RE: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting
The work of the PDP-WT does not have to stop while it waits for a decision on funding for a F2F. The timing of their request in relation to when they would like to have a F2F should not be a factor here, and it is not the main issue we should be concerned with in making this decision. I have no problem discussing it at our next meeting, but would fully support putting off any vote until the next Council meeting. Tim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting From: Stéphane_Van_Gelder <stephane.vangelder@indom.com> Date: Fri, December 11, 2009 10:57 am To: GNSO Council <council@gnso.icann.org> Cc: Jeff Neuman <Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us>, "Gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org" <gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org> Considering the timing issues highlighted by Jeff in his request, I think Council should make an exception and discuss it at the next meeting. We should also be mindful of the precedent any decision the Council takes on this (whether for or against) will set. I am worried about the risk of generating multiple requests for F2F meetings from groups if we come out in favor of this request. I am also worried about the apparent dysfunctional nature of the PPSC that is being described here. If it is true that the PPSC has spent its last 3 teleconferences discussing its need for a F2F meeting, then this is a clear example of the system treading on its own head. If this really is the case, and I've also seen Jeff lament the lack of participation from his group (and once again, all credit to Jeff for his job as chair), then I think Council needs to call the PPSC to account before even considering any F2F meeting requests from one of the PPSC subgroups. It may be that the PPSC needs Council's help or guidance in becoming a functional group again. And that may be the first order of business for us in any PPSC discussion. Thanks, Stéphane Le 11 déc. 2009 à 17:38, Tim Ruiz a écrit :
Chuck,
I think Mike's point about the PDP-WT's request first being evaluated by the PPSC is correct. The PDP-WT was formed by the PPSC, not the Council. If the PPSC has not been consulted then I agree that it should be consulted before the Council take any action on this. The timing of the request in relation to the actual F2F should not be used as an excuse to try to hurry this along. If approved, the WT can meet in February if January doesn't work out.
The PDP-WT has had considerable time to make the request considering when it first came up (before Seoul). It appears to me the last three or so conference calls have focused on it. In fact, if they'd spent their time actually dealing with charter issues instead of debating the F2F issue there may not be a need for a F2F.
As you said yourself, "already budgeted GNSO Improvement funds used for this request would not be available for funding of other such requests in the future or for other GNSO improvement implementation actions in this fiscal year." And, "there are no provisions in any of the documents that govern Council operation that provide procedures for Council action on issues like this." So I don't think it is wise for Council to rush to a vote on this.
Tim
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com> Date: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:40 am To: <icann@rodenbaugh.com>, <council@gnso.icann.org> Cc: "Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us>, <gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org>, "Zahid Jamil" <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
Please note my responses below Mike. Please understand that my comments should not be interpreted to mean that I support or oppose the request. That is a decision for the whole Council to make and the reason it is being added to the agenda is so that the Council can consider the pros and cons. I plan to participate in that discussion in our meeting and will voice my personal opinions and those of the RySG in that regard then.
Chuck
From: Mike Rodenbaugh [mailto:icann@rodenbaugh.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 9:29 AM To: Gomes, Chuck; council@gnso.icann.org Cc: 'Neuman, Jeff'; gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org Subject: RE: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting
The BC will exercise its right to push any vote on this issue to the next meeting in Jaunuary, as we have not begun to discuss the issue and therefore have not come to a consensus position. The issue certainly does not warrant emergency consideration in the next 7 days, particularly given all of the other issues we are considering these days. [Gomes, Chuck] To what "right" are you referring? It is correct that we have had a consistent practice of honoring a request by any constituency if they needed more time to consider an issue. I support that practice if such a request is coming from a Stakeholder Group and I think even if it comes from a constituency within a SG, so I personally would like to request from you Mike and Zahid as Councilors from the BC, that you would both confirm that the BC supports your request for delay. It is my understanding that the BC has an Executive Committee, so if it is not possible to confirm this with the full BC membership, I am sure that your executive committee could act on my request between now and 17 December. It has also been a practice of the Council to consider exceptions to procedures and practices in cases where time sensitivity is a factor. In our meeting on Thursday we will debate whether an exception is warranted in this case as well as whether the work of this WT is a high priority. Please note Mike that a request to delay a decision on this means that a F2F meeting, if supported, could likely not happen in January as proposed by the WT and that a delay until February could possibly reduce the progress made on the PDP work before the Nairobi meeting. Finally, considering the fact that you are a member of the PDP WT on behalf of the BC, am I correct in assuming that you have kept the BC membership informed of the issues the WT has considered including the possibility of a F2F meeting on an ongoing basis? If so, am I correct in assuming that you have already obtained feedback from BC members on this issue? It seems to me that the BC has had considerable time to discuss this issue, so to invoke a Council practice may not be well justified in your case.
