More important in my opinion than the size of task forces and working groups or whether people are observers or constituency reps are the following: - Making sure that as many diverse points of view are represented as possible - Ensuring that all participants are constructive - Providing effective leadership of the group - Providing sufficient staff support (administrative and policy) Also, I strongly believe that we need to move away from task forces and working groups being made up predominately of Counsel reps. That just doesn't scale. The Council should oversee each taskforce or working group and should have a few members on the group to faciliate communication but that should be quite limited. We have too much work to do so we need to spread the workload around to a much wider group of people in the community. The Council will untimately have to make decisions on the work of any taskforce or working group anyway. Chuck Gomes "This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized use, distribution, or disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify sender immediately and destroy/delete the original transmission."

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:15 AM To: council@gnso.icann.org Subject: RE: [council] Regarding Observers

I support openness on WGs, but share the concern expressed by some about the size of WGs and so agree there should be some limitation on that decided in advance. Mawaki had good thoughts on this topic, and I think the issue manifested itself at the Task Force meetings in LA re new TLDs and manifests itself in some of the WGs I am involved with.

I noted several 'votes' of that TF which included observers and did not appear to note that some Constituencies were under-represented (or explicitly leave time to go back and get fuller views from those Constituencies on those straw vote issues, before further draft reports -- if this indeed is happening, then excellent!). I also noted many of the same observers talking more often and at greater length than Councilors, in general, on almost every issue. This also happens in WGs but is more understandable in that context since they do not involve the entire Council.

I think the Council needs to separate its deliberations from those of the TF at various points, to mitigate against undue influence of observers and allow equal representation of all Constituencies.

Thanks.

Mike Rodenbaugh

Sr. Legal Director

Yahoo! Inc.

NOTICE: This communication is confidential and may be protected by attorney-client and/or work product privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me by reply, and delete this communication and any attachments.

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Tonkin Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 12:50 AM To: gnso-idn-wg@icann.org; gnso-pro-wg@icann.org; gnso-rn-wg@icann.org Cc: council@gnso.icann.org Subject: [council] Regarding Observers

Hello All,

I have had no objections to the notice posted on the Council list at: http://www.gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/council/msg03 251.html

There have been some suggested refinements on the Council mailing list to deal with potential problems. At the next Council meeting I will ask the Council to formally endorse a policy on observers in working groups. As the working groups are on a tight time-line, I don't want to hold up the spirit of the support I have received from many of the GNSO Council members for allowing more participation in working groups.

So I encourage working groups to move forward on the following basis with respect to allowing "observers", who are not GNSO constituency members.

"Observers: Observers shall not be members of or entitled to vote on the working group, but otherwise shall be entitled to participate on equal footing with members of the working group. In particular observers will be able to join the mailing list, and attend teleconferences or physical meetings."

To guard against some of the behaviour that can occur with unregulated mailing lists, observers must provide their real name, organisation (if associated with an organisation) and contact details to the GNSO secretariat, and the GNSO secretariat will verify at least their email address and phone contact information. Observers will also be requested to provide a public statement of interest, as for working group members.

Where a person joins an already established working group, this will be on the basis that it is their responsibility to read the existing documents, listen to teleconference recordings, and read the mailing list discussions before commenting on topics that have already been dealt with by the working group.

Regards, Bruce Tonkin

Excellent 4 points, Chuck,

We have too much work to do so we need to spread the workload around to a much wider group of people in the community

Size in fact can be important in this case thru effective leadership and delegation of work group, i.e the RN WG is an excellent example of large size WG I have encountered since I joined GNSO. In fact, I think this sort of management style is what can encouraged in ICANN, to expedite its policy process, get diverse, views and *involve people on the actual work which gives them ownership and resonsibility,* so they get engaged positively and constructively; instead of trying to be heard on every issue and/or otherwise check out mentally;) Best, Sophia On 02/03/07, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes@verisign.com> wrote:

More important in my opinion than the size of task forces and working groups or whether people are observers or constituency reps are the following: - Making sure that as many diverse points of view are represented as possible - Ensuring that all participants are constructive - Providing effective leadership of the group - Providing sufficient staff support (administrative and policy)

Also, I strongly believe that we need to move away from task forces and working groups being made up predominately of Counsel reps. That just doesn't scale. The Council should oversee each taskforce or working group and should have a few members on the group to faciliate communication but that should be quite limited. We have too much work to do so we need to spread the workload around to a much wider group of people in the community. The Council will untimately have to make decisions on the work of any taskforce or working group anyway.

Chuck Gomes

"This message is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any unauthorized use, distribution, or disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify sender immediately and destroy/delete the original transmission."

...

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 11:15 AM To: council@gnso.icann.org Subject: RE: [council] Regarding Observers

I support openness on WGs, but share the concern expressed by some about the size of WGs and so agree there should be some limitation on that decided in advance. Mawaki had good thoughts on this topic, and I think the issue manifested itself at the Task Force meetings in LA re new TLDs and manifests itself in some of the WGs I am involved with.

I noted several 'votes' of that TF which included observers and did not appear to note that some Constituencies were under-represented (or explicitly leave time to go back and get fuller views from those Constituencies on those straw vote issues, before further draft reports -- if this indeed is happening, then excellent!). I also noted many of the same observers talking more often and at greater length than Councilors, in general, on almost every issue. This also happens in WGs but is more understandable in that context since they do not involve the entire Council.

I think the Council needs to separate its deliberations from those of the TF at various points, to mitigate against undue influence of observers and allow equal representation of all Constituencies.

Thanks.

Mike Rodenbaugh

Sr. Legal Director

Yahoo! Inc.

NOTICE: This communication is confidential and may be protected by attorney-client and/or work product privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me by reply, and delete this communication and any attachments.

-----Original Message----- From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Tonkin Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 12:50 AM To: gnso-idn-wg@icann.org; gnso-pro-wg@icann.org; gnso-rn-wg@icann.org Cc: council@gnso.icann.org Subject: [council] Regarding Observers

Hello All,

I have had no objections to the notice posted on the Council list at: http://www.gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/council/msg03 251.html

There have been some suggested refinements on the Council mailing list to deal with potential problems. At the next Council meeting I will ask the Council to formally endorse a policy on observers in working groups. As the working groups are on a tight time-line, I don't want to hold up the spirit of the support I have received from many of the GNSO Council members for allowing more participation in working groups.

So I encourage working groups to move forward on the following basis with respect to allowing "observers", who are not GNSO constituency members.

"Observers: Observers shall not be members of or entitled to vote on the working group, but otherwise shall be entitled to participate on equal footing with members of the working group. In particular observers will be able to join the mailing list, and attend teleconferences or physical meetings."

To guard against some of the behaviour that can occur with unregulated mailing lists, observers must provide their real name, organisation (if associated with an organisation) and contact details to the GNSO secretariat, and the GNSO secretariat will verify at least their email address and phone contact information. Observers will also be requested to provide a public statement of interest, as for working group members.

Where a person joins an already established working group, this will be on the basis that it is their responsibility to read the existing documents, listen to teleconference recordings, and read the mailing list discussions before commenting on topics that have already been dealt with by the working group.

Regards, Bruce Tonkin