Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Forwarded with permission a. Begin forwarded message:
From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00
Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Peter and Paul,
Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience.
Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi.
Kind Regards,
Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au
Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
Here a some of my thoughts in response to this letter as well as some suggested action items that I think should be done in the next few days. First of all, I compliment the ccNSO on a well articulated letter with what seems to me to be a constructive tone. Second, I suggest that Avri officially support the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi, an idea that I believe she has already indicated support for. Third, I recommend that we use the time we have between now and New Delhi to carefully prepare for the proposed joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Regarding the latter: * I believe that completion of the GNSO response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs is a key step. Ideally it would have been good to accomplish that before the end of the ccNSO public comment period on their IDN ccTLD PDP (25 January). Because that is not feasible before the New Delhi meetings, I suggest that, before 25 January, Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. [Note that we would need to act on this before the end of this current week so we will have to decide whether or not to do this via our list.] * I do not think that it will be effective to engage in discussion with the ccNSO regarding the issues we are concerned about prior to the joint meeting in New Delhi. In my opinion, the chances are too high that there will be misunderstanding and even miscommunication until both Councils are face to face and that can cause more harm to the success of the joint meeting than good. * As a means of getting our preparation for the joint meeting started, I identify the following points from the ccNSO letter to the Board for which I believe we need to prepare: 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days; 2) they appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised; 3) they state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO; 4) they also believe that they must be dealt with in a PDP. I provide my preliminary thinking about each of these below. 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days. * The original intent of the 120 day target was to attempt to avoid any further delays in the implementation of IDN TLDs (gTLDs or cc fast track IDN TLDs). * I believe that the goal of avoiding further delays remains valid and if the 120 day target is unrealistic, then it is important to begin work on the issues we raised as soon as possible with the goal of at least agreeing to some interim approach until full resolution of the issues can be completed. 2) They appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised. * I believe that this may be a fundamental difference of opinion between the GNSO and ccNSO but not one that necessarily needs to be a show stopper. I think it is less important for the two SO's to come to agreement on the assumption than it is to jointly develop an interim approach as suggested in the previous item. * I don't think we should spend a lot of time trying to convince them that a final policy for allocating new TLDs into GNSO and ccNSO name space has to happen before any IDN TLDs are introduced, but instead we should work together to come up with a way that our concerns can be addressed in the short term. I Therefore, I recommend that we focus our attention on coming up with some ways forward on this that satisfy our needs with regard to TLD allocation and still allow the ccNSO to deal with the bigger policy issues over a longer period of time. 3) They state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO. * This is a point where I believe there is gap in understanding between the GNSO and ccNSO or at least there does not seem to be an recognition of a key point we tried to make: allocation of new TLDs into the DNS is an issue that affects both SO's and therefore must be worked by both SO's. * This is an area that I think deserves caution because I think it would be counterproductive for us to give the impression that the GNSO wants to determine policy for the ccNSO so we should make it clear from the outset that that is not our intent. * This is a place where an example might be helpful. Consider the case of .berlin. Should that be a GNSO or a ccNSO. It appears to me at a minimum that guidelines need to be in place before .berlin is introduce that determine what SO has policy responsibility. And any such guidelines need to be developed by both SO's because both SO's are impacted. 4) They believe that the issues the GNSO raised must be dealt with in a PDP. * If this is the case, which PDP process should be used? the GNSO PDP or the ccNSO PDP? It may not matter too much provided that the PDP used allows for full participation by the other SO with regard to the TLD allocation issue. * At present, there is not a joint PDP process in the ICANN Bylaws; maybe this is an idea for further development. * The idea of a less formal joint working group was made to facilitate a timely response to the issues. In my opinion, waiting two years for a ccNSO PDP process doesn't work, at least not for the development of an interim approach to the broader TLD allocation issues. This seems to be a key area where the two SO's need to focus attention. * In the meantime, I am confident that we can work together with the ccNSO. From what I have observed so far, the ccNSO is heading in a direction that is not far off from what we could support. In the draft issues report that the IDNC is considering, one idea under consideration for IDN ccTLD string selection is this: "the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the Territory or an abbreviation of the name of the Territory in the relevant script". Please note that this is not a final position. But if it is adopted it provides some defined limitations in terms of IDN ccTLDs and could possibly even be used in developing interim guidelines for allocation of TLDs into the two policy name spaces.o Finally, I have concerns about the following statement in the next to last paragraph of the ccNSO letter to the Board: "During the process the delegation of new TLDs would need to be suspended to ensure that TLDs are not created in circumstances that would be a breach of the policy being developed." I think we need to get clarification of this in the proposed joint meeting. Considering that the ccNSO PDP is estimated to take at least two years, this could easily be a way of delaying IDN gTLDs, depending on what it means. I am not suggesting that it was intended that way but I definitely think we need to get clarity in that regard. In conclusion, I am proposing the following action times, the first two of which need to happen in the next four days (NLT 25 Jan.): 1. Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. 2. Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. 3. We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP. To facilitate moving forward on the above so that we can meet the time constraints, please comment on the Council list right away. Chuck ________________________________ From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:30 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Importance: High Forwarded with permission a. Begin forwarded message: From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00 Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Peter and Paul, Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience. Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi. Kind Regards, Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
hi, On 21 Jan 2008, at 17:35, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
• Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi.
when I wrote asking permission to fprward their letter to the GNSO council, I also said(basd on the feedback I had already received):
The GNSO looks forward to your invitation to a joint meeting.
My next action was going to be to pass on the invitation to the council list once I received it ad get the council's approval for formal acceptance. This can be done via the list if we wish.
• Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP.
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
• We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP.
Once we receive the invitation, and know the conditions of the invitation, e.g. open or closed, when, formal or informal etc, we should certainly start doing so. Also note that I have included planning for that that as a major agenda item for our Sunday meeting in ND. Thanks a.
hi Apologies, I dashed this off while i was editing a Internet draft and was not being careful about my typos. Of course I meant as vice-chair, though it does show the esteem in which I hold our cooperation. a. Begin forwarded message:
From: Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> Date: 21 January 2008 18:05:10 GMT+01:00 To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
hi,
On 21 Jan 2008, at 17:35, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
• Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi.
when I wrote asking permission to fprward their letter to the GNSO council, I also said(basd on the feedback I had already received):
The GNSO looks forward to your invitation to a joint meeting.
My next action was going to be to pass on the invitation to the council list once I received it ad get the council's approval for formal acceptance. This can be done via the list if we wish.
• Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP.
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
• We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP.
Once we receive the invitation, and know the conditions of the invitation, e.g. open or closed, when, formal or informal etc, we should certainly start doing so. Also note that I have included planning for that that as a major agenda item for our Sunday meeting in ND.
Thanks
a.
Thanks for the esteem Avri. I hadn't yet seen your response so I hadn't noticed the promotion yet! :) Please see my comments below. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri@psg.com] Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 4:53 PM To: Gomes, Chuck Cc: Council GNSO Subject: Fwd: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution hi Apologies, I dashed this off while i was editing a Internet draft and was not being careful about my typos. Of course I meant as vice-chair, though it does show the esteem in which I hold our cooperation. a. Begin forwarded message:
From: Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> Date: 21 January 2008 18:05:10 GMT+01:00 To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
hi,
On 21 Jan 2008, at 17:35, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
* Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the
recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi.
when I wrote asking permission to fprward their letter to the GNSO council, I also said(basd on the feedback I had already received):
The GNSO looks forward to your invitation to a joint meeting.
My next action was going to be to pass on the invitation to the council list once I received it ad get the council's approval for formal acceptance. This can be done via the list if we wish.
Sounds like a good plan to me. I would just suggest that we do it quickly, hopefully on the list this week, so that we can maybe quell some of the tension that has apparently developed.
* Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP.
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
I would be more than happy to do this (as vice chair) if the Council is supportive of that idea. I think it is less important who sends it than it is that it be sent before the end of the public comment period, which is this coming Friday, 25 January.
* We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP.
Once we receive the invitation, and know the conditions of the invitation, e.g. open or closed, when, formal or informal etc, we should certainly start doing so. Also note that I have included planning for that that as a major agenda item for our Sunday meeting in ND.
I don't think we need to wait until we receive a formal invitation and know about the conditions of the meeting. That is undoubtedly true about the format of the meeting and other logistical details, but the planning I am suggesting has more to do with having a good understanding of our position and our goals going into the meeting. I tried to get the ball rolling on that with the comments I shared in my long message.
Thanks
a.
Hi, Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be sufficient to inform Bart Boswnkle, the staff member responsible the issues report of when we believe our response to the Board will be available so that he can figure this in, as he wishes, to his work and his schedule. The report we are working on is not specifically meant as an input for the ccNSO PDP but as a response to the Board, and I wonder about the wisdom of having it stand in the role of comment to the ccNSO PDP. The GNSO Council could certainly submit something specific in comment if we thought that was appropriate, though it may be more effective for various members and constituencies to do so individually at this point. Once we are ready with the response to the Board, we certainly can make a copy available to Bart. Further, as I do not believe we will be ready until the meeting on 13 Feb, I think it would be asking a lot to ask him to wait for our input. Of course the sooner we publish a draft, the sooner people will have an idea of the direction of the response. That in itself may be helpful. a. On 21 Jan 2008, at 23:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
I would be more than happy to do this (as vice chair) if the Council is supportive of that idea. I think it is less important who sends it than it is that it be sent before the end of the public comment period, which is this coming Friday, 25 January.
Avri, The Board requested that the GNSO respond to ccNSO/GAC Issues Report on in IDN ccTLDs. It seems reasonable to assume that the Board requested our input for use by the ccNSO; I honestly do not think that Board members are directly interested in our input except where it can constructively help the ccNSO process. The questions that are asked in the paper relate very closely to the ccNSO's PDP; in fact, it is my belief that they were written for that purpose. That said, informing Bart is certainly a good thing to do. I would also suggest that we inform Chris because, as chair of the ccNSO, he is undoubtedly working very closely with Bart in development of the issues report. Finally, because the Board initiated the request, it would seem appropriate to notify them of our anticipated completion date. I was not in any way suggesting that we ask Bart to delay his work but rather to notify him that our input was coming so that he could hopefully anticipate it and plan for it because I sincerely believe that we will be providing some input into their process that they will take into consideration. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:42 PM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Hi, Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be sufficient to inform Bart Boswnkle, the staff member responsible the issues report of when we believe our response to the Board will be available so that he can figure this in, as he wishes, to his work and his schedule. The report we are working on is not specifically meant as an input for the ccNSO PDP but as a response to the Board, and I wonder about the wisdom of having it stand in the role of comment to the ccNSO PDP. The GNSO Council could certainly submit something specific in comment if we thought that was appropriate, though it may be more effective for various members and constituencies to do so individually at this point. Once we are ready with the response to the Board, we certainly can make a copy available to Bart. Further, as I do not believe we will be ready until the meeting on 13 Feb, I think it would be asking a lot to ask him to wait for our input. Of course the sooner we publish a draft, the sooner people will have an idea of the direction of the response. That in itself may be helpful. a. On 21 Jan 2008, at 23:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received
the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
I would be more than happy to do this (as vice chair) if the Council is supportive of that idea. I think it is less important who sends it
than it is that it be sent before the end of the public comment period, which is this coming Friday, 25 January.
Avri, Chuck, all, Breaking news: The deadline for comments to the IDN ccTLD Issues Report has just been extended from 25 January until 22 February! Very best regards Olof -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck Sent: den 22 januari 2008 02:04 To: Avri Doria; Council GNSO Subject: RE: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Avri, The Board requested that the GNSO respond to ccNSO/GAC Issues Report on in IDN ccTLDs. It seems reasonable to assume that the Board requested our input for use by the ccNSO; I honestly do not think that Board members are directly interested in our input except where it can constructively help the ccNSO process. The questions that are asked in the paper relate very closely to the ccNSO's PDP; in fact, it is my belief that they were written for that purpose. That said, informing Bart is certainly a good thing to do. I would also suggest that we inform Chris because, as chair of the ccNSO, he is undoubtedly working very closely with Bart in development of the issues report. Finally, because the Board initiated the request, it would seem appropriate to notify them of our anticipated completion date. I was not in any way suggesting that we ask Bart to delay his work but rather to notify him that our input was coming so that he could hopefully anticipate it and plan for it because I sincerely believe that we will be providing some input into their process that they will take into consideration. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:42 PM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Hi, Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be sufficient to inform Bart Boswnkle, the staff member responsible the issues report of when we believe our response to the Board will be available so that he can figure this in, as he wishes, to his work and his schedule. The report we are working on is not specifically meant as an input for the ccNSO PDP but as a response to the Board, and I wonder about the wisdom of having it stand in the role of comment to the ccNSO PDP. The GNSO Council could certainly submit something specific in comment if we thought that was appropriate, though it may be more effective for various members and constituencies to do so individually at this point. Once we are ready with the response to the Board, we certainly can make a copy available to Bart. Further, as I do not believe we will be ready until the meeting on 13 Feb, I think it would be asking a lot to ask him to wait for our input. Of course the sooner we publish a draft, the sooner people will have an idea of the direction of the response. That in itself may be helpful. a. On 21 Jan 2008, at 23:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received
the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
I would be more than happy to do this (as vice chair) if the Council is supportive of that idea. I think it is less important who sends it
than it is that it be sent before the end of the public comment period, which is this coming Friday, 25 January.
