Hi, Not that it matters, but I think the morning gripe session is a really bad idea, and if there was to be a vote on it, and if I was voting, I would vote against it. While I was psychological counselor-in-training i participated in several such events. Usually they were done at the beginning of weekend or longer of bonding exercises, where first you tear down the boundaries between people and get into a little from-the-gut truth about your feelings for each other and the [company, organization, environment, board ...). All good stuff to do, but stuff that leaves most people reeling, at least initially. Then you take the people through various exercises to help them get to know and trust each other. At the end of weekend of trauma, stress, laughter, revelation and tears, you get to a point where the bonding has happened and you have a group who know each other better and have a reason to trust. Mostly it works, sometimes it doesn't. In this case, there will an hour, maybe two, where every one re- inroduces them selves and lays out their favorite gripe or two. And then we all go away and do consensus building work for the rest of day, having ripped little shreds out of each other without any time to rebuild. As I said, I think it is a terrible idea. I could be wrong, but if was hiring myself out a professional counselor (which theoretically I could do - though I don't have license which would allow me to do third party billing to your insurance companies yet), this is one gig I would not take and would strongly advise against. As normal, I have stated my opinion, won't advocate for that opinion, and assuming I am still part of council either as a member or as chair will participate in to the best of abilities. cheers, a. On 16 Sep 2009, at 22:27, Adrian Kinderis wrote:

I also agree with Kristina’s conditions.

I would also like to include Constituency officers as observers for the formal session. They could listen to the discussions but if they had anything to contribute would have to do so through their Councillors.

Adrian Kinderis

From: Stéphane Van Gelder [mailto:stephane.vangelder@indom.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 2:45 AM To: Rosette, Kristina; Adrian Kinderis; council@gnso.icann.org Subject: Re: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet?

I fully support the initiative (obviously). I agree with Kristina that the morning session should not be recorded if we want people to be honest. I am OK with keeping these as closed Council sessions. The idea here is to get some friendly interaction and discussion going within the Council. I do however believe that it may be good to allow constituency officers as well.

Stéphane

Le 16/09/09 15:23, « Rosette, Kristina » <krosette@cov.com> a écrit :

I would support both sessions on the condition that both are closed and participation is limited to Councilors and relevant staff. (I wouldn't necessarily object to including Constituency officers.)

I also believe the morning session should be neither recorded nor transcribed. Neither is conducive to the level of candor that the productivity of the session requires.

Having the sessions be open seems likely to decrease their utility.

Kristina Rosette Covington & Burling LLP 1201 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20004-2401 voice: 202-662-5173 direct fax: 202-778-5173 main fax: 202-662-6291 e-mail: krosette@cov.com

This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you for your cooperation.

------------------------- Sent from my Wireless Handheld

From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org <owner-council@gnso.icann.org> To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Sent: Wed Sep 16 03:47:01 2009 Subject: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet?

All,

As most of you will remember, on behalf of the registrars, I suggested on the recent GNSO Council call that we should try to create a number (two) fora in which we could get together and interact on a social and informal level, especially in light of the introduction of new Councillors.

I am not sure how much detail is required but here are my previous suggestions that I sent Glen previously.

I think we should do two events.

The first would be to create an agenda item on the Saturday morning where we could simply go around the room and introduce ourselves and discuss openly any areas of concern - specifically to do with the Council itself (points of view, voting etc). I know the registrars for example would say that they are a little sick and tired of being pigeonholed simply because they have commercial interests. I'm sure other groups would have pet hates too.

Secondly I think we should have a social gathering on the Saturday evening (perhaps just a few pre-dinner drinks if the budget doesn't allow too much) where GNSO Councillors both new and old and ICANN staff (those that interact regularly with the Council perhaps) can gather once again for the purpose of getting to know new members better and, more importantly, for each Constituency (Stakeholder Group) be able to convey their distinct and perhaps unique perspectives on the Council and the issues that are before us. That said, it is a social event. It is more about getting to know the personalities that make up the GNSO Council.

I believe that we would need a show of support for these ideas in order for this to happen.

Can I please get your ideas/ thoughts/ suggestions or support to the list please?

Thanks.

