Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation. The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level . -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
*From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM *To:* Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco *Cc:* CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs
CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco < hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
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-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
Hi Eduardo,I support your suggestion. Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> wrote: My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation. The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level . -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote: Hi All, Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading. Kind regards Hadia From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org]On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Thank you Eduardo and Glenn. CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs | | | | CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr... | | | Kind regards Hadia On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks a lot Eduardo!!! Enviado desde mi iPhone El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió: All: Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future. We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that). NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC. -ed -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
Thank you for your feedback. -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 3:28 PM Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz < eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
*From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM *To:* Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco *Cc:* CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs
CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco < hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
*NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote: Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion. Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote: My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation. The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level . -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote: Hi All, Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading. Kind regards Hadia From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Thank you Eduardo and Glenn. CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs<https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...> CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr... Kind regards Hadia On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks a lot Eduardo!!! Enviado desde mi iPhone El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió: All: Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future. We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that). NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC. -ed -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Thank you Roberto, please provide a link to the material when it comes available Hadia ________________________________ From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: 21 June 2019 12:13 To: Hadia El Miniawi Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi; Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>; CPWG Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote: Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion. Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote: My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation. The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level . -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote: Hi All, Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading. Kind regards Hadia From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Thank you Eduardo and Glenn. CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs<https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...> CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr... Kind regards Hadia On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks a lot Eduardo!!! Enviado desde mi iPhone El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió: All: Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future. We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that). NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC. -ed -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I will. I am unlikely to have connectivity over the weekend but will try on Monday. Cheers, R
On 21.06.2019, at 14:52, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Thank you Roberto, please provide a link to the material when it comes available
Hadia
________________________________ From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: 21 June 2019 12:13 To: Hadia El Miniawi Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi; Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>; CPWG Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs<https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
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Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask. Cheers, Roberto
On 21.06.2019, at 13:52, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Thank you Roberto, please provide a link to the material when it comes available
Hadia
________________________________ From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: 21 June 2019 12:13 To: Hadia El Miniawi Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi; Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>; CPWG Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs<https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto:
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask.
Hi all, the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here: https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
ISPA nominated Mozilla in the “Internet Villain” category for DNS over HTTPs push, withdrew nominations and category after community backlash, 11 July 2019 <https://hub.packtpub.com/ispa-nominated-mozilla-in-the-internet-villain-category-for-dns-over-https-push-withdrew-nominations-and-category-after-community-backlash/>A partly informative and partly entertaining read. Justine Chew ----- On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 23:27, Vittorio Bertola via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:
Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto:
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask.
Hi all,
the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here:
https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh...
Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4
Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <-------- _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Thanks Justine A must read for the DoH and DoT technologies. Holly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justine Chew" To:"CPWG" Cc: Sent:Fri, 12 Jul 2019 15:26:56 +0800 Subject:Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS ISPA NOMINATED MOZILLA IN THE “INTERNET VILLAIN” CATEGORY FOR DNS OVER HTTPS PUSH, WITHDREW NOMINATIONS AND CATEGORY AFTER COMMUNITY BACKLASH, 11 JULY 2019 [1] A partly informative and partly entertaining read. Justine Chew ----- On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 23:27, Vittorio Bertola via CPWG wrote: Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto:
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask.
Hi all, the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here: https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... [3] Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 [4] Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu [5] now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ [6] Links: ------ [1] http://webmail.internode.on.net/HTTPS://HUB.PACKTPUB.COM/ISPA-NOMINATED-MOZI... [2] mailto:cpwg@icann.org [3] https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 [5] http://bertola.eu [6] http://bertola.eu/ [7] mailto:CPWG@icann.org [8] https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg [9] https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [10] https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos
Thank for this. It adds to the debate. -ed On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 3:27 AM Justine Chew <justine.chew@gmail.com> wrote:
ISPA nominated Mozilla in the “Internet Villain” category for DNS over HTTPs push, withdrew nominations and category after community backlash, 11 July 2019 <https://hub.packtpub.com/ispa-nominated-mozilla-in-the-internet-villain-category-for-dns-over-https-push-withdrew-nominations-and-category-after-community-backlash/>A partly informative and partly entertaining read.
Justine Chew -----
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 23:27, Vittorio Bertola via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:
Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto:
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask.
Hi all,
the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here:
https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh...
Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4
Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <-------- _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
Hi all. I am now in Kiev, attending the RIPE NCC meeting. In the first half day DNS over HTTPS has been “the” topic. First, there has been a presentation by Taras Heichenko - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - that illustrated the technology after a brief general explanation of the DNS. Then Paul Vixie - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - presented a vehement attack on DoH getting into details about all the damages it can, and will, produce. I have asked him whether pressure from the users could have any effect, to which he answered that many users trust their browser suppliers more than they trust, e.g., their government, so he doubts that this pressure could be created. To me, this means that we, as ALAC, have the basic task of informing the users about the risks and create awareness in first place. It seems to me that besides technical circles - RIPE NCC being one - there is not enough information to the laymen users. Cheers, Roberto Begin forwarded message: From: Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu<mailto:vb@bertola.eu>> Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Date: 24. June 2019 at 18:26:48 EEST To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>>, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com<mailto:hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com>>, "Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>" <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto: Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask. Hi all, the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here: https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
Dear Roberto, thanks for your update on this. Worth noting, this week-end, a non-technical colleague of mine told me of his liking of DoH on his browser as he and his colleagues in his company are able to go around the DNS blocking that the company practices as a policy, thus letting him check his emails from work. So as far as he's concerned, he likes DNS over HTTPS! Best, Olivier On 24/09/2019 11:13, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
Hi all. I am now in Kiev, attending the RIPE NCC meeting. In the first half day DNS over HTTPS has been “the” topic. First, there has been a presentation by Taras Heichenko - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - that illustrated the technology after a brief general explanation of the DNS. Then Paul Vixie - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - presented a vehement attack on DoH getting into details about all the damages it can, and will, produce. I have asked him whether pressure from the users could have any effect, to which he answered that many users trust their browser suppliers more than they trust, e.g., their government, so he doubts that this pressure could be created. To me, this means that we, as ALAC, have the basic task of informing the users about the risks and create awareness in first place. It seems to me that besides technical circles - RIPE NCC being one - there is not enough information to the laymen users. Cheers, Roberto
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu <mailto:vb@bertola.eu>> *Subject: **Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS* *Date: *24. June 2019 at 18:26:48 EEST *To: *Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> *Cc: *Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg <mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>>, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com <mailto:hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com>>, "Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>" <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org <mailto:cpwg@icann.org>>
Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto:
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask.
Hi all,
the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here:
https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh...
Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4
Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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I got hired to make a video calling attention to the risks, sort of... StopGoogle.tv/1984<http://StopGoogle.tv/1984> Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> ________________________________ From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:13:27 AM To: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Hi all. I am now in Kiev, attending the RIPE NCC meeting. In the first half day DNS over HTTPS has been “the” topic. First, there has been a presentation by Taras Heichenko - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - that illustrated the technology after a brief general explanation of the DNS. Then Paul Vixie - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - presented a vehement attack on DoH getting into details about all the damages it can, and will, produce. I have asked him whether pressure from the users could have any effect, to which he answered that many users trust their browser suppliers more than they trust, e.g., their government, so he doubts that this pressure could be created. To me, this means that we, as ALAC, have the basic task of informing the users about the risks and create awareness in first place. It seems to me that besides technical circles - RIPE NCC being one - there is not enough information to the laymen users. Cheers, Roberto Begin forwarded message: From: Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu<mailto:vb@bertola.eu>> Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Date: 24. June 2019 at 18:26:48 EEST To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>>, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com<mailto:hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com>>, "Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>" <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto: Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask. Hi all, the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here: https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
Hi Jonathan. Nice video! Is there any copyright issue or can this be shown at meetings like regional IGFs when the topic is relevant? For instance, there will be a session on DoH at IGF Italy next month, Vittorio Bertola will be talking about it. R On 24.09.2019, at 17:59, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> wrote: I got hired to make a video calling attention to the risks, sort of... StopGoogle.tv/1984<http://stopgoogle.tv/1984> Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.innovatorsnetwork.org/> ________________________________ From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:13:27 AM To: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Hi all. I am now in Kiev, attending the RIPE NCC meeting. In the first half day DNS over HTTPS has been “the” topic. First, there has been a presentation by Taras Heichenko - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - that illustrated the technology after a brief general explanation of the DNS. Then Paul Vixie - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - presented a vehement attack on DoH getting into details about all the damages it can, and will, produce. I have asked him whether pressure from the users could have any effect, to which he answered that many users trust their browser suppliers more than they trust, e.g., their government, so he doubts that this pressure could be created. To me, this means that we, as ALAC, have the basic task of informing the users about the risks and create awareness in first place. It seems to me that besides technical circles - RIPE NCC being one - there is not enough information to the laymen users. Cheers, Roberto Begin forwarded message: From: Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu<mailto:vb@bertola.eu>> Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Date: 24. June 2019 at 18:26:48 EEST To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>>, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com<mailto:hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com>>, "Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>" <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto: Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask. Hi all, the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here: https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu<http://bertola.eu> <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
No copyright issue as there is no borrowed footage. Show wherever you like! Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> ________________________________ From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 11:11:18 AM To: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Cc: cpwg@icann.org <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Hi Jonathan. Nice video! Is there any copyright issue or can this be shown at meetings like regional IGFs when the topic is relevant? For instance, there will be a session on DoH at IGF Italy next month, Vittorio Bertola will be talking about it. R On 24.09.2019, at 17:59, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> wrote: I got hired to make a video calling attention to the risks, sort of... StopGoogle.tv/1984<http://stopgoogle.tv/1984> Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.innovatorsnetwork.org/> ________________________________ From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:13:27 AM To: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Subject: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Hi all. I am now in Kiev, attending the RIPE NCC meeting. In the first half day DNS over HTTPS has been “the” topic. First, there has been a presentation by Taras Heichenko - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - that illustrated the technology after a brief general explanation of the DNS. Then Paul Vixie - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - presented a vehement attack on DoH getting into details about all the damages it can, and will, produce. I have asked him whether pressure from the users could have any effect, to which he answered that many users trust their browser suppliers more than they trust, e.g., their government, so he doubts that this pressure could be created. To me, this means that we, as ALAC, have the basic task of informing the users about the risks and create awareness in first place. It seems to me that besides technical circles - RIPE NCC being one - there is not enough information to the laymen users. Cheers, Roberto Begin forwarded message: From: Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu<mailto:vb@bertola.eu>> Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Date: 24. June 2019 at 18:26:48 EEST To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>>, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com<mailto:hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com>>, "Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>" <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto: Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask. Hi all, the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here: https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh... Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4 Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu<http://bertola.eu> <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
Good to know, thanks. Was going to share with our local ISOC chapter. Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 10:14 AM Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
No copyright issue as there is no borrowed footage. Show wherever you like!
