Tim, Some thoughts. I share your concern about Council voting for funds for itself. No constituency benefitting from funds should vote. ..... ahhh. 2. Discussion on need seems to be raised only by us. It is NOT in the travel policy. It is therefore off topic. 3. There are privacy issues also wrt to organisations and budgets. 4. Please do not be so naïve to believe that a trade association or consultant representing a multi-national shares the multinationals profits. Philip