EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request
Hi all, Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting. As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes. I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting. Thank you. Best, Rafik
Thanks Rafik. Keith From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> On Behalf Of Rafik Dammak Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 6:34 AM To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Hi all, Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting. As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes. I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting. Thank you. Best, Rafik
Rafik We’ve discussed some of the issues around reaching “consensus” on certain points within this WG several times in the last few months. Some of the topics where there is a divergence of opinion are the very same topics that some of us have been debating (or arguing) about for many many years. In reality I personally do not think that adding time to the WG’s timeline will result in any significant changes of what are entrenched views. Now of course I could be mistaken and this is, for now, just my personal view. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com https://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday 10 June 2020 at 11:34 To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Hi all, Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting. As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes. I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting. Thank you. Best, Rafik
I feel that an extension to the end of Janis availability to allow the team to wrap up might be fine, just an extra few days, but I share Michele’s concerns about going beyond just some time to wrap up. If we entertain any more than that then I think we are opening a veritable can of worms. --- James Gannon From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Date: Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 15:09 To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com>, Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Rafik We’ve discussed some of the issues around reaching “consensus” on certain points within this WG several times in the last few months. Some of the topics where there is a divergence of opinion are the very same topics that some of us have been debating (or arguing) about for many many years. In reality I personally do not think that adding time to the WG’s timeline will result in any significant changes of what are entrenched views. Now of course I could be mistaken and this is, for now, just my personal view. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com https://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday 10 June 2020 at 11:34 To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Hi all, Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting. As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes. I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting. Thank you. Best, Rafik
As I understand it there are two (linked) sets of issues before Council: 1. The Framework Document circulated by Rafik on 2 June on possible next steps to address unresolved Priority 2 items. 2. The Project Change Request for an extension to 31 July for the Phase 1 Report on Priority 1 items. It appears there may be a further complication in that there is no EPDP consensus on an evolution mechanism for the SSAD (to enable changes to be made in the light of operational data), including whether this is policy or implementation, possible use of a GNSO Guidance Process (first time a GGP would be used?) etc. I gather they are still working on this. So my initial thoughts are: * The end game is looking at least as much political as it is project/process management, with the risk of a non-consensus report for Priority 1 items if some parties want to link it to Priority 2 processes. * Resetting the EPDP for 3 months or so (would this actually be EPDP Phase 3?) as suggested in the paper circulated on 2 June may be problematic in terms of (a) exhausted consensus options (b) exhausted EPDP members (c) uncertain budget implications * Any post-EPDP scoping exercise initiated by Council to address Priority 2 items (or anything else that remains unresolved) should have very clear timeframes * Re the PCR, I tend to share James’ and Michele’s concerns that anything beyond 30 June could be seen as simply kicking the can down the road – although work within the EPDP in the next few weeks might give some hope. There is also the budget implication (as yet unquantified) noted in the PCR. Regards Tom Dale From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of James Gannon <lists@icann.guru> Date: Friday, 12 June 2020 at 12:30 am To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request I feel that an extension to the end of Janis availability to allow the team to wrap up might be fine, just an extra few days, but I share Michele’s concerns about going beyond just some time to wrap up. If we entertain any more than that then I think we are opening a veritable can of worms. --- James Gannon From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Date: Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 15:09 To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com>, Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Rafik We’ve discussed some of the issues around reaching “consensus” on certain points within this WG several times in the last few months. Some of the topics where there is a divergence of opinion are the very same topics that some of us have been debating (or arguing) about for many many years. In reality I personally do not think that adding time to the WG’s timeline will result in any significant changes of what are entrenched views. Now of course I could be mistaken and this is, for now, just my personal view. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com https://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday 10 June 2020 at 11:34 To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Hi all, Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting. As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes. I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting. Thank you. Best, Rafik
hi all, thanks for your comments. The original delivery date was 11th June and that is literally yesterday. We are following PDP 3.0 recommendations and sending PCR when we are missing our timeline by a few weeks and keeping ourselves accountable. What we are aiming for is to submit the final report to council early July and we set 31st July as a buffer. As Tom pointed in his email, this extension is intended to close deliberations on the final report on SSAD or priority 1 and get it done. Following the work plan, we already shared in the EPDP list the draft Final Report and list of cannot live with items, reviewing and resolving them for the next weeks (and we already added several calls for that purpose). For priority 2 issues, the items which cannot be covered were identified in the framework proposal sent to council and up to council to decide how to deal with them.With regard to budget, there are no budget concerns as we do not foresee any additional costs to deliver the final report. On a more personal note I can also state that I cannot commit to work beyond 31st July and there is no way I will ask for a longer extension. Best, Rafik Le ven. 12 juin 2020 à 07:34, Tom Dale <tomwdale@gmail.com> a écrit :
As I understand it there are two (linked) sets of issues before Council:
1. The Framework Document circulated by Rafik on 2 June on possible next steps to address unresolved Priority 2 items. 2. The Project Change Request for an extension to 31 July for the Phase 1 Report on Priority 1 items.
