suggestions for the Toronto agenda
Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now. 1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that. 2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness. Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
Thomas, Thank you for these suggestions. 1. On the first topic, the registries (and new gTLD applicants) pursued this line of discussion way back in 2008/2009 when the new registry agreements were first being discussed. There were many reasons which ICANN had at the time for selecting California law and for only having a single governing law selected, not the least includes the notion of equitable treatment and forum shopping. ICANN has also stated that they cannot force any party to an agreement to violate the laws of the jurisdiction in which that entity is located and therefore, even if California law governs the contract, ICANN would be unable to enforce a provision of an agreement against an entity located in a jurisdiction in which that provision would violate the law. This is always the case with all contracts. Finally, nothing prohibits any registry from initiating bi-lateral negotiations with ICANN to change the governing law if indeed there are issues. But I do not believe these are policy issues for the GNSO to actively discuss, despite the fact that I believe these are real issues. The issue is incredibly complex and must be a decision made by those that have fiduciary obligations to the corporate organization (i.e., the Board of Directors) and the other party to those negotiations. I am not sure this is an issue we should discuss at this point as a council. 2. The issues you point out on WHOIS verification and data retention are I believe still under discussion as part of the RAA process and I do believe have policy implications just as I believe does the issue of proxy/private registration accreditation programs. The registries and registrars expressed as much in our response to the WHOIS RT Final Report and we believe these are ripe for PDPs. I would support a discussion on these items as part of the larger discussions on the WHOIS RT Final Report and the RAA negotiations. Jeffrey J. Neuman Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Business Affairs -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Rickert Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 5:09 AM To: GNSO Council List Subject: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now. 1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that. 2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness. Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
Thanks Thomas for raising this issue. I fully agree with the intention of Thomas points. As you will remember there was a President´s Strategy Committee under Paul Twomey which discussed, inter alia, under "internaitonalization" the option of a second ICANN HQ (under Swiss or Belgium Law). This project was called "ICANN International". Unfortunately, due to other priorities, the idea was never further discussed in detail. With all the cases we have seen in the last years that decisions by US courts affects parties outside the US it seems to me that we have to come back to such a discussion when we move forward into a broader gTLD space. With hundreds of new registries, based outside the US and more than 1000 registrars around the whole globe we will probably move into a complicated situation where we have very confusing and unacceptable constellations in handling concrete legal cases. This includes also the issue of privacy/whois. I have no clear idea at the moment how we can find a reasonable way to accomodate the various individual/national interests in a workable legal constellation, however it seems to me that we have to offer alternative options for new contracting parties in this field. Furthermore, to continue with the present practice feeds arguments by UN member states to look for alternatives. Some of them see such todays situation as in contrast to the spirit of para. 68 of the Tunis agenda which is not really true but also not totally wrong. It would be indeed a wise pro-active step of the GNSO council if we would re-start such a discussion. It will be primarily future members of the GNSO and their constituency which will have here problems and they will be thankful if they realize that by joining the GNSO they enter an open and sensitive community. Thanks wolfgang ________________________________ Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org im Auftrag von Thomas Rickert Gesendet: Fr 14.09.2012 11:09 An: GNSO Council List Betreff: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now. 1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that. 2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness. Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
I agree the issue merits a bit of GNSO discussion, even if any decisions will fall to the Board. Bill On Sep 16, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
Thanks Thomas for raising this issue.
I fully agree with the intention of Thomas points. As you will remember there was a President´s Strategy Committee under Paul Twomey which discussed, inter alia, under "internaitonalization" the option of a second ICANN HQ (under Swiss or Belgium Law). This project was called "ICANN International". Unfortunately, due to other priorities, the idea was never further discussed in detail.
With all the cases we have seen in the last years that decisions by US courts affects parties outside the US it seems to me that we have to come back to such a discussion when we move forward into a broader gTLD space. With hundreds of new registries, based outside the US and more than 1000 registrars around the whole globe we will probably move into a complicated situation where we have very confusing and unacceptable constellations in handling concrete legal cases. This includes also the issue of privacy/whois.
I have no clear idea at the moment how we can find a reasonable way to accomodate the various individual/national interests in a workable legal constellation, however it seems to me that we have to offer alternative options for new contracting parties in this field.