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
------------------------------ *From:* Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2019 11:11:18 AM *To:* Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> *Cc:* cpwg@icann.org <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Hi Jonathan. Nice video! Is there any copyright issue or can this be shown at meetings like regional IGFs when the topic is relevant? For instance, there will be a session on DoH at IGF Italy next month, Vittorio Bertola will be talking about it. R
On 24.09.2019, at 17:59, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
I got hired to make a video calling attention to the risks, sort of... StopGoogle.tv/1984 <http://stopgoogle.tv/1984>
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org <http://www.innovatorsnetwork.org/>
------------------------------ *From:* GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:13:27 AM *To:* CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject:* [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Fwd: [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Hi all. I am now in Kiev, attending the RIPE NCC meeting. In the first half day DNS over HTTPS has been “the” topic. First, there has been a presentation by Taras Heichenko - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - that illustrated the technology after a brief general explanation of the DNS. Then Paul Vixie - see https://www.ripe.net/participate/forms/uploads/fobi_plugins/file/ripe-ncc-da... - presented a vehement attack on DoH getting into details about all the damages it can, and will, produce. I have asked him whether pressure from the users could have any effect, to which he answered that many users trust their browser suppliers more than they trust, e.g., their government, so he doubts that this pressure could be created. To me, this means that we, as ALAC, have the basic task of informing the users about the risks and create awareness in first place. It seems to me that besides technical circles - RIPE NCC being one - there is not enough information to the laymen users. Cheers, Roberto
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *Vittorio Bertola <vb@bertola.eu> *Subject: **Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS* *Date: *24. June 2019 at 18:26:48 EEST *To: *Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Cc: *Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg>, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com>, "Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>" <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>
Il 2019-06-24 17:12 Roberto Gaetano ha scritto:
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask.
Hi all,
the information on last week's panel, including the link to download the presentation that I gave, can be found here:
https://eurodigwiki.org/wiki/DNS_over_HTTPS_%E2%80%93_What_is_it,_and_why_sh...
Video is not yet available, but you can watch the version I gave at FOSDEM, though the EuroDIG one was updated and especially integrated with an easier explanation of encrypted DNS for non-technical people:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMk12379DQ4
Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
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Bonjour, All the links I was able to gather (including the slides of Vittorio) are in this Google Doc. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_RFSOKCWr3-B_gYnYPRESDWOyIa9eFwtLyk7EEsc... All the best SeB
Le 24 juin 2019 à 16:12, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> a écrit :
Video recording and transcription are not yet available. However, I am sure that Vittorio can send, in the meantime, the slides of his presentation. He is in copy of this message - but he is also here in Marrakesh, so any of us who sees him can ask. Cheers, Roberto
On 21.06.2019, at 13:52, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Thank you Roberto, please provide a link to the material when it comes available
Hadia
________________________________ From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: 21 June 2019 12:13 To: Hadia El Miniawi Cc: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi; Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail. com>; CPWG Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs<https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
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Can we ask Vittorio to give At-Large the presentation he has given during Eurodig? DNS-over-HTTPS and its policy issues <https://bertola.eu/file/ig/The%20DoH%20dilemma%20-%20EuroDIG%202019.pdf> Preferably in person during Marrakesh (I agree with Eduardo that it is becoming an very important topic both for Internet, the DNS, ICANN and end-users) if not during a webinar. All the best SeB
Le 21 juin 2019 à 11:13, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> a écrit :
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org <mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg <mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote: Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com <mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 <https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0> (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
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Pretty good tutorial. https://hacks.mozilla.org/2018/05/a-cartoon-intro-to-dns-over-https/ On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 at 11:16, Sebastien Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr> wrote:
Can we ask Vittorio to give At-Large the presentation he has given during Eurodig? DNS-over-HTTPS and its policy issues <https://bertola.eu/file/ig/The%20DoH%20dilemma%20-%20EuroDIG%202019.pdf> Preferably in person during Marrakesh (I agree with Eduardo that it is becoming an very important topic both for Internet, the DNS, ICANN and end-users) if not during a webinar. All the best SeB
Le 21 juin 2019 à 11:13, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> a écrit :
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz < eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
*From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM *To:* Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco *Cc:* CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco < hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
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-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
The Mozilla web page on how it introduced an implementation of "DoH" <https://blog.nightly.mozilla.org/2018/06/01/improving-dns-privacy-in-firefox...> in collaboration with Cloudfare is actually a fascinating read. And going through the comments, it seems that this approach in not without controversy. The advantage of DoH preventing man-in-the-middle attacks enables it to circumvent deliberate firewall-level DNS filtering (corporate policy, adult sites, other filters). There is also a legitimate concern of such configuration being done at the browser level rather than the OS. However, at least DoH is available for anyone to try on Firefox (version 62 and later). Instructions are in the above link. - Evan