Also, the PDP-WT should not be making requests of Council, especially requests that do not have consensus even of the WT. The PPSC should be evaluating this request now, and should make any recommendation to Council, if any. This was the process that was agrees when we formed the PPSC and the WTs, and there is no justification to ignore it now, simply because a WT Chair, some of its members, and a few ICANN Staff apparently think this is an emergency to schedule a F2F meeting. [Gomes, Chuck] I understand that you personally oppose this request but I encourage you not to use process and procedural arguments to advance your personal agenda. If this is truly a BC issue, fine, but I again I ask you and Zahid to please confirm that the BC membership and/or executive committee supports your request for a delay.
If Council is going to act on this request, it must be in the context of our overall prioritization work, and not on an emergency basis as appears to be requested. [Gomes, Chuck] No one to my knowledge has called this an emergency but there are clearly those who believe it is a higher priority than you do. The goal in our upcoming meeting is to get a sense of where the full Council is on this. And I look forward to a lively discussion on the pros and cons.
Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW 548 Market Street San Francisco, CA 94104 (415) 738-8087 http://rodenbaugh.com
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 6:02 AM To: council@gnso.icann.org Cc: Neuman, Jeff; gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org Subject: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting Importance: High
Here is a request from Jeff Neuman, chair of the PDP WT and chair of the PPSC, for a face-to-face (F2F) WT meeting including ICANN travel funding support. Please ignore a previous version of Jeff's message distributed on the Council list because it was sent to the Council list prematurely.
Please note that a detailed request is provided in the attached file. In preparation for our Council meeting on 17 December, please review Jeff's message below and the attached file for discussion and possible action by the Council in that meeting. And please forward this message with the attachment to your respective groups immediately so that they can do the same and provide Councilors input before 17 December and thereby provide you any direction they have on this issue.
Note that this request was received after the required deadline in the Council Operation Procedures so we will have to decide whether to make an exception to the Procedures before taking any action. The reason for considering this exception is because the request is for a F2F meeting in January and to delay a decision until our 7 January meeting would be too late to allow adequate time for travel plans and other arrangements. Also note that there are no provisions in any of the documents that govern Council operation that provide procedures for Council action on issues like this; we quite possibly will need to consider that topic sometime in the future. At present though, I believe it is important for the Council to be involved in this decision because already budgeted GNSO Improvement funds used for this request would not be available for funding of other such requests in the future or for other GNSO improvement implementation actions in this fiscal year. Staff will provide more details on funds available.
Jeff Neuman has been invited to participate in the 17 December Council meeting so he can be available to answer questions.
In the meantime, I encourage discussion on the Council list.
Chuck
From: Neuman, Jeff [mailto:Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:47 PM To: Gomes, Chuck Cc: Glen de Saint Géry; gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org; gnso-ppsc@icann.org Subject: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting Chuck,
Please find enclosed a request by the PDP Work Team for a face to face meeting in January 2010 which sets forth the rationale for needing such a working session. This draft was discussed by the PDP Work Team on e-mail and during two conference calls. Although there was not a consensus on the request for such a face to face meeting within the PDP WT, there was strong support from the RySG, the IP Constituency, the ISP Constituency, ALAC and one of the two Business Constituency representatives for the reasons stated within the attached document. The Registrar representatives and 1 of the business constituency representatives were not in favor of the request. The NCSG generally believes that there could be a positive benefit from a face to face meeting with the caveats expressed below. The PDP WT offers no opinion in this document on the general role of face to face meetings, the Councils role in approving or supporting those face to face meetings, etc., but rather focuses on our specific request.
The request was sent to the full Policy Process Steering Committee on December 5, 2009, and although no comments were actually received from any person on the PPSC that was not already a member of the PDP WT, there were a number of e-mails on various mailing lists on this topic. The discussions are primarily archived on two lists: (i) the PPSC list (http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-ppsc/) and (ii) the PDP-WT list (the PDP WT list - http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-ppsc-pdp/). It should be noted that the PPSC as a whole has been inactive since the formation of the Work Teams early this year. In fact some members of the PPSC listed at https://st.icann.org/icann-ppsc/index.cgi?policy_process_steering_committee_..., may not be members of the Council or even active in the community. That is a separate issue that I plan on addressing in the next few weeks.