Hi, Well then I guess that if we wish submit the GNSO responses, or some derivative of that, to the comments area, we will have time. Thanks for the update. a. On 22 Jan 2008, at 13:17, Olof Nordling wrote:
Avri, Chuck, all, Breaking news: The deadline for comments to the IDN ccTLD Issues Report has just been extended from 25 January until 22 February! Very best regards Olof
-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck Sent: den 22 januari 2008 02:04 To: Avri Doria; Council GNSO Subject: RE: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Avri,
The Board requested that the GNSO respond to ccNSO/GAC Issues Report on in IDN ccTLDs. It seems reasonable to assume that the Board requested our input for use by the ccNSO; I honestly do not think that Board members are directly interested in our input except where it can constructively help the ccNSO process. The questions that are asked in the paper relate very closely to the ccNSO's PDP; in fact, it is my belief that they were written for that purpose.
That said, informing Bart is certainly a good thing to do. I would also suggest that we inform Chris because, as chair of the ccNSO, he is undoubtedly working very closely with Bart in development of the issues report. Finally, because the Board initiated the request, it would seem appropriate to notify them of our anticipated completion date.
I was not in any way suggesting that we ask Bart to delay his work but rather to notify him that our input was coming so that he could hopefully anticipate it and plan for it because I sincerely believe that we will be providing some input into their process that they will take into consideration.
Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:42 PM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Hi,
Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be sufficient to inform Bart Boswnkle, the staff member responsible the issues report of when we believe our response to the Board will be available so that he can figure this in, as he wishes, to his work and his schedule.
The report we are working on is not specifically meant as an input for the ccNSO PDP but as a response to the Board, and I wonder about the wisdom of having it stand in the role of comment to the ccNSO PDP. The GNSO Council could certainly submit something specific in comment if we thought that was appropriate, though it may be more effective for various members and constituencies to do so individually at this point. Once we are ready with the response to the Board, we certainly can make a copy available to Bart.
Further, as I do not believe we will be ready until the meeting on 13 Feb, I think it would be asking a lot to ask him to wait for our input. Of course the sooner we publish a draft, the sooner people will have an idea of the direction of the response. That in itself may be helpful.
a.
On 21 Jan 2008, at 23:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received
the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
I would be more than happy to do this (as vice chair) if the Council is supportive of that idea. I think it is less important who sends it
than it is that it be sent before the end of the public comment period, which is this coming Friday, 25 January.
Thanks Olof. That will eliminate the need for my second recommended action. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Olof Nordling [mailto:olof.nordling@icann.org] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:18 AM To: Gomes, Chuck; 'Avri Doria'; 'Council GNSO' Subject: RE: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Avri, Chuck, all, Breaking news: The deadline for comments to the IDN ccTLD Issues Report has just been extended from 25 January until 22 February! Very best regards Olof -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck Sent: den 22 januari 2008 02:04 To: Avri Doria; Council GNSO Subject: RE: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Avri, The Board requested that the GNSO respond to ccNSO/GAC Issues Report on in IDN ccTLDs. It seems reasonable to assume that the Board requested our input for use by the ccNSO; I honestly do not think that Board members are directly interested in our input except where it can constructively help the ccNSO process. The questions that are asked in the paper relate very closely to the ccNSO's PDP; in fact, it is my belief that they were written for that purpose. That said, informing Bart is certainly a good thing to do. I would also suggest that we inform Chris because, as chair of the ccNSO, he is undoubtedly working very closely with Bart in development of the issues report. Finally, because the Board initiated the request, it would seem appropriate to notify them of our anticipated completion date. I was not in any way suggesting that we ask Bart to delay his work but rather to notify him that our input was coming so that he could hopefully anticipate it and plan for it because I sincerely believe that we will be providing some input into their process that they will take into consideration. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:42 PM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Hi, Personally, the more I think about it, the more I think it might be sufficient to inform Bart Boswnkle, the staff member responsible the issues report of when we believe our response to the Board will be available so that he can figure this in, as he wishes, to his work and his schedule. The report we are working on is not specifically meant as an input for the ccNSO PDP but as a response to the Board, and I wonder about the wisdom of having it stand in the role of comment to the ccNSO PDP. The GNSO Council could certainly submit something specific in comment if we thought that was appropriate, though it may be more effective for various members and constituencies to do so individually at this point. Once we are ready with the response to the Board, we certainly can make a copy available to Bart. Further, as I do not believe we will be ready until the meeting on 13 Feb, I think it would be asking a lot to ask him to wait for our input. Of course the sooner we publish a draft, the sooner people will have an idea of the direction of the response. That in itself may be helpful. a. On 21 Jan 2008, at 23:27, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
I can do so if the council desires. I have, however, sent in my own personal response to the ccNSO comment site (mailed before I received
the ccNSO letter), and would suggest that as co-chair of the council and chair of the group writing the response that you might be the better source of this respectful request. But, I am wiling to do so if the council so choses.
I would be more than happy to do this (as vice chair) if the Council is supportive of that idea. I think it is less important who sends it
than it is that it be sent before the end of the public comment period, which is this coming Friday, 25 January.
Thanks for giving this so much thought, Chuck. I support your proposal for moving forward. And I agree that if the IDN ccTLD string selection criteria ends up being the one quoted below, we shouldn't have too much disagreement. Robin On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Here a some of my thoughts in response to this letter as well as some suggested action items that I think should be done in the next few days.