That would be a great session if possible RegardsHadia On Friday, June 21, 2019, 5:15:49 PM GMT+2, Sebastien Bachollet <sebicann@bachollet.fr> wrote: Can we ask Vittorio to give At-Large the presentation he has given during Eurodig?DNS-over-HTTPS and its policy issuesPreferably in person during Marrakesh (I agree with Eduardo that it is becoming an very important topic both for Internet, the DNS, ICANN and end-users) if not during a webinar. All the bestSeB Le 21 juin 2019 à 11:13, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> a écrit : The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good.IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment.The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives.Cheers,Roberto On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote: Hi Eduardo,I support your suggestion. HadiaOn Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> wrote: My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation. The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level . -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote: Hi All, Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading. Kind regards Hadia From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org]On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Thank you Eduardo and Glenn. CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs | | | | CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr... | | | Kind regards Hadia On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks a lot Eduardo!!! Enviado desde mi iPhone El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió: All: Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future. We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that). NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC. -ed -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately._______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Hello all, Vittorio will be in Marrakech. Could be an idea to invite him to whatever session we have on this topic, if we have one. Kindest regards, Olivier On 21/06/2019 12:13, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org <mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg <mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
*From:*CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM *To:* Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco *Cc:* CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs
CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com <mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com <mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
*NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
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_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
I am for it. -ed On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 12:30 PM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:
Hello all,
Vittorio will be in Marrakech. Could be an idea to invite him to whatever session we have on this topic, if we have one. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 21/06/2019 12:13, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz < eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
*From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM *To:* Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco *Cc:* CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco < hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
*NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing listCPWG@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing listregistration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhDhttp://www.gih.com/ocl.html
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
+1 CW PS: preferably not the geo-names session.
El 21 de junio de 2019 a las 18:49 Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió:
I am for it.
-ed
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 12:30 PM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com mailto:ocl@gih.com > wrote:
> > Hello all,
Vittorio will be in Marrakech. Could be an idea to invite him to whatever session we have on this topic, if we have one. Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 21/06/2019 12:13, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
> > > The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good.
IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto
> > > > On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG < cpwg@icann.org mailto:cpwg@icann.org > wrote:
Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion.
Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz < eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com > wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg > wrote:
> > > > >
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org ] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com > wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com > escribió:
> > > > > >
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
> > > > >
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
> > > >
-- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
> > >
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org mailto:CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
> >
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
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Good afternoon: With a view to our meeting at Marrakech on Tuesday morning, CPWG leadership has requested input on my part. I attach two discussion papers: - Geographical names in the PDP and work track 5; - protection of ISO4217 alpha3 currency codes. I would be grateful if ICANN staff could re-format these papers as appropriate for on-screen projection during the discussion. Thankyou and best regards Christopher Wilkinson PS: I shall join the CPWG meeting, online, remotely.
Hi all. TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC. Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should *end-users* care at all if currency codes are protected or not?" I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate *end-user*-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege. Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to *end-users*, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us? The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored. I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD. In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones *directly impacting end users* -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest. Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation. Cheers, Evan
Agree with this in principle. We shouldn't take any stand without a specific end user interests. Is there one here? Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> ________________________________ From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 2:18:21 AM To: mail@christopherwilkinson.eu CW Cc: CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech. Hi all. TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC. Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should end-users care at all if currency codes are protected or not?" I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate end-user-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege. Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to end-users, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us? The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored. I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD. In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones directly impacting end users -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest. Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation. Cheers, Evan
I agree with Evan — there is no end-user interest here. Greg On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:27 AM Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
Agree with this in principle. We shouldn't take any stand without a specific end user interests. Is there one here?