The NCSG arguments can be found in full at http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-ppsc-pdp/msg00241.html. To summarize, the NCSG has argued that there is not a consensus of the group in support of (i) the rationale for the Face to Face meeting, (ii) the appropriateness of holding such a meeting in the United States, and (iii) the resolution of how many people from each SG or constituency should be funded by ICANN to attend. The NCSG believes that there should be parity of representatives funded to attend face to face meetings by Stakeholder Group (as opposed to by Constituency). Finally, there was a question raised as to who makes the decisions on holding and funding these types of meetings (the Work Team, the Steering Committee, the GNSO Council, ICANN Policy Staff, etc.).
Whether or not we have a face to face meeting, each member of the PDP WT with the exception of one business constituency representative believes that the work of the PDP-WT is essential and should be of the highest priority of the GNSO Council and community. The work being performed in the WT was work directed to be done ultimately by the Board Governance Committee as part of the GNSO Improvements Process. The finalization of the Policy Development Process will guide how all future policy is made under the new structure and as such should be resolved as quickly as possible. The review of the PDP is incredibly broad and complex. There are a number of difficult issues that we have been, and continue to be, tackling in order to come up with a process acceptable to the global Internet community. The core group of participants (including ICANN policy staff) are diverse, knowledgeable, passionate and highly respected members of the community and are fully committed to seeing this process through to the end regardless of having this face to face meeting. I have the utmost respect for each member of the team.
Please let me know if you have any questions. I would be happy to make myself available for the Council meeting to address any questions.
Thank you for your consideration of our request.
Jeffrey J. Neuman , PDP Work Team Chair Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy 46000 Center Oak Plaza Sterling, VA 20166 Office: +1.571.434.5772 Mobile: +1.202.549.5079 Fax: +1.703.738.7965 / jeff.neuman@neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message.
Yep, all I'm saying is let's not refuse to discuss it at the next meeting just because the 8 day requirement wasn't met. I'm not presuming anything as to how that discussion might go. Thanks, Stéphane Le 11 déc. 2009 à 18:08, Tim Ruiz a écrit :
The work of the PDP-WT does not have to stop while it waits for a decision on funding for a F2F. The timing of their request in relation to when they would like to have a F2F should not be a factor here, and it is not the main issue we should be concerned with in making this decision. I have no problem discussing it at our next meeting, but would fully support putting off any vote until the next Council meeting.
Tim -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting From: Stéphane_Van_Gelder <stephane.vangelder@indom.com> Date: Fri, December 11, 2009 10:57 am To: GNSO Council <council@gnso.icann.org> Cc: Jeff Neuman <Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us>, "Gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org" <gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org>
Considering the timing issues highlighted by Jeff in his request, I think Council should make an exception and discuss it at the next meeting.
We should also be mindful of the precedent any decision the Council takes on this (whether for or against) will set.
I am worried about the risk of generating multiple requests for F2F meetings from groups if we come out in favor of this request.
I am also worried about the apparent dysfunctional nature of the PPSC that is being described here. If it is true that the PPSC has spent its last 3 teleconferences discussing its need for a F2F meeting, then this is a clear example of the system treading on its own head. If this really is the case, and I've also seen Jeff lament the lack of participation from his group (and once again, all credit to Jeff for his job as chair), then I think Council needs to call the PPSC to account before even considering any F2F meeting requests from one of the PPSC subgroups.
It may be that the PPSC needs Council's help or guidance in becoming a functional group again. And that may be the first order of business for us in any PPSC discussion.
Thanks,
Stéphane
Le 11 déc. 2009 à 17:38, Tim Ruiz a écrit :
Chuck,
I think Mike's point about the PDP-WT's request first being evaluated by the PPSC is correct. The PDP-WT was formed by the PPSC, not the Council. If the PPSC has not been consulted then I agree that it should be consulted before the Council take any action on this. The timing of the request in relation to the actual F2F should not be used as an excuse to try to hurry this along. If approved, the WT can meet in February if January doesn't work out.
The PDP-WT has had considerable time to make the request considering when it first came up (before Seoul). It appears to me the last three or so conference calls have focused on it. In fact, if they'd spent their time actually dealing with charter issues instead of debating the F2F issue there may not be a need for a F2F.