Furthermore, to continue with the present practice feeds arguments by UN member states to look for alternatives. Some of them see such todays situation as in contrast to the spirit of para. 68 of the Tunis agenda which is not really true but also not totally wrong.
It would be indeed a wise pro-active step of the GNSO council if we would re-start such a discussion. It will be primarily future members of the GNSO and their constituency which will have here problems and they will be thankful if they realize that by joining the GNSO they enter an open and sensitive community.
Thanks
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org im Auftrag von Thomas Rickert Gesendet: Fr 14.09.2012 11:09 An: GNSO Council List Betreff: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda
Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now.
1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that.
2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness.
Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
Before committing to put this on the agenda for Toronto, I would like to refer the issue back to my SG. I am not sure they would want this on the agenda given that it is a matter of negotiation between the registries and ICANN outside of the picket fence and therefore outside the scope of GNSO policy activities. I ask for some indulgence in the way of timing so that I can get some feedback and bring it back to the council. Jeffrey J. Neuman Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Business Affairs -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of William Drake Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:06 AM To: "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" Cc: Thomas Rickert; GNSO Council List Subject: Re: AW: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda I agree the issue merits a bit of GNSO discussion, even if any decisions will fall to the Board. Bill On Sep 16, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
Thanks Thomas for raising this issue.
I fully agree with the intention of Thomas points. As you will remember there was a President´s Strategy Committee under Paul Twomey which discussed, inter alia, under "internaitonalization" the option of a second ICANN HQ (under Swiss or Belgium Law). This project was called "ICANN International". Unfortunately, due to other priorities, the idea was never further discussed in detail.
With all the cases we have seen in the last years that decisions by US courts affects parties outside the US it seems to me that we have to come back to such a discussion when we move forward into a broader gTLD space. With hundreds of new registries, based outside the US and more than 1000 registrars around the whole globe we will probably move into a complicated situation where we have very confusing and unacceptable constellations in handling concrete legal cases. This includes also the issue of privacy/whois.
I have no clear idea at the moment how we can find a reasonable way to accomodate the various individual/national interests in a workable legal constellation, however it seems to me that we have to offer alternative options for new contracting parties in this field.
Furthermore, to continue with the present practice feeds arguments by UN member states to look for alternatives. Some of them see such todays situation as in contrast to the spirit of para. 68 of the Tunis agenda which is not really true but also not totally wrong.
It would be indeed a wise pro-active step of the GNSO council if we would re-start such a discussion. It will be primarily future members of the GNSO and their constituency which will have here problems and they will be thankful if they realize that by joining the GNSO they enter an open and sensitive community.
Thanks
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org im Auftrag von Thomas Rickert Gesendet: Fr 14.09.2012 11:09 An: GNSO Council List Betreff: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda
Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now.
1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that.
2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness.
Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
Personally I suggest the Council should investigate the locality of contract issue before putting it on the table: a. It involves ASO and ccNSO which some of the members in those two orgs have contracts / MoUs with ICANN. What are their positions on this? b. Maybe I am wrong on this ... but If worldwide registrars have issues with ICANN on locality of contract, they should have already acted on it, but they did not. c. So IMHO, this discussion will lead to revision of contract revision and create even more complex legal structure. This perhaps benefit lawyers more than the applicants. Thomas -- I still appreciate your consideration on this issue. Would you be able to share any views from others in CPH / ASO / ccNSO ? Best regards, Ching On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM, William Drake <william.drake@uzh.ch> wrote:
I agree the issue merits a bit of GNSO discussion, even if any decisions will fall to the Board.
Bill
On Sep 16, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
Thanks Thomas for raising this issue.
I fully agree with the intention of Thomas points. As you will remember
there was a President´s Strategy Committee under Paul Twomey which discussed, inter alia, under "internaitonalization" the option of a second ICANN HQ (under Swiss or Belgium Law). This project was called "ICANN International". Unfortunately, due to other priorities, the idea was never further discussed in detail.
With all the cases we have seen in the last years that decisions by US
courts affects parties outside the US it seems to me that we have to come back to such a discussion when we move forward into a broader gTLD space. With hundreds of new registries, based outside the US and more than 1000 registrars around the whole globe we will probably move into a complicated situation where we have very confusing and unacceptable constellations in handling concrete legal cases. This includes also the issue of privacy/whois.