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
------------------------------ *From:* GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2019 2:18:21 AM *To:* mail@christopherwilkinson.eu CW *Cc:* CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech.
Hi all.
TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC.
Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should *end-users* care at all if currency codes are protected or not?"
I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate *end-user*-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege.
Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to *end-users*, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us?
The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored.
I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD.
In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones *directly impacting end users* -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest.
Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation.
Cheers, Evan
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-- Greg Shatan greg@isoc-ny.org President, ISOC-NY *"The Internet is for everyone"*
Concur From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Greg Shatan Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 11:18 AM To: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Cc: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>; mail@christopherwilkinson.eu CW <mail@christopherwilkinson.eu>; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CPWG] [GTLD-WG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech. I agree with Evan — there is no end-user interest here. Greg On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:27 AM Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org <mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> > wrote: Agree with this in principle. We shouldn't take any stand without a specific end user interests. Is there one here? Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org <http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> _____ From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> > on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org <mailto:evan@telly.org> > Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 2:18:21 AM To: mail@christopherwilkinson.eu <mailto:mail@christopherwilkinson.eu> CW Cc: CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com <mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech. Hi all. TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC. Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should end-users care at all if currency codes are protected or not?" I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate end-user-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege. Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to end-users, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us? The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored. I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD. In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones directly impacting end users -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest. Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation. Cheers, Evan _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Greg Shatan <mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org> greg@isoc-ny.org President, ISOC-NY "The Internet is for everyone"
I also concur Holly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Shatan" To:"Jonathan Zuck" Cc:"CPWG" , "justine.chew.icann@gmail.com" Sent:Mon, 24 Jun 2019 11:18:23 +0100 Subject:Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] [GTLD-WG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech. I agree with Evan — there is no end-user interest here. Greg On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:27 AM Jonathan Zuck wrote: Agree with this in principle. We shouldn't take any stand without a specific end user interests. Is there one here? Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org [2] ------------------------- FROM: GTLD-WG on behalf of Evan Leibovitch SENT: Monday, June 24, 2019 2:18:21 AM TO: mail@christopherwilkinson.eu [5] CW CC: CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com [6] SUBJECT: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech. Hi all. TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC. Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should END-USERS care at all if currency codes are protected or not?" I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate END-USER-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege. Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to END-USERS, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us? The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored. I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD. In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones DIRECTLY IMPACTING END USERS -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest. Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation. Cheers, Evan _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org [7] https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg [8] _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [9]) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icannorg/privacy/tos [10]). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ GTLD-WG mailing list GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org [11] https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg [12] Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs [13] _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [14]) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [15]). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Greg Shatangreg@isoc-ny.org [16] President, ISOC-NY _"The Internet is for everyone"_ Links: ------ [1] mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org [2] http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org [3] mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [4] mailto:evan@telly.org [5] mailto:mail@christopherwilkinson.eu [6] mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com [7] mailto:CPWG@icann.org [8] https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg [9] https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [10] https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [11] mailto:GTLD-WG@atlarge-lists.icann.org [12] https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg [13] https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs [14] https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [15] https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [16] mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
I also concur
Thanks to all for the support of this position. As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand. In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them. *It wasn't an Alt-Large issue.* I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance. As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant. At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified. Cheers, Evan (*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?"
I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org<mailto:evan@telly.org>> wrote: On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote: I also concur Thanks to all for the support of this position. As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand. In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them. It wasn't an Alt-Large issue. I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance. As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant. At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified. Cheers, Evan (*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Exactly Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> ________________________________ From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 10:44:21 AM To: Evan Leibovitch Cc: Holly Raiche; Jonathan Zuck; CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...]) I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org<mailto:evan@telly.org>> wrote: On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote: I also concur Thanks to all for the support of this position. As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand. In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them. It wasn't an Alt-Large issue. I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance. As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant. At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified. Cheers, Evan (*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Totally agree - we need to focus on users' interests Best Hadia Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 28, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
Exactly
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 10:44:21 AM To: Evan Leibovitch Cc: Holly Raiche; Jonathan Zuck; CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...])
I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto
On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
I also concur
Thanks to all for the support of this position.
As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand.
In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them.
It wasn't an Alt-Large issue.
I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance.
As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant.
At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified.
Cheers, Evan
(*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
FWIW, I have applied to the power that be to participate at the Montreal Summit. If accepted I would be happy to moderate or chair a session on mission focus. - Evan On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 10:03, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com> wrote:
Totally agree - we need to focus on users' interests
Best Hadia
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 28, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
Exactly
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
------------------------------ *From:* Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Sent:* Friday, June 28, 2019 10:44:21 AM *To:* Evan Leibovitch *Cc:* Holly Raiche; Jonathan Zuck; CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...])