As you said yourself, "already budgeted GNSO Improvement funds used for this request would not be available for funding of other such requests in the future or for other GNSO improvement implementation actions in this fiscal year." And, "there are no provisions in any of the documents that govern Council operation that provide procedures for Council action on issues like this." So I don't think it is wise for Council to rush to a vote on this.
Tim
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com> Date: Fri, December 11, 2009 9:40 am To: <icann@rodenbaugh.com>, <council@gnso.icann.org> Cc: "Neuman, Jeff" <Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us>, <gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org>, "Zahid Jamil" <zahid@jamilandjamil.com>
Please note my responses below Mike. Please understand that my comments should not be interpreted to mean that I support or oppose the request. That is a decision for the whole Council to make and the reason it is being added to the agenda is so that the Council can consider the pros and cons. I plan to participate in that discussion in our meeting and will voice my personal opinions and those of the RySG in that regard then.
Chuck
From: Mike Rodenbaugh [mailto:icann@rodenbaugh.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 9:29 AM To: Gomes, Chuck; council@gnso.icann.org Cc: 'Neuman, Jeff'; gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org Subject: RE: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting
The BC will exercise its right to push any vote on this issue to the next meeting in Jaunuary, as we have not begun to discuss the issue and therefore have not come to a consensus position. The issue certainly does not warrant emergency consideration in the next 7 days, particularly given all of the other issues we are considering these days. [Gomes, Chuck] To what "right" are you referring? It is correct that we have had a consistent practice of honoring a request by any constituency if they needed more time to consider an issue. I support that practice if such a request is coming from a Stakeholder Group and I think even if it comes from a constituency within a SG, so I personally would like to request from you Mike and Zahid as Councilors from the BC, that you would both confirm that the BC supports your request for delay. It is my understanding that the BC has an Executive Committee, so if it is not possible to confirm this with the full BC membership, I am sure that your executive committee could act on my request between now and 17 December. It has also been a practice of the Council to consider exceptions to procedures and practices in cases where time sensitivity is a factor. In our meeting on Thursday we will debate whether an exception is warranted in this case as well as whether the work of this WT is a high priority. Please note Mike that a request to delay a decision on this means that a F2F meeting, if supported, could likely not happen in January as proposed by the WT and that a delay until February could possibly reduce the progress made on the PDP work before the Nairobi meeting. Finally, considering the fact that you are a member of the PDP WT on behalf of the BC, am I correct in assuming that you have kept the BC membership informed of the issues the WT has considered including the possibility of a F2F meeting on an ongoing basis? If so, am I correct in assuming that you have already obtained feedback from BC members on this issue? It seems to me that the BC has had considerable time to discuss this issue, so to invoke a Council practice may not be well justified in your case.
Also, the PDP-WT should not be making requests of Council, especially requests that do not have consensus even of the WT. The PPSC should be evaluating this request now, and should make any recommendation to Council, if any. This was the process that was agrees when we formed the PPSC and the WTs, and there is no justification to ignore it now, simply because a WT Chair, some of its members, and a few ICANN Staff apparently think this is an emergency to schedule a F2F meeting. [Gomes, Chuck] I understand that you personally oppose this request but I encourage you not to use process and procedural arguments to advance your personal agenda. If this is truly a BC issue, fine, but I again I ask you and Zahid to please confirm that the BC membership and/or executive committee supports your request for a delay.
If Council is going to act on this request, it must be in the context of our overall prioritization work, and not on an emergency basis as appears to be requested. [Gomes, Chuck] No one to my knowledge has called this an emergency but there are clearly those who believe it is a higher priority than you do. The goal in our upcoming meeting is to get a sense of where the full Council is on this. And I look forward to a lively discussion on the pros and cons.
Mike Rodenbaugh RODENBAUGH LAW 548 Market Street San Francisco, CA 94104 (415) 738-8087 http://rodenbaugh.com
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 6:02 AM To: council@gnso.icann.org Cc: Neuman, Jeff; gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org Subject: [council] FW: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting Importance: High
Here is a request from Jeff Neuman, chair of the PDP WT and chair of the PPSC, for a face-to-face (F2F) WT meeting including ICANN travel funding support. Please ignore a previous version of Jeff's message distributed on the Council list because it was sent to the Council list prematurely.
Please note that a detailed request is provided in the attached file. In preparation for our Council meeting on 17 December, please review Jeff's message below and the attached file for discussion and possible action by the Council in that meeting. And please forward this message with the attachment to your respective groups immediately so that they can do the same and provide Councilors input before 17 December and thereby provide you any direction they have on this issue.
