reserved=0> ________________________________ The contents of this message may be privileged and confidential. 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