First of all, I compliment the ccNSO on a well articulated letter with what seems to me to be a constructive tone. Second, I suggest that Avri officially support the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/ GNSO meeting in New Delhi, an idea that I believe she has already indicated support for. Third, I recommend that we use the time we have between now and New Delhi to carefully prepare for the proposed joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Regarding the latter: I believe that completion of the GNSO response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs is a key step. Ideally it would have been good to accomplish that before the end of the ccNSO public comment period on their IDN ccTLD PDP (25 January). Because that is not feasible before the New Delhi meetings, I suggest that, before 25 January, Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. [Note that we would need to act on this before the end of this current week so we will have to decide whether or not to do this via our list.] I do not think that it will be effective to engage in discussion with the ccNSO regarding the issues we are concerned about prior to the joint meeting in New Delhi. In my opinion, the chances are too high that there will be misunderstanding and even miscommunication until both Councils are face to face and that can cause more harm to the success of the joint meeting than good. As a means of getting our preparation for the joint meeting started, I identify the following points from the ccNSO letter to the Board for which I believe we need to prepare: 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days; 2) they appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised; 3) they state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO; 4) they also believe that they must be dealt with in a PDP. I provide my preliminary thinking about each of these below. 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days. The original intent of the 120 day target was to attempt to avoid any further delays in the implementation of IDN TLDs (gTLDs or cc fast track IDN TLDs). I believe that the goal of avoiding further delays remains valid and if the 120 day target is unrealistic, then it is important to begin work on the issues we raised as soon as possible with the goal of at least agreeing to some interim approach until full resolution of the issues can be completed. 2) They appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised. I believe that this may be a fundamental difference of opinion between the GNSO and ccNSO but not one that necessarily needs to be a show stopper. I think it is less important for the two SO's to come to agreement on the assumption than it is to jointly develop an interim approach as suggested in the previous item. I don't think we should spend a lot of time trying to convince them that a final policy for allocating new TLDs into GNSO and ccNSO name space has to happen before any IDN TLDs are introduced, but instead we should work together to come up with a way that our concerns can be addressed in the short term. I Therefore, I recommend that we focus our attention on coming up with some ways forward on this that satisfy our needs with regard to TLD allocation and still allow the ccNSO to deal with the bigger policy issues over a longer period of time. 3) They state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO. This is a point where I believe there is gap in understanding between the GNSO and ccNSO or at least there does not seem to be an recognition of a key point we tried to make: allocation of new TLDs into the DNS is an issue that affects both SO's and therefore must be worked by both SO's. This is an area that I think deserves caution because I think it would be counterproductive for us to give the impression that the GNSO wants to determine policy for the ccNSO so we should make it clear from the outset that that is not our intent. This is a place where an example might be helpful. Consider the case of .berlin. Should that be a GNSO or a ccNSO. It appears to me at a minimum that guidelines need to be in place before .berlin is introduce that determine what SO has policy responsibility. And any such guidelines need to be developed by both SO's because both SO's are impacted.
4) They believe that the issues the GNSO raised must be dealt with in a PDP. If this is the case, which PDP process should be used? the GNSO PDP or the ccNSO PDP? It may not matter too much provided that the PDP used allows for full participation by the other SO with regard to the TLD allocation issue. At present, there is not a joint PDP process in the ICANN Bylaws; maybe this is an idea for further development. The idea of a less formal joint working group was made to facilitate a timely response to the issues. In my opinion, waiting two years for a ccNSO PDP process doesn't work, at least not for the development of an interim approach to the broader TLD allocation issues. This seems to be a key area where the two SO's need to focus attention. In the meantime, I am confident that we can work together with the ccNSO. From what I have observed so far, the ccNSO is heading in a direction that is not far off from what we could support. In the draft issues report that the IDNC is considering, one idea under consideration for IDN ccTLD string selection is this: "the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the Territory or an abbreviation of the name of the Territory in the relevant script". Please note that this is not a final position. But if it is adopted it provides some defined limitations in terms of IDN ccTLDs and could possibly even be used in developing interim guidelines for allocation of TLDs into the two policy name spaces.o Finally, I have concerns about the following statement in the next to last paragraph of the ccNSO letter to the Board: "During the process the delegation of new TLDs would need to be suspended to ensure that TLDs are not created in circumstances that would be a breach of the policy being developed." I think we need to get clarification of this in the proposed joint meeting. Considering that the ccNSO PDP is estimated to take at least two years, this could easily be a way of delaying IDN gTLDs, depending on what it means. I am not suggesting that it was intended that way but I definitely think we need to get clarity in that regard.
In conclusion, I am proposing the following action times, the first two of which need to happen in the next four days (NLT 25 Jan.): Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP. To facilitate moving forward on the above so that we can meet the time constraints, please comment on the Council list right away.
Chuck
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner- council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:30 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Importance: High
Forwarded with permission
a.
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00
Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Peter and Paul, Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience. Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi. Kind Regards, Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
IP JUSTICE Robin Gross, Executive Director 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin@ipjustice.org
I also support your proposal, Chuck, and agree with both you and Robin w/r/t IDN ccTLD string criteria. I did read the "delegation suspension" bullet to apply to IDN gTLDs. K ________________________________ From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Robin Gross Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:41 PM To: Chuck Gomes; Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Thanks for giving this so much thought, Chuck. I support your proposal for moving forward. And I agree that if the IDN ccTLD string selection criteria ends up being the one quoted below, we shouldn't have too much disagreement. Robin On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote: Here a some of my thoughts in response to this letter as well as some suggested action items that I think should be done in the next few days. First of all, I compliment the ccNSO on a well articulated letter with what seems to me to be a constructive tone. Second, I suggest that Avri officially support the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi, an idea that I believe she has already indicated support for. Third, I recommend that we use the time we have between now and New Delhi to carefully prepare for the proposed joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Regarding the latter: * I believe that completion of the GNSO response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs is a key step. Ideally it would have been good to accomplish that before the end of the ccNSO public comment period on their IDN ccTLD PDP (25 January). Because that is not feasible before the New Delhi meetings, I suggest that, before 25 January, Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. [Note that we would need to act on this before the end of this current week so we will have to decide whether or not to do this via our list.] * I do not think that it will be effective to engage in discussion with the ccNSO regarding the issues we are concerned about prior to the joint meeting in New Delhi. In my opinion, the chances are too high that there will be misunderstanding and even miscommunication until both Councils are face to face and that can cause more harm to the success of the joint meeting than good. * As a means of getting our preparation for the joint meeting started, I identify the following points from the ccNSO letter to the Board for which I believe we need to prepare: 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days; 2) they appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised; 3) they state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO; 4) they also believe that they must be dealt with in a PDP. I provide my preliminary thinking about each of these below. 