Adrian Kinderis

This is a good suggestion, and Kristina has added a suitable safeguard. As a veteran of ICANN events, I would mention that in the initial years when the GNSO was known as the DNSO, it was customary for the Council members to share a dinner and thus have an opportunity for informal conversation. Tony Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: Zahid Jamil To: Rosette, Kristina ; owner-council@gnso.icann.org ; adrian@ausregistry.com.au ; council@gnso.icann.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet? Agreed. Sincerely, Zahid Jamil Barrister-at-law Jamil & Jamil Barristers-at-law 219-221 Central Hotel Annexe Merewether Road, Karachi. Pakistan Cell: +923008238230 Tel: +92 21 5680760 / 5685276 / 5655025 Fax: +92 21 5655026 www.jamilandjamil.com *** This Message Has Been Sent Using BlackBerry Internet Service from Mobilink *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Rosette, Kristina" <krosette@cov.com> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:23:58 -0400 To: <adrian@ausregistry.com.au>; <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet? I would support both sessions on the condition that both are closed and participation is limited to Councilors and relevant staff. (I wouldn't necessarily object to including Constituency officers.) I also believe the morning session should be neither recorded nor transcribed. Neither is conducive to the level of candor that the productivity of the session requires. Having the sessions be open seems likely to decrease their utility. Kristina Rosette Covington & Burling LLP 1201 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20004-2401 voice: 202-662-5173 direct fax: 202-778-5173 main fax: 202-662-6291 e-mail: krosette@cov.com This message is from a law firm and may contain information that is confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately advise the sender by reply e-mail that this message has been inadvertently transmitted to you and delete this e-mail from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. ------------------------- Sent from my Wireless Handheld ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org <owner-council@gnso.icann.org> To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Sent: Wed Sep 16 03:47:01 2009 Subject: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet? All, As most of you will remember, on behalf of the registrars, I suggested on the recent GNSO Council call that we should try to create a number (two) fora in which we could get together and interact on a social and informal level, especially in light of the introduction of new Councillors. I am not sure how much detail is required but here are my previous suggestions that I sent Glen previously. I think we should do two events. The first would be to create an agenda item on the Saturday morning where we could simply go around the room and introduce ourselves and discuss openly any areas of concern - specifically to do with the Council itself (points of view, voting etc). I know the registrars for example would say that they are a little sick and tired of being pigeonholed simply because they have commercial interests. I'm sure other groups would have pet hates too. Secondly I think we should have a social gathering on the Saturday evening (perhaps just a few pre-dinner drinks if the budget doesn't allow too much) where GNSO Councillors both new and old and ICANN staff (those that interact regularly with the Council perhaps) can gather once again for the purpose of getting to know new members better and, more importantly, for each Constituency (Stakeholder Group) be able to convey their distinct and perhaps unique perspectives on the Council and the issues that are before us. That said, it is a social event. It is more about getting to know the personalities that make up the GNSO Council. I believe that we would need a show of support for these ideas in order for this to happen. Can I please get your ideas/ thoughts/ suggestions or support to the list please? Thanks. Adrian Kinderis

And dinner with informal conversation whilst glossing over and ignoring some major crevices that are appearing in relationships in the GNSO Council between Councillors seems pointless... I don't think this is a matter for "tearing shreds of each other". I think it is a matter of communicating our concerns. I believe, with the right governance of the Chair, and strict controls it can be a productive time. I'd happily put my hand up to help run it. Adrian Kinderis -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 7:34 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet? On 16 Sep 2009, at 22:20, Anthony Harris wrote:

it was customary for the Council members to share a dinner and thus have an opportunity for informal conversation.

Ps. I am very much in support of a dinner with informal conversation. I think that is a wonderful idea. the council should do those regularly. a.

This all started as an idea from the registrars to have an informal session at some point during our first Seoul work day just to let people talk freely. No set agenda. No pressure. No formalism. If people want to vent, let them. I'm sure we're all civilised enough and all get on well enough outside of the Council (I've certainly enjoyed a few after-hour drinks with some of my fellow Councillors in the past and it's never been a problem) not to jump at each others' throats the minute the mikes are switched off and the scribes ushered out the room. There was also an idea to have a collective drink afterwards. Just a friendly little get-together that the Council might enjoy. Frankly, if organising a drinks session and an informal conversation within the GNSO Council is this complicated, I don't see how we can be expected to make any real progress on important issues. Sorry about the rant. I guess I've already used up my vent time from the Saturday session now and will just have to sit quietly through that one :) Stéphane Le 17/09/09 00:15, « Gomes, Chuck » <cgomes@verisign.com> a écrit :

A dinner might be okay, but with so many people it would be hard to seat in such a way that everyone could participate in the same conversion. We might be able to arrange workable seating if we used one of our weekend rooms, but we are going to have a lot of buffets during the week, so it would be nice if we could make it a little different menu-wise.

Chuck

...

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Kinderis Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:40 PM To: Avri Doria; Council GNSO Subject: RE: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet?

And dinner with informal conversation whilst glossing over and ignoring some major crevices that are appearing in relationships in the GNSO Council between Councillors seems pointless...

I don't think this is a matter for "tearing shreds of each other". I think it is a matter of communicating our concerns.

I believe, with the right governance of the Chair, and strict controls it can be a productive time.

I'd happily put my hand up to help run it.

Adrian Kinderis

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 7:34 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet?

On 16 Sep 2009, at 22:20, Anthony Harris wrote:

...

it was customary for the Council members to share a dinner and thus have an opportunity for informal conversation.