I have no clear idea at the moment how we can find a reasonable way to
accomodate the various individual/national interests in a workable legal constellation, however it seems to me that we have to offer alternative options for new contracting parties in this field.
Furthermore, to continue with the present practice feeds arguments by UN
member states to look for alternatives. Some of them see such todays situation as in contrast to the spirit of para. 68 of the Tunis agenda which is not really true but also not totally wrong.
It would be indeed a wise pro-active step of the GNSO council if we
would re-start such a discussion. It will be primarily future members of the GNSO and their constituency which will have here problems and they will be thankful if they realize that by joining the GNSO they enter an open and sensitive community.
Thanks
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org im Auftrag von Thomas Rickert Gesendet: Fr 14.09.2012 11:09 An: GNSO Council List Betreff: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda
Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I
would like to propose two topics now.
1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of
California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that.
2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others,
requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness.
Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
Ching, all, thank you for all your responses to my proposal. The brainstorming session could be an ideal place to discuss the various implications and respond to all the issues brought up. Thanks, Thomas Am 18.09.2012 um 07:49 schrieb Ching Chiao:
Personally I suggest the Council should investigate the locality of contract issue before putting it on the table: a. It involves ASO and ccNSO which some of the members in those two orgs have contracts / MoUs with ICANN. What are their positions on this? b. Maybe I am wrong on this ... but If worldwide registrars have issues with ICANN on locality of contract, they should have already acted on it, but they did not. c. So IMHO, this discussion will lead to revision of contract revision and create even more complex legal structure. This perhaps benefit lawyers more than the applicants.
Thomas -- I still appreciate your consideration on this issue. Would you be able to share any views from others in CPH / ASO / ccNSO ?
Best regards,
Ching
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM, William Drake <william.drake@uzh.ch> wrote:
I agree the issue merits a bit of GNSO discussion, even if any decisions will fall to the Board.
Bill
On Sep 16, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
Thanks Thomas for raising this issue.
I fully agree with the intention of Thomas points. As you will remember there was a President´s Strategy Committee under Paul Twomey which discussed, inter alia, under "internaitonalization" the option of a second ICANN HQ (under Swiss or Belgium Law). This project was called "ICANN International". Unfortunately, due to other priorities, the idea was never further discussed in detail.
With all the cases we have seen in the last years that decisions by US courts affects parties outside the US it seems to me that we have to come back to such a discussion when we move forward into a broader gTLD space. With hundreds of new registries, based outside the US and more than 1000 registrars around the whole globe we will probably move into a complicated situation where we have very confusing and unacceptable constellations in handling concrete legal cases. This includes also the issue of privacy/whois.
I have no clear idea at the moment how we can find a reasonable way to accomodate the various individual/national interests in a workable legal constellation, however it seems to me that we have to offer alternative options for new contracting parties in this field.
Furthermore, to continue with the present practice feeds arguments by UN member states to look for alternatives. Some of them see such todays situation as in contrast to the spirit of para. 68 of the Tunis agenda which is not really true but also not totally wrong.
It would be indeed a wise pro-active step of the GNSO council if we would re-start such a discussion. It will be primarily future members of the GNSO and their constituency which will have here problems and they will be thankful if they realize that by joining the GNSO they enter an open and sensitive community.
Thanks
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org im Auftrag von Thomas Rickert Gesendet: Fr 14.09.2012 11:09 An: GNSO Council List Betreff: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda
Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now.
1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that.
2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness.
Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
All, First of all let me thank Thomas for kicking off this discussion. Let me also take this opportunity to remind you all that Wolf and Glen and the rest of the leadership team are eagerly awaiting your suggestions for discussion topics for our Toronto meetings with the Board, the GAC and the ccNSO. On top of that, I am also eagerly waiting on instructions from the Council as to which topics to raise during the GAC High Level Meeting. This preamble over, let me get to Thomas' suggested topic. The real issue of noteworthy discussion with the Board seems to me the more general issue of the internationalization of ICANN. Thomas has chosen to look at this from one viewpoint and it is indeed worthwhile discussing, but I agree with Jeff that this may not be the best forum for that. However, I would suggest that the more general issue is one that we can discuss with the Board. It is clear from the recent announcement about Fadi starting his CEO job early and the changes he has made that he is already looking at boosting internationalization for the organization. I can also tell you from conversations I've had with Fadi that this is indeed a matter of utmost importance to him. So perhaps we could work on a discussion topic for our Toronto meeting with the Board that looks at the greater question of internationalization? Let me know what you think. Stéphane Van Gelder Directeur Général / General manager INDOM NetNames France ---------------- Registry Relations and Strategy Director NetNames T: +33 (0)1 48 01 83 51 F: +33 (0)1 48 01 83 61 Le 18 sept. 2012 à 12:26, Thomas Rickert a écrit :
Ching, all, thank you for all your responses to my proposal.