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days. * The original intent of the 120 day target was to attempt to avoid any further delays in the implementation of IDN TLDs (gTLDs or cc fast track IDN TLDs). * I believe that the goal of avoiding further delays remains valid and if the 120 day target is unrealistic, then it is important to begin work on the issues we raised as soon as possible with the goal of at least agreeing to some interim approach until full resolution of the issues can be completed. 2) They appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised. * I believe that this may be a fundamental difference of opinion between the GNSO and ccNSO but not one that necessarily needs to be a show stopper. I think it is less important for the two SO's to come to agreement on the assumption than it is to jointly develop an interim approach as suggested in the previous item. * I don't think we should spend a lot of time trying to convince them that a final policy for allocating new TLDs into GNSO and ccNSO name space has to happen before any IDN TLDs are introduced, but instead we should work together to come up with a way that our concerns can be addressed in the short term. I Therefore, I recommend that we focus our attention on coming up with some ways forward on this that satisfy our needs with regard to TLD allocation and still allow the ccNSO to deal with the bigger policy issues over a longer period of time. 3) They state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO. * This is a point where I believe there is gap in understanding between the GNSO and ccNSO or at least there does not seem to be an recognition of a key point we tried to make: allocation of new TLDs into the DNS is an issue that affects both SO's and therefore must be worked by both SO's. * This is an area that I think deserves caution because I think it would be counterproductive for us to give the impression that the GNSO wants to determine policy for the ccNSO so we should make it clear from the outset that that is not our intent. * This is a place where an example might be helpful. Consider the case of .berlin. Should that be a GNSO or a ccNSO. It appears to me at a minimum that guidelines need to be in place before .berlin is introduce that determine what SO has policy responsibility. And any such guidelines need to be developed by both SO's because both SO's are impacted. 4) They believe that the issues the GNSO raised must be dealt with in a PDP. * If this is the case, which PDP process should be used? the GNSO PDP or the ccNSO PDP? It may not matter too much provided that the PDP used allows for full participation by the other SO with regard to the TLD allocation issue. * At present, there is not a joint PDP process in the ICANN Bylaws; maybe this is an idea for further development. * The idea of a less formal joint working group was made to facilitate a timely response to the issues. In my opinion, waiting two years for a ccNSO PDP process doesn't work, at least not for the development of an interim approach to the broader TLD allocation issues. This seems to be a key area where the two SO's need to focus attention. * In the meantime, I am confident that we can work together with the ccNSO. From what I have observed so far, the ccNSO is heading in a direction that is not far off from what we could support. In the draft issues report that the IDNC is considering, one idea under consideration for IDN ccTLD string selection is this: "the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the Territory or an abbreviation of the name of the Territory in the relevant script". Please note that this is not a final position. But if it is adopted it provides some defined limitations in terms of IDN ccTLDs and could possibly even be used in developing interim guidelines for allocation of TLDs into the two policy name spaces.o Finally, I have concerns about the following statement in the next to last paragraph of the ccNSO letter to the Board: "During the process the delegation of new TLDs would need to be suspended to ensure that TLDs are not created in circumstances that would be a breach of the policy being developed." I think we need to get clarification of this in the proposed joint meeting. Considering that the ccNSO PDP is estimated to take at least two years, this could easily be a way of delaying IDN gTLDs, depending on what it means. I am not suggesting that it was intended that way but I definitely think we need to get clarity in that regard. In conclusion, I am proposing the following action times, the first two of which need to happen in the next four days (NLT 25 Jan.): 1. Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. 2. Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. 3. We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP. To facilitate moving forward on the above so that we can meet the time constraints, please comment on the Council list right away. Chuck ________________________________ From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:30 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Importance: High Forwarded with permission a. Begin forwarded message: From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00 Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Peter and Paul, Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience. Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi. Kind Regards, Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email. IP JUSTICE Robin Gross, Executive Director 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin@ipjustice.org
Hi, I am not sure that it applies to IDN gTDS only. As some of the questions ask in the ccNSO/GAC questions list related t LDH ASCII TLDs, e.g. a) Should all IDN ccTLD strings be of a fixed length, for example by retaining the two-character limitation that applies to ASCII ccTLD labels, or can they be of variable length? If a variable string length is introduced for IDN ccTLDs, should it also be introduced for ASCII ccTLDs? As the last sentence indicates, there is interest in variable length LDH ASCII ccTLDs, I believe the meaning of the statement is that if the issue of apportionment is opened and the group the GNSO council is approved, then everything, include the LDG restriction to 2 letter codes, should be on the table. In that case, I believe they are arguing that no new gTLDs of any sort should go forward until all issues were resolved. I think the reference to TLD as opposed to IDN TLD is deliberate and not accidental: the rest f the note carefully discusses IDN TLDs. Only in this section is the reference to IDN dropped and the scope of the issue escalated. That, at least is my understanding of their position. a. On 22 Jan 2008, at 02:49, Rosette, Kristina wrote:
I also support your proposal, Chuck, and agree with both you and Robin w/r/t IDN ccTLD string criteria. I did read the "delegation suspension" bullet to apply to IDN gTLDs.
K From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Robin Gross Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:41 PM To: Chuck Gomes; Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Thanks for giving this so much thought, Chuck. I support your proposal for moving forward. And I agree that if the IDN ccTLD string selection criteria ends up being the one quoted below, we shouldn't have too much disagreement.
Robin
On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Here a some of my thoughts in response to this letter as well as some suggested action items that I think should be done in the next few days.