I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto
On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
I also concur
Thanks to all for the support of this position.
As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand.
In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them.
*It wasn't an Alt-Large issue.*
I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance.
As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant.
At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified.
Cheers, Evan
(*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56
Great! Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, 15:24 Evan Leibovitch, <evan@telly.org> wrote:
FWIW, I have applied to the power that be to participate at the Montreal Summit. If accepted I would be happy to moderate or chair a session on mission focus.
- Evan
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 10:03, Hadia El Miniawi <hadiaminiawi@yahoo.com> wrote:
Totally agree - we need to focus on users' interests
Best Hadia
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 28, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
Exactly
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
------------------------------ *From:* Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Sent:* Friday, June 28, 2019 10:44:21 AM *To:* Evan Leibovitch *Cc:* Holly Raiche; Jonathan Zuck; CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com *Subject:* Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...])
I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto
On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote:
I also concur
Thanks to all for the support of this position.
As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand.
In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them.
*It wasn't an Alt-Large issue.*
I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance.
As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant.
At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified.
Cheers, Evan
(*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch or @el56 _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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That’s fine but should be taken up by the ATLAS III programming committee. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 4:44 AM To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Cc: justine.chew.icann@gmail.com; CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>; Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...]) I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org <mailto:evan@telly.org> > wrote: On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net> > wrote: I also concur Thanks to all for the support of this position. As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand. In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them. It wasn't an Alt-Large issue. I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance. As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant. At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified. Cheers, Evan (*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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Correct. I did not contact the programming committee so far because I am an applicant for travel support - now that the list of successful applicants is finalized, I can do. Cheers, Roberto On 30.06.2019, at 22:23, John Laprise <jlaprise@gmail.com<mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com>> wrote: That’s fine but should be taken up by the ATLAS III programming committee. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>> On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 4:44 AM To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org<mailto:evan@telly.org>> Cc: justine.chew.icann@gmail.com<mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com>; CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>>; Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org<mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...]) I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org<mailto:evan@telly.org>> wrote: On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net<mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote: I also concur Thanks to all for the support of this position. As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand. In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them. It wasn't an Alt-Large issue. I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance. As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant. At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified. Cheers, Evan (*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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I wouldn’t wait. From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2019 3:30 PM To: John Laprise <jlaprise@gmail.com> Cc: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org>; Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann@gmail.com>; CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>; Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...]) Correct. I did not contact the programming committee so far because I am an applicant for travel support - now that the list of successful applicants is finalized, I can do. Cheers, Roberto On 30.06.2019, at 22:23, John Laprise <jlaprise@gmail.com <mailto:jlaprise@gmail.com> > wrote: That’s fine but should be taken up by the ATLAS III programming committee. From: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org> > On Behalf Of Roberto Gaetano Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 4:44 AM To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org <mailto:evan@telly.org> > Cc: justine.chew.icann@gmail.com <mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com> ; CPWG <cpwg@icann.org <mailto:cpwg@icann.org> >; Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org <mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> > Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] Mission creep (was Re: Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes [...]) I wonder whether the ATLAS III in Montreal could be the opportunity to discuss and maybe refocus our strategic objectives. I agree with Evan that if we engage in discussions on topics where the user interest is not clear we take the risk of losing time and energy for things that, although important for others, are not in our priorities. But there is also another issue. If we do not have a clear focus on “what’s in for the users” we might have very diverging opinions on the topic, based on our very diverse personal opinions. This will automatically end up in a final statement that does not satisfy anybody, might sound contradictory, and at the end of the day does not even contribute substantially to the discussion that is taking place in ICANN. In summary, some risks, very little - if any - benefit. Moreover, running in circles without the chance to converge to a practical result makes Jonathan Zuck nervous 😀. Cheers, Roberto On 24.06.2019, at 19:01, Evan Leibovitch < <mailto:evan@telly.org> evan@telly.org> wrote: On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, < <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net> h.raiche@internode.on.net> wrote: I also concur Thanks to all for the support of this position. As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand. In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them. It wasn't an Alt-Large issue. I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance. As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant. At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified. Cheers, Evan (*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> CPWG@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( <https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy> https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service ( <https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos> https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). 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Dear Friends and Colleagues: Allow me to add a few comments to this thread, and to note with appreciation that the issue was presented to CPWG in Marrakech with balance and understanding. 1. It is evident that I have a rather broader view of the interests of Internet users than is the case for some of our colleagues. In short, the interests of final Internet users include consumer protection and the conditions of fair and transparent competition. In this case, the risks of consumer confusion and/or financial and fiscal fraud, fully justify the reservation, or close regulation of the ISO 4217 currency codes, as to which Registries would be eligible to apply for them. 2. The current status of this question in the PDP is that the co-leads of WT5 have formally referred the question to the PDP plenary because they doubt that these codes are geographical names within the scope of WT5. (A curious position in so far as all the currency codes are directly derived from the ISO3166 alpha2 country codes. Whereas the alpha3 country codes, equally so derived, are fully protected.) 3. ATLAS III? I trust that this issue will have been resolved one-way-or-another before the Montreal meeting. However, even should colleagues deem that the currency codes are not geographical names and/or are not of interest to final Internet users, I would still consider that the issue is of major importance for the PDP, GNSO and the ICANN Board. Best regards to you all CW PS: Pour memoire, I attach my original paper for CPWG on this matter.