Note that this request was received after the required deadline in the Council Operation Procedures so we will have to decide whether to make an exception to the Procedures before taking any action. The reason for considering this exception is because the request is for a F2F meeting in January and to delay a decision until our 7 January meeting would be too late to allow adequate time for travel plans and other arrangements. Also note that there are no provisions in any of the documents that govern Council operation that provide procedures for Council action on issues like this; we quite possibly will need to consider that topic sometime in the future. At present though, I believe it is important for the Council to be involved in this decision because already budgeted GNSO Improvement funds used for this request would not be available for funding of other such requests in the future or for other GNSO improvement implementation actions in this fiscal year. Staff will provide more details on funds available.
Jeff Neuman has been invited to participate in the 17 December Council meeting so he can be available to answer questions.
In the meantime, I encourage discussion on the Council list.
Chuck
From: Neuman, Jeff [mailto:Jeff.Neuman@neustar.us] Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:47 PM To: Gomes, Chuck Cc: Glen de Saint Géry; gnso-ppsc-pdp@icann.org; gnso-ppsc@icann.org Subject: Support for a PDP Work Team Face to Face Meeting Chuck,
Please find enclosed a request by the PDP Work Team for a face to face meeting in January 2010 which sets forth the rationale for needing such a working session. This draft was discussed by the PDP Work Team on e-mail and during two conference calls. Although there was not a consensus on the request for such a face to face meeting within the PDP WT, there was strong support from the RySG, the IP Constituency, the ISP Constituency, ALAC and one of the two Business Constituency representatives for the reasons stated within the attached document. The Registrar representatives and 1 of the business constituency representatives were not in favor of the request. The NCSG generally believes that there could be a positive benefit from a face to face meeting with the caveats expressed below. The PDP WT offers no opinion in this document on the general role of face to face meetings, the Councils role in approving or supporting those face to face meetings, etc., but rather focuses on our specific request.
The request was sent to the full Policy Process Steering Committee on December 5, 2009, and although no comments were actually received from any person on the PPSC that was not already a member of the PDP WT, there were a number of e-mails on various mailing lists on this topic. The discussions are primarily archived on two lists: (i) the PPSC list (http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-ppsc/) and (ii) the PDP-WT list (the PDP WT list - http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-ppsc-pdp/). It should be noted that the PPSC as a whole has been inactive since the formation of the Work Teams early this year. In fact some members of the PPSC listed at https://st.icann.org/icann-ppsc/index.cgi?policy_process_steering_committee_..., may not be members of the Council or even active in the community. That is a separate issue that I plan on addressing in the next few weeks.
The NCSG arguments can be found in full at http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-ppsc-pdp/msg00241.html. To summarize, the NCSG has argued that there is not a consensus of the group in support of (i) the rationale for the Face to Face meeting, (ii) the appropriateness of holding such a meeting in the United States, and (iii) the resolution of how many people from each SG or constituency should be funded by ICANN to attend. The NCSG believes that there should be parity of representatives funded to attend face to face meetings by Stakeholder Group (as opposed to by Constituency). Finally, there was a question raised as to who makes the decisions on holding and funding these types of meetings (the Work Team, the Steering Committee, the GNSO Council, ICANN Policy Staff, etc.).
Whether or not we have a face to face meeting, each member of the PDP WT with the exception of one business constituency representative believes that the work of the PDP-WT is essential and should be of the highest priority of the GNSO Council and community. The work being performed in the WT was work directed to be done ultimately by the Board Governance Committee as part of the GNSO Improvements Process. The finalization of the Policy Development Process will guide how all future policy is made under the new structure and as such should be resolved as quickly as possible. The review of the PDP is incredibly broad and complex. There are a number of difficult issues that we have been, and continue to be, tackling in order to come up with a process acceptable to the global Internet community. The core group of participants (including ICANN policy staff) are diverse, knowledgeable, passionate and highly respected members of the community and are fully committed to seeing this process through to the end regardless of having this face to face meeting. I have the utmost respect for each member of the team.
Please let me know if you have any questions. I would be happy to make myself available for the Council meeting to address any questions.
Thank you for your consideration of our request.
Jeffrey J. Neuman , PDP Work Team Chair Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Law & Policy 46000 Center Oak Plaza Sterling, VA 20166 Office: +1.571.434.5772 Mobile: +1.202.549.5079 Fax: +1.703.738.7965 / jeff.neuman@neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message.
participants (2)
-
Stéphane Van Gelder -
Tim Ruiz