First of all, I compliment the ccNSO on a well articulated letter with what seems to me to be a constructive tone. Second, I suggest that Avri officially support the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/ GNSO meeting in New Delhi, an idea that I believe she has already indicated support for. Third, I recommend that we use the time we have between now and New Delhi to carefully prepare for the proposed joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Regarding the latter: • I believe that completion of the GNSO response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs is a key step. Ideally it would have been good to accomplish that before the end of the ccNSO public comment period on their IDN ccTLD PDP (25 January). Because that is not feasible before the New Delhi meetings, I suggest that, before 25 January, Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. [Note that we would need to act on this before the end of this current week so we will have to decide whether or not to do this via our list.] • I do not think that it will be effective to engage in discussion with the ccNSO regarding the issues we are concerned about prior to the joint meeting in New Delhi. In my opinion, the chances are too high that there will be misunderstanding and even miscommunication until both Councils are face to face and that can cause more harm to the success of the joint meeting than good. • As a means of getting our preparation for the joint meeting started, I identify the following points from the ccNSO letter to the Board for which I believe we need to prepare: 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days; 2) they appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised; 3) they state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO; 4) they also believe that they must be dealt with in a PDP. I provide my preliminary thinking about each of these below. 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days. • The original intent of the 120 day target was to attempt to avoid any further delays in the implementation of IDN TLDs (gTLDs or cc fast track IDN TLDs). • I believe that the goal of avoiding further delays remains valid and if the 120 day target is unrealistic, then it is important to begin work on the issues we raised as soon as possible with the goal of at least agreeing to some interim approach until full resolution of the issues can be completed. 2) They appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised. • I believe that this may be a fundamental difference of opinion between the GNSO and ccNSO but not one that necessarily needs to be a show stopper. I think it is less important for the two SO's to come to agreement on the assumption than it is to jointly develop an interim approach as suggested in the previous item. • I don't think we should spend a lot of time trying to convince them that a final policy for allocating new TLDs into GNSO and ccNSO name space has to happen before any IDN TLDs are introduced, but instead we should work together to come up with a way that our concerns can be addressed in the short term. I Therefore, I recommend that we focus our attention on coming up with some ways forward on this that satisfy our needs with regard to TLD allocation and still allow the ccNSO to deal with the bigger policy issues over a longer period of time. 3) They state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO. • This is a point where I believe there is gap in understanding between the GNSO and ccNSO or at least there does not seem to be an recognition of a key point we tried to make: allocation of new TLDs into the DNS is an issue that affects both SO's and therefore must be worked by both SO's. • This is an area that I think deserves caution because I think it would be counterproductive for us to give the impression that the GNSO wants to determine policy for the ccNSO so we should make it clear from the outset that that is not our intent. • This is a place where an example might be helpful. Consider the case of .berlin. Should that be a GNSO or a ccNSO. It appears to me at a minimum that guidelines need to be in place before .berlin is introduce that determine what SO has policy responsibility. And any such guidelines need to be developed by both SO's because both SO's are impacted.
4) They believe that the issues the GNSO raised must be dealt with in a PDP. • If this is the case, which PDP process should be used? the GNSO PDP or the ccNSO PDP? It may not matter too much provided that the PDP used allows for full participation by the other SO with regard to the TLD allocation issue. • At present, there is not a joint PDP process in the ICANN Bylaws; maybe this is an idea for further development. • The idea of a less formal joint working group was made to facilitate a timely response to the issues. In my opinion, waiting two years for a ccNSO PDP process doesn't work, at least not for the development of an interim approach to the broader TLD allocation issues. This seems to be a key area where the two SO's need to focus attention. • In the meantime, I am confident that we can work together with the ccNSO. From what I have observed so far, the ccNSO is heading in a direction that is not far off from what we could support. In the draft issues report that the IDNC is considering, one idea under consideration for IDN ccTLD string selection is this: "the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the Territory or an abbreviation of the name of the Territory in the relevant script". Please note that this is not a final position. But if it is adopted it provides some defined limitations in terms of IDN ccTLDs and could possibly even be used in developing interim guidelines for allocation of TLDs into the two policy name spaces.o Finally, I have concerns about the following statement in the next to last paragraph of the ccNSO letter to the Board: "During the process the delegation of new TLDs would need to be suspended to ensure that TLDs are not created in circumstances that would be a breach of the policy being developed." I think we need to get clarification of this in the proposed joint meeting. Considering that the ccNSO PDP is estimated to take at least two years, this could easily be a way of delaying IDN gTLDs, depending on what it means. I am not suggesting that it was intended that way but I definitely think we need to get clarity in that regard.
In conclusion, I am proposing the following action times, the first two of which need to happen in the next four days (NLT 25 Jan.): • Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. • Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. • We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP. To facilitate moving forward on the above so that we can meet the time constraints, please comment on the Council list right away.
Chuck
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:30 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Importance: High
Forwarded with permission
a.
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00
Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Peter and Paul, Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience. Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi. Kind Regards, Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
IP JUSTICE Robin Gross, Executive Director 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin@ipjustice.org
Hi, before we get into guessing what they might have meant we should wait until we meet them in Delhi. Best, tom -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Avri Doria Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2008 07:22 An: Council GNSO Betreff: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Hi, I am not sure that it applies to IDN gTDS only. As some of the questions ask in the ccNSO/GAC questions list related t LDH ASCII TLDs, e.g. a) Should all IDN ccTLD strings be of a fixed length, for example by retaining the two-character limitation that applies to ASCII ccTLD labels, or can they be of variable length? If a variable string length is introduced for IDN ccTLDs, should it also be introduced for ASCII ccTLDs? As the last sentence indicates, there is interest in variable length LDH ASCII ccTLDs, I believe the meaning of the statement is that if the issue of apportionment is opened and the group the GNSO council is approved, then everything, include the LDG restriction to 2 letter codes, should be on the table. In that case, I believe they are arguing that no new gTLDs of any sort should go forward until all issues were resolved. I think the reference to TLD as opposed to IDN TLD is deliberate and not accidental: the rest f the note carefully discusses IDN TLDs. Only in this section is the reference to IDN dropped and the scope of the issue escalated. That, at least is my understanding of their position. a. On 22 Jan 2008, at 02:49, Rosette, Kristina wrote:
I also support your proposal, Chuck, and agree with both you and Robin w/r/t IDN ccTLD string criteria. I did read the "delegation suspension" bullet to apply to IDN gTLDs.
K From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Robin Gross Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:41 PM To: Chuck Gomes; Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Thanks for giving this so much thought, Chuck. I support your proposal for moving forward. And I agree that if the IDN ccTLD string selection criteria ends up being the one quoted below, we shouldn't have too much disagreement.
Robin
On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Here a some of my thoughts in response to this letter as well as some suggested action items that I think should be done in the next few days.