On 24 Jun 2019, at 20:01, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2019 at 09:04, <h.raiche@internode.on.net <mailto:h.raiche@internode.on.net>> wrote: I also concur
Thanks to all for the support of this position.
As I get older, most of my thought processes these days start with "life's too short to dwell over the irrelevant". I didn't intentionally mean to pick on Christopher's issue to make this stand.
In the past, ALAC has indulged in this kind of mission-creep far too often and I confess to having been a part of that. We got way too deep into issues such as vertical integration, dot-brands and similar battles that have near-zero impact on end-users. In hindsight, I even think that the massive amount of work that ALAC did in promoting (new-gTLD) Applicant support -- an effort that I co-chaired -- was for the benefit of would-be registries and indirectly registrars, with little fallout beyond them.
It wasn't an Alt-Large issue.
I can bemoan the execution of the Applicant Support program but must now realize in hindsight that its failure really did not impact end-users one bit. Even had it succeeded, registrants would have benefited but the end-user impact would be negligible. Given the massive amount of person-hours spent on the program by myself, Avri, Tijani, Alice (from the GAC) and many others, this realization is disheartening. Others should learn from our errors and be encouraged to avoid similar paths of futile irrelevance.
As my penance I will do what I can going forward to repeat the end-user-relevance litmus test applied on currency-code TLDs to other ALAC issues and requests for comments, as they come forward. I invite others to be similarly vigilant.
At one time I recall that At-Large staff measured the success and effectiveness of ALAC by how many statements and comments it produced. That approach of measuring quantity rather than quality, in retrospect, was an awful mistake, and must be repudiated should it still exist(*). Let's be super selective in the topics of interest -- issues of trust, abuse, IDNs, access and safety, for example -- but do justice to them once identified.
Cheers, Evan
(*) Yet one more instance of the many ways in which At-Large-related metrics are awful and an impediment to our real effectiveness. The only metric that really matters is "how is ICANN better because we are here?" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
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Concur On 6/24/2019 6:18 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
I agree with Evan — there is no end-user interest here.
Greg
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 2:27 AM Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org <mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org>> wrote:
Agree with this in principle. We shouldn't take any stand without a specific end user interests. Is there one here?
Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org <http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org>
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org <mailto:evan@telly.org>> *Sent:* Monday, June 24, 2019 2:18:21 AM *To:* mail@christopherwilkinson.eu <mailto:mail@christopherwilkinson.eu> CW *Cc:* CPWG; justine.chew.icann@gmail.com <mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] Geographical Names and ISO 4217 alpha3 currency codes - CPWG discussion papers for Marrakech. Hi all.
TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC.
Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should *end-users* care at all if currency codes are protected or not?"
I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate *end-user*-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege.
Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to *end-users*, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us?
The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored.
I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD.
In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones *directly impacting end users* -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest.
Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation.
Cheers, Evan
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Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
-- Greg Shatan greg@isoc-ny.org <mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org> President, ISOC-NY /"The Internet is for everyone"/
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+1. I'm with Evan here. zScant end user interest or benefit. The At-Large posture should be sit on our hands. Carlton On Sun, 23 Jun 2019, 8:19 pm Evan Leibovitch, <evan@telly.org> wrote:
Hi all.
TL;DR: I don't care about currency codes in domains, and neither should ALAC.
Much as I appreciate the work Christopher has put into this issue, I am drawn to ask "why should *end-users* care at all if currency codes are protected or not?"
I mean this in all seriousness. Over the years ALAC has fought many battles about what domains are protected and which are not, but very few of these battles have had a legitimate *end-user*-interest component. I am proud to have been part of a PDP that helped protect Red Cross names because abuse of those names can clearly lead to fraud and even lost lives. In the same meetings I argued against spurious attempt of the International Olympic Committee to claim similar privilege.
Going forward I suggest that At-Large, as an activity to sustain its relevance on the ecosystem and reduce volunteer burnout, triage incoming issues so to concentrate FULLY on ramifications of ICANN actions to *end-users*, and not those of other constituencies already represented within ICANN. Registrants are already well represented through other vectors and perfectly capable of speaking in favour of their own interests, which do not always match those of end users. What value to se add by piling onto that? What does it do for us?