The brainstorming session could be an ideal place to discuss the various implications and respond to all the issues brought up.
Thanks, Thomas
Am 18.09.2012 um 07:49 schrieb Ching Chiao:
Personally I suggest the Council should investigate the locality of contract issue before putting it on the table: a. It involves ASO and ccNSO which some of the members in those two orgs have contracts / MoUs with ICANN. What are their positions on this? b. Maybe I am wrong on this ... but If worldwide registrars have issues with ICANN on locality of contract, they should have already acted on it, but they did not. c. So IMHO, this discussion will lead to revision of contract revision and create even more complex legal structure. This perhaps benefit lawyers more than the applicants.
Thomas -- I still appreciate your consideration on this issue. Would you be able to share any views from others in CPH / ASO / ccNSO ?
Best regards,
Ching
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:06 PM, William Drake <william.drake@uzh.ch> wrote:
I agree the issue merits a bit of GNSO discussion, even if any decisions will fall to the Board.
Bill
On Sep 16, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:
Thanks Thomas for raising this issue.
I fully agree with the intention of Thomas points. As you will remember there was a President´s Strategy Committee under Paul Twomey which discussed, inter alia, under "internaitonalization" the option of a second ICANN HQ (under Swiss or Belgium Law). This project was called "ICANN International". Unfortunately, due to other priorities, the idea was never further discussed in detail.
With all the cases we have seen in the last years that decisions by US courts affects parties outside the US it seems to me that we have to come back to such a discussion when we move forward into a broader gTLD space. With hundreds of new registries, based outside the US and more than 1000 registrars around the whole globe we will probably move into a complicated situation where we have very confusing and unacceptable constellations in handling concrete legal cases. This includes also the issue of privacy/whois.
I have no clear idea at the moment how we can find a reasonable way to accomodate the various individual/national interests in a workable legal constellation, however it seems to me that we have to offer alternative options for new contracting parties in this field.
Furthermore, to continue with the present practice feeds arguments by UN member states to look for alternatives. Some of them see such todays situation as in contrast to the spirit of para. 68 of the Tunis agenda which is not really true but also not totally wrong.
It would be indeed a wise pro-active step of the GNSO council if we would re-start such a discussion. It will be primarily future members of the GNSO and their constituency which will have here problems and they will be thankful if they realize that by joining the GNSO they enter an open and sensitive community.
Thanks
wolfgang
________________________________
Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org im Auftrag von Thomas Rickert Gesendet: Fr 14.09.2012 11:09 An: GNSO Council List Betreff: [council] suggestions for the Toronto agenda
Stéphane, Wolf-Ulrich and Jeff, all, since we did not have the time to discuss agenda items for Toronto, I would like to propose two topics now.
1. At the moment, all contracts with ICANN are governed by the laws of California. For ICANN to be globally inclusive, it would seem appropriate to me if ICANN would offer contracts at least one in each of the regions under one regional law. I would like to kick-off a discussion on that.
2. In the course of the RAA negotiations there are, amongst others, requests for (i) validation prior to the resolution of domain names and annual re-verification to increase Whois accuracy as well as for (ii) data retention for two years past the life of the registration. Particularly these two areas will have an enormous impact on the whole community. Yet, there does not seem to be community-wide attention to that and the practical and legal implications thereof. Let me clarify that this it not meant to affect the Registrars' mandate to negotiate or change the Council's role. It is more about raising awareness.
Thanks for all your work on putting the agenda together, Thomas
participants (6)
-
"Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" -
Ching Chiao -
Neuman, Jeff -
Stéphane Van Gelder -
Thomas Rickert -
William Drake