First of all, I compliment the ccNSO on a well articulated letter with what seems to me to be a constructive tone. Second, I suggest that Avri officially support the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/ GNSO meeting in New Delhi, an idea that I believe she has already indicated support for. Third, I recommend that we use the time we have between now and New Delhi to carefully prepare for the proposed joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Regarding the latter: I believe that completion of the GNSO response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs is a key step. Ideally it would have been good to accomplish that before the end of the ccNSO public comment period on their IDN ccTLD PDP (25 January). Because that is not feasible before the New Delhi meetings, I suggest that, before 25 January, Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. [Note that we would need to act on this before the end of this current week so we will have to decide whether or not to do this via our list.] I do not think that it will be effective to engage in discussion with the ccNSO regarding the issues we are concerned about prior to the joint meeting in New Delhi. In my opinion, the chances are too high that there will be misunderstanding and even miscommunication until both Councils are face to face and that can cause more harm to the success of the joint meeting than good. As a means of getting our preparation for the joint meeting started, I identify the following points from the ccNSO letter to the Board for which I believe we need to prepare: 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days; 2) they appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised; 3) they state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO; 4) they also believe that they must be dealt with in a PDP. I provide my preliminary thinking about each of these below. 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days. The original intent of the 120 day target was to attempt to avoid any further delays in the implementation of IDN TLDs (gTLDs or cc fast track IDN TLDs). I believe that the goal of avoiding further delays remains valid and if the 120 day target is unrealistic, then it is important to begin work on the issues we raised as soon as possible with the goal of at least agreeing to some interim approach until full resolution of the issues can be completed. 2) They appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised. I believe that this may be a fundamental difference of opinion between the GNSO and ccNSO but not one that necessarily needs to be a show stopper. I think it is less important for the two SO's to come to agreement on the assumption than it is to jointly develop an interim approach as suggested in the previous item. I don't think we should spend a lot of time trying to convince them that a final policy for allocating new TLDs into GNSO and ccNSO name space has to happen before any IDN TLDs are introduced, but instead we should work together to come up with a way that our concerns can be addressed in the short term. I Therefore, I recommend that we focus our attention on coming up with some ways forward on this that satisfy our needs with regard to TLD allocation and still allow the ccNSO to deal with the bigger policy issues over a longer period of time. 3) They state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO. This is a point where I believe there is gap in understanding between the GNSO and ccNSO or at least there does not seem to be an recognition of a key point we tried to make: allocation of new TLDs into the DNS is an issue that affects both SO's and therefore must be worked by both SO's. This is an area that I think deserves caution because I think it would be counterproductive for us to give the impression that the GNSO wants to determine policy for the ccNSO so we should make it clear from the outset that that is not our intent. This is a place where an example might be helpful. Consider the case of .berlin. Should that be a GNSO or a ccNSO. It appears to me at a minimum that guidelines need to be in place before .berlin is introduce that determine what SO has policy responsibility. And any such guidelines need to be developed by both SO's because both SO's are impacted.
4) They believe that the issues the GNSO raised must be dealt with in a PDP. If this is the case, which PDP process should be used? the GNSO PDP or the ccNSO PDP? It may not matter too much provided that the PDP used allows for full participation by the other SO with regard to the TLD allocation issue. At present, there is not a joint PDP process in the ICANN Bylaws; maybe this is an idea for further development. The idea of a less formal joint working group was made to facilitate a timely response to the issues. In my opinion, waiting two years for a ccNSO PDP process doesn't work, at least not for the development of an interim approach to the broader TLD allocation issues. This seems to be a key area where the two SO's need to focus attention. In the meantime, I am confident that we can work together with the ccNSO. From what I have observed so far, the ccNSO is heading in a direction that is not far off from what we could support. In the draft issues report that the IDNC is considering, one idea under consideration for IDN ccTLD string selection is this: "the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the Territory or an abbreviation of the name of the Territory in the relevant script". Please note that this is not a final position. But if it is adopted it provides some defined limitations in terms of IDN ccTLDs and could possibly even be used in developing interim guidelines for allocation of TLDs into the two policy name spaces.o Finally, I have concerns about the following statement in the next to last paragraph of the ccNSO letter to the Board: "During the process the delegation of new TLDs would need to be suspended to ensure that TLDs are not created in circumstances that would be a breach of the policy being developed." I think we need to get clarification of this in the proposed joint meeting. Considering that the ccNSO PDP is estimated to take at least two years, this could easily be a way of delaying IDN gTLDs, depending on what it means. I am not suggesting that it was intended that way but I definitely think we need to get clarity in that regard.
In conclusion, I am proposing the following action times, the first two of which need to happen in the next four days (NLT 25 Jan.): Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP. To facilitate moving forward on the above so that we can meet the time constraints, please comment on the Council list right away.
Chuck
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:30 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Importance: High
Forwarded with permission
a.
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00
Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Peter and Paul, Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience. Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi. Kind Regards, Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
IP JUSTICE Robin Gross, Executive Director 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin@ipjustice.org
Tom makes a very good point. As I said in my message, we definitely need clarification of this statement, but speculation on our part about what was intended in the statement could do more harm than good leading up to the joint meeting. Let's make sure that we ask for clarification in the meeting. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Keller Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:17 AM To: 'Avri Doria'; 'Council GNSO' Subject: AW: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Hi, before we get into guessing what they might have meant we should wait until we meet them in Delhi. Best, tom -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Avri Doria Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2008 07:22 An: Council GNSO Betreff: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Hi, I am not sure that it applies to IDN gTDS only. As some of the questions ask in the ccNSO/GAC questions list related t LDH ASCII TLDs, e.g. a) Should all IDN ccTLD strings be of a fixed length, for example by retaining the two-character limitation that applies to ASCII ccTLD labels, or can they be of variable length? If a variable string length is introduced for IDN ccTLDs, should it also be introduced for ASCII ccTLDs? As the last sentence indicates, there is interest in variable length LDH ASCII ccTLDs, I believe the meaning of the statement is that if the issue of apportionment is opened and the group the GNSO council is approved, then everything, include the LDG restriction to 2 letter codes, should be on the table. In that case, I believe they are arguing that no new gTLDs of any sort should go forward until all issues were resolved. I think the reference to TLD as opposed to IDN TLD is deliberate and not accidental: the rest f the note carefully discusses IDN TLDs. Only in this section is the reference to IDN dropped and the scope of the issue escalated. That, at least is my understanding of their position. a. On 22 Jan 2008, at 02:49, Rosette, Kristina wrote:
I also support your proposal, Chuck, and agree with both you and Robin w/r/t IDN ccTLD string criteria. I did read the "delegation suspension" bullet to apply to IDN gTLDs.
K From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Robin Gross Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 7:41 PM To: Chuck Gomes; Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Thanks for giving this so much thought, Chuck. I support your proposal for moving forward. And I agree that if the IDN ccTLD string selection criteria ends up being the one quoted below, we shouldn't have too much disagreement.
Robin
On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Here a some of my thoughts in response to this letter as well as some suggested action items that I think should be done in the next few days.