It appears there may be a further complication in that there is no EPDP consensus on an evolution mechanism for the SSAD (to enable changes to be made in the light of operational data), including whether this is policy or implementation, possible use of a GNSO Guidance Process (first time a GGP would be used?) etc. I gather they are still working on this.
So my initial thoughts are:
- The end game is looking at least as much political as it is project/process management, with the risk of a non-consensus report for Priority 1 items if some parties want to link it to Priority 2 processes. - Resetting the EPDP for 3 months or so (would this actually be EPDP Phase 3?) as suggested in the paper circulated on 2 June may be problematic in terms of (a) exhausted consensus options (b) exhausted EPDP members (c) uncertain budget implications - Any post-EPDP scoping exercise initiated by Council to address Priority 2 items (or anything else that remains unresolved) should have very clear timeframes - Re the PCR, I tend to share James’ and Michele’s concerns that anything beyond 30 June could be seen as simply kicking the can down the road – although work within the EPDP in the next few weeks might give some hope. There is also the budget implication (as yet unquantified) noted in the PCR.
Regards
Tom Dale
*From: *council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of James Gannon <lists@icann.guru> *Date: *Friday, 12 June 2020 at 12:30 am *To: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com>, Council GNSO < council@gnso.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request
I feel that an extension to the end of Janis availability to allow the team to wrap up might be fine, just an extra few days, but I share Michele’s concerns about going beyond just some time to wrap up. If we entertain any more than that then I think we are opening a veritable can of worms.
---
*James Gannon*
*From: *council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> *Date: *Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 15:09 *To: *Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com>, Council GNSO < council@gnso.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request
Rafik
We’ve discussed some of the issues around reaching “consensus” on certain points within this WG several times in the last few months.
Some of the topics where there is a divergence of opinion are the very same topics that some of us have been debating (or arguing) about for many many years. In reality I personally do not think that adding time to the WG’s timeline will result in any significant changes of what are entrenched views.
Now of course I could be mistaken and this is, for now, just my personal view.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> on behalf of Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com> *Date: *Wednesday 10 June 2020 at 11:34 *To: *Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> *Subject: *[council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request
Hi all,
Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting.
As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes.
I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting.
Thank you.