The fight over whether "USD", EUR" "JPY" etc ought to be protected is, in my mind, a fight between the domain industry and others who perceive of something to protect. Do they have a point or not? Convince me why I should care. I fail to see any end-user implications from whether the codes are banned, reserved, left as a free-for-all or ignored.
I take issue with Christopher's assertion, backed up by nothing concrete of which I am aware, that a Registry provides a public service. The public is neither a market for its services nor a source of its accountability. The public may be impacted by applicant and registry interactions with ICANN, registrars and registrants but I have yet to see how -- in the case of currency codes -- there is a public interest either for or against them being used in domains. IMO such codes are not particularly interesting, unique or unambiguous -- for instance, the code for the Canadian Dollar is, in geek circles, more known as the acronym for Content Delivery Networks as a currency. And "EUR" is as often used as an abbreviation for Europe as for Euro. Opportunity for misuse is no more than for any other TLD.
In all, while I'm sure that some in ICANN's vested interests find this topic wildly impactful, I remain unconvinced that end users give any care at all towards it (and thus that ICANN should waste any cycles on it). And perhaps, in this age of increase scrutiny, ALAC should concentrate on those areas actually mandated in its bylaws -- the ones *directly impacting end users* -- and stop taking sides in battles between factions and on issues in which we have no demonstrated interest.
Chris' papers may be quite complete -- maybe even compelling -- in the debate between those who care about whether or not currency codes should be reserved. I have yet to be convinced that end users should care either way -- THAT argument exists nowhere in the documentation.
Cheers, Evan
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Sigh. We don't now because we didn't consider this imminent. Now doing geo names. We'll keep an eye out for space Jonathan Zuck Executive Director Innovators Network Foundation www.Innovatorsnetwork.org<http://www.Innovatorsnetwork.org> ________________________________ From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:30:23 PM To: cpwg@icann.org Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Hello all, Vittorio will be in Marrakech. Could be an idea to invite him to whatever session we have on this topic, if we have one. Kindest regards, Olivier On 21/06/2019 12:13, Roberto Gaetano wrote: The presentation that Vittorio Bertola did at EuroDIG was very good. IMHO, he managed to present in an objective way the features of this technology and the pros and cons of its deployment. The material presented should be publicly available shortly, unless I am mistaken. I recommend that we use that as basis for further initiatives. Cheers, Roberto On 19.06.2019, at 21:28, Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org>> wrote: Hi Eduardo, I support your suggestion. Hadia On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, 3:38:28 PM GMT+2, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> wrote: My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation. The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level . -ed On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <Hadia@tra.gov.eg<mailto:Hadia@tra.gov.eg>> wrote: Hi All, Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading. Kind regards Hadia From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM To: Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco Cc: CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS Thank you Eduardo and Glenn. CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs<https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...> CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr... Kind regards Hadia On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks a lot Eduardo!!! Enviado desde mi iPhone El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com<mailto:eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com>> escribió: All: Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future. We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that). NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC. -ed -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- NOTICE: This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on._______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
+1 to recommendation! -Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 2:29 AM Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> wrote:
My recommendation to the CPWG is to take this and create an advice to the Board by presenting our opinions about this technology, indicate how the end-user is affected, possible way of implementing this technology from the ICANN perspective and point out posible ICANN policies or ICANN structural changes needed to cope with its implementation.
The topic is very hot and we should take the opportunity to steer this discussion within ICANN since for I have seen it can split the DNS system in many ways and capture the end-user at the application level .
-ed
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 4:18 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Hi All,
Going through the paper published by CENTR, depending on the means of implementation of DoH it could directly affect end users by limiting consumers choice and competition. Currently the users, if they wish could change the resolvers they are using. Again depending on the means of implementation, the browser companies, which are mainly 2-4 companies could have control over the traffic of the users and choose which resolvers they use. The paper raises many different questions and issues, like the possible impact on the multistakeholder model. In my opinion it is worth reading.
Kind regards
Hadia
*From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Hadia El Miniawi via CPWG *Sent:* Tuesday, June 18, 2019 2:59 PM *To:* Eduardo Diaz; Humberto Carrasco *Cc:* CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] NARALO Insight: DNS Over HTTPS
Thank you Eduardo and Glenn.
CENTR published yesterday a paper on DoH, the link is herewith
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs <https://centr.org/library/library/policy-document/centr-issue-paper-on-dns-o...>
CENTR Issue Paper on DNS over HTTPs
CENTR is the association of European coutry code top-level domain name registries. CENTR’s main purpose is to pr...
Kind regards
Hadia
On Monday, June 17, 2019, 3:37:05 PM GMT+2, Humberto Carrasco < hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks a lot Eduardo!!!
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 14-06-2019, a la(s) 13:25, Eduardo Diaz <eduardodiazrivera@gmail