Ps. I am very much in support of a dinner with informal conversation. I think that is a wonderful idea. the council should do those regularly.

a.

Hi, I'm of course fine with the dinner, but like Avri and Mary question the advisability of starting the week with an airing of grievances (or as Adrian put it, pet hates). While such a ritual is mandatory for kicking off a Festivus (who'd bring the pole?), for a GNSO meeting it strikes me as singularly awful institutional design, particularly now. It will foul the air, not clear it, and set us off on the wrong course with conflicts foremost in our minds at a meeting when we're supposedly launching a new and improved collaboration people worked long and hard to devise. And what a delightful way to welcome the new councilors, sure to inspire---it'll be like joining a meeting of the Human Rights Council, but without the decorum. Scholars and practitioners of healthy negotiations and collaborations would advise precisely the opposite model, i.e. starting with the low hanging fruit of shared concerns and objectives, building trust and confidence, and then moving on to the tough stuff. But of course, that presumes the objective is to get to yes, rather than to settle scores. In any event, if this is what everyone really wants to do, ok we'll play. NCUC has plenty of grievances, probably more than most, and if required we can rise to the occasion. In this context, I would agree with all those who favor inclusion of constituency officers. I am however implacably opposed to doing this off the record. If people have something to say, let's do it in a manner that is transparent and accountable to our constituencies, the larger ICANN "community," and the real world beyond. Kicking off the era of the new GNSO, post-NTIA decision, with a closed conclave would be rather insular signaling. Greetings from a very collegial and multistakeholder IGF meeting, where inter alia some people are discussing the possible creation of a new dynamic coalition on ICANN accountability. Bill On Sep 17, 2009, at 12:24 AM, Mary Wong wrote:

A social event versus a more formal discussion serve different purposes. I'd definitely support the former, and could be persuaded to support the latter.

The social (informal) event would be particularly good for introducing newbies and allowing everyone to get to know one another in a more relaxed environment, especially if we've just spent hours (or days) locked in discussion/negotiation/what have you. In contrast, the more structured "let me get this issue off my chest" discussion serves to let off steam of a different kind. This means that having it first thing on Saturday morning is likely to intimidate newbies and, possibly, cloud the atmosphere for the rest of the day/weekend.

Is there some way to have the formal discussion under some form of agreed controls (as suggested by Adrian) and other than as the first agenda item for the weekend?

My two cents', Mary

Mary W S Wong Professor of Law Franklin Pierce Law Center Two White Street Concord, NH 03301 USA Email: mwong@piercelaw.edu Phone: 1-603-513-5143 Webpage: http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584

...

...

...

Adrian Kinderis <adrian@ausregistry.com.au> 9/16/2009 5:39 PM >>>

And dinner with informal conversation whilst glossing over and ignoring some major crevices that are appearing in relationships in the GNSO Council between Councillors seems pointless...

I don't think this is a matter for "tearing shreds of each other". I think it is a matter of communicating our concerns.

I believe, with the right governance of the Chair, and strict controls it can be a productive time.

I'd happily put my hand up to help run it.

Adrian Kinderis

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner- council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 7:34 AM To: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] GNSO Council meet and greet?

On 16 Sep 2009, at 22:20, Anthony Harris wrote:

...

it was customary for the Council members to share a dinner and thus have an opportunity for informal conversation.

Ps. I am very much in support of a dinner with informal conversation. I think that is a wonderful idea. the council should do those regularly.

a.

*********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html ***********************************************************

Council should bear in mind that there is sometimes an inherent conflict between transparency and freedom to dialogue. For an individual, or small business there is likely to be no such conflict. For an employee of a publicly quoted company or other organisation of reputation, there is a high likelihood of this conflict. Typically an employee of such a company in the knowledge their comments may be publically archived in oral or written form will be constrained in what they are able to say by internal guidelines or practise. These guidelines will typically be established to protect the corporation from legal suit, to protect reputation or to protect the share price. Given the choice of continual checking with in-house legal counsel and silence, they may choose silence. If therefore Council has an ambition to have a frank exchange of views, separate from its central role of policy development, it should bear in mind the conflict that some Council members may be under through no fault of their own other than their choice of employer. So expression of outrage and calls of "Vive la transparence" may make good rhetoric but will lead to poorer dialogue. Philip

Hi, On the issue of holding the meet ad greet as a closed meeting: It has been the practice that if any member felt that meeting needed to be closed we would take a vote, polling each member of the council. If a majority felt the meeting needed to be closed, we closed it. We have done this on one or two occasions where we needed to speak about individuals and had privacy concerns. If some members believe this session should be closed, I recommend putting in a motion today that we can vote on next week to have this session and to have it as a closed session. Or we can postpone that until the next meeting. I have put this issue on the agenda for te upcoming meeting, but haven't given it a lot of time. I recommend we discuss the issue on the list if we need much more discussion of the divergent viewpoints. thanks a.