First of all, I compliment the ccNSO on a well articulated letter with what seems to me to be a constructive tone. Second, I suggest that Avri officially support the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/ GNSO meeting in New Delhi, an idea that I believe she has already indicated support for. Third, I recommend that we use the time we have between now and New Delhi to carefully prepare for the proposed joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. Regarding the latter: * I believe that completion of the GNSO response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs is a key step. Ideally it would have been good to accomplish that before the end of the ccNSO public comment period on their IDN ccTLD PDP (25 January). Because that is not feasible before the New Delhi meetings, I suggest that, before 25 January, Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. [Note that we would need to act on this before the end of this current week so we will have to decide whether or not to do this via our list.] * I do not think that it will be effective to engage in discussion with the ccNSO regarding the issues we are concerned about prior to the joint meeting in New Delhi. In my opinion, the chances are too high that there will be misunderstanding and even miscommunication until both Councils are face to face and that can cause more harm to the success of the joint meeting than good. * As a means of getting our preparation for the joint meeting started, I identify the following points from the ccNSO letter to the Board for which I believe we need to prepare: 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days; 2) they appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised; 3) they state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO; 4) they also believe that they must be dealt with in a PDP. I provide my preliminary thinking about each of these below. 1) The ccNSO clearly believes that the issues we raised will take much longer than 120 days. * The original intent of the 120 day target was to attempt to avoid any further delays in the implementation of IDN TLDs (gTLDs or cc fast track IDN TLDs). * I believe that the goal of avoiding further delays remains valid and if the 120 day target is unrealistic, then it is important to begin work on the issues we raised as soon as possible with the goal of at least agreeing to some interim approach until full resolution of the issues can be completed. 2) They appear to assume that it is possible to introduce fast tract IDN ccTLDs before any resolution of the issues we raised. * I believe that this may be a fundamental difference of opinion between the GNSO and ccNSO but not one that necessarily needs to be a show stopper. I think it is less important for the two SO's to come to agreement on the assumption than it is to jointly develop an interim approach as suggested in the previous item. * I don't think we should spend a lot of time trying to convince them that a final policy for allocating new TLDs into GNSO and ccNSO name space has to happen before any IDN TLDs are introduced, but instead we should work together to come up with a way that our concerns can be addressed in the short term. I Therefore, I recommend that we focus our attention on coming up with some ways forward on this that satisfy our needs with regard to TLD allocation and still allow the ccNSO to deal with the bigger policy issues over a longer period of time. 3) They state that as far as the issues relate to IDN ccTLDs, they should be the responsibility of the ccNSO. * This is a point where I believe there is gap in understanding between the GNSO and ccNSO or at least there does not seem to be an recognition of a key point we tried to make: allocation of new TLDs into the DNS is an issue that affects both SO's and therefore must be worked by both SO's. * This is an area that I think deserves caution because I think it would be counterproductive for us to give the impression that the GNSO wants to determine policy for the ccNSO so we should make it clear from the outset that that is not our intent. * This is a place where an example might be helpful. Consider the case of .berlin. Should that be a GNSO or a ccNSO. It appears to me at a minimum that guidelines need to be in place before .berlin is introduce that determine what SO has policy responsibility. And any such guidelines need to be developed by both SO's because both SO's are impacted.
4) They believe that the issues the GNSO raised must be dealt with in a PDP. * If this is the case, which PDP process should be used? the GNSO PDP or the ccNSO PDP? It may not matter too much provided that the PDP used allows for full participation by the other SO with regard to the TLD allocation issue. * At present, there is not a joint PDP process in the ICANN Bylaws; maybe this is an idea for further development. * The idea of a less formal joint working group was made to facilitate a timely response to the issues. In my opinion, waiting two years for a ccNSO PDP process doesn't work, at least not for the development of an interim approach to the broader TLD allocation issues. This seems to be a key area where the two SO's need to focus attention. * In the meantime, I am confident that we can work together with the ccNSO. From what I have observed so far, the ccNSO is heading in a direction that is not far off from what we could support. In the draft issues report that the IDNC is considering, one idea under consideration for IDN ccTLD string selection is this: "the string must be a meaningful representation of the name of the Territory or an abbreviation of the name of the Territory in the relevant script". Please note that this is not a final position. But if it is adopted it provides some defined limitations in terms of IDN ccTLDs and could possibly even be used in developing interim guidelines for allocation of TLDs into the two policy name spaces.o Finally, I have concerns about the following statement in the next to last paragraph of the ccNSO letter to the Board: "During the process the delegation of new TLDs would need to be suspended to ensure that TLDs are not created in circumstances that would be a breach of the policy being developed." I think we need to get clarification of this in the proposed joint meeting. Considering that the ccNSO PDP is estimated to take at least two years, this could easily be a way of delaying IDN gTLDs, depending on what it means. I am not suggesting that it was intended that way but I definitely think we need to get clarity in that regard.
In conclusion, I am proposing the following action times, the first two of which need to happen in the next four days (NLT 25 Jan.): * Avri send a letter to Chris Dispain officially supporting the recommendation for a joint ccNSO/GNSO meeting in New Delhi. * Avri send a letter to the ccNSO and to their comment site informing them that our response to the ccNSO/GAC Issues Paper on IDN ccTLDs (as requested by the Board) will not be completed until New Delhi and we respectfully request that our input be considered in the PDP. * We initiate a planning process for the joint meeting in New Delhi ASAP. To facilitate moving forward on the above so that we can meet the time constraints, please comment on the Council list right away.
Chuck
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org ] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 6:30 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: [council] Fwd: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution Importance: High
Forwarded with permission
a.
Begin forwarded message:
From: "Chris Disspain" Date: 21 January 2008 12:11:37 GMT+01:00
Subject: ccNSO response to GNSO resolution
Peter and Paul, Attached is the ccNSO response to the GNSO resolution of 3 January 2008. Please forward this letter to the ICANN Board list at your earliest convenience. Pursuant to the letter I shall be formally writing to Avri Doria tomorrow to invite the GNSO to a joint meeting in New Delhi. Kind Regards, Chris Disspain CEO - auDA Australia's Domain Name Administrator ceo@auda.org.au www.auda.org.au Important Notice - This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. Please consider the environment before printing this email.
IP JUSTICE Robin Gross, Executive Director 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin@ipjustice.org
participants (7)
-
Avri Doria -
Avri Doria -
Gomes, Chuck -
Olof Nordling -
Robin Gross -
Rosette, Kristina -
Thomas Keller