Best,
Rafik
_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Thanks for all of your work on this, Rafik. Our concerns are well-documented; we strongly believe that those issues that were not addressed in Phase 1 on the understanding that they would be fully considered in Phase 2 should not simply be discarded. None of us want a whole new process but, in particular, the accuracy and legal vs natural points need to be resolved as soon as possible (a view shared by the GAC, ALAC and SSAC). Retaining the expertise of the EPDP members would clearly prevent wheel-reinvention, so a limited, reconstituted PDP just for these issues may be the quickest and most practical solution. Best Marie From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> On Behalf Of Rafik Dammak Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 1:41 AM To: Tom Dale <tomwdale@gmail.com> Cc: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request hi all, thanks for your comments. The original delivery date was 11th June and that is literally yesterday. We are following PDP 3.0 recommendations and sending PCR when we are missing our timeline by a few weeks and keeping ourselves accountable. What we are aiming for is to submit the final report to council early July and we set 31st July as a buffer. As Tom pointed in his email, this extension is intended to close deliberations on the final report on SSAD or priority 1 and get it done. Following the work plan, we already shared in the EPDP list the draft Final Report and list of cannot live with items, reviewing and resolving them for the next weeks (and we already added several calls for that purpose). For priority 2 issues, the items which cannot be covered were identified in the framework proposal sent to council and up to council to decide how to deal with them.With regard to budget, there are no budget concerns as we do not foresee any additional costs to deliver the final report. On a more personal note I can also state that I cannot commit to work beyond 31st July and there is no way I will ask for a longer extension. Best, Rafik Le ven. 12 juin 2020 à 07:34, Tom Dale <tomwdale@gmail.com<mailto:tomwdale@gmail.com>> a écrit : As I understand it there are two (linked) sets of issues before Council: 1. The Framework Document circulated by Rafik on 2 June on possible next steps to address unresolved Priority 2 items. 2. The Project Change Request for an extension to 31 July for the Phase 1 Report on Priority 1 items. It appears there may be a further complication in that there is no EPDP consensus on an evolution mechanism for the SSAD (to enable changes to be made in the light of operational data), including whether this is policy or implementation, possible use of a GNSO Guidance Process (first time a GGP would be used?) etc. I gather they are still working on this. So my initial thoughts are: * The end game is looking at least as much political as it is project/process management, with the risk of a non-consensus report for Priority 1 items if some parties want to link it to Priority 2 processes. * Resetting the EPDP for 3 months or so (would this actually be EPDP Phase 3?) as suggested in the paper circulated on 2 June may be problematic in terms of (a) exhausted consensus options (b) exhausted EPDP members (c) uncertain budget implications * Any post-EPDP scoping exercise initiated by Council to address Priority 2 items (or anything else that remains unresolved) should have very clear timeframes * Re the PCR, I tend to share James’ and Michele’s concerns that anything beyond 30 June could be seen as simply kicking the can down the road – although work within the EPDP in the next few weeks might give some hope. There is also the budget implication (as yet unquantified) noted in the PCR. Regards Tom Dale From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of James Gannon <lists@icann.guru<mailto:lists@icann.guru>> Date: Friday, 12 June 2020 at 12:30 am To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>>, Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request I feel that an extension to the end of Janis availability to allow the team to wrap up might be fine, just an extra few days, but I share Michele’s concerns about going beyond just some time to wrap up. If we entertain any more than that then I think we are opening a veritable can of worms. --- James Gannon From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Date: Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 15:09 To: Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com<mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>, Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Rafik We’ve discussed some of the issues around reaching “consensus” on certain points within this WG several times in the last few months. Some of the topics where there is a divergence of opinion are the very same topics that some of us have been debating (or arguing) about for many many years. In reality I personally do not think that adding time to the WG’s timeline will result in any significant changes of what are entrenched views. Now of course I could be mistaken and this is, for now, just my personal view. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com https://blacknight.blog / http://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park, Sleaty Road, Graiguecullen, Carlow, R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> on behalf of Rafik Dammak <rafik.dammak@gmail.com<mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 10 June 2020 at 11:34 To: Council GNSO <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: [council] EPDP Phase 2 Project Change Request Hi all, Please find attached a Project Change Request (PCR) for the EPDP Phase 2 Final Report. As communicated in prior project list updates, the EPDP was in jeopardy of missing its 11 June 2020 delivery date. The EPDP Leadership team is now targeting mid-July for delivery of the report. However, within the PCR you will see a request to extend until the 31st of July to act as a buffer for the EPDP to conclude its deliberations and seek consensus. This extra time is to mitigate the need for an additional PCR as current conditions on certain policy topics have yet to yield high confidence in consensus of the overall Final Report. Also attached is an updated EPDP-P2 Project Package for 11 June to reflect the change in Status/Health of the project. An update of the EPDP is expected to be a part of the GNSO Council’s agenda for the June meeting. As a side note and more in reference to PDP 3.0, I’m also including a compilation of all the EPDP Project SitRep reports as communicated via the Council’s Project list and the monthly EPDP Project Packages. This is unrelated to the PCR, but it is interesting to see how this project executed over time, achieved its milestones, and the change of Status/Health codes. I am happy to take questions back to the EPDP Leadership team should you have any prior to our next Council meeting. Thank you. Best, Rafik _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
participants (6)
-
Drazek, Keith -
James Gannon -
Marie Pattullo -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Rafik Dammak -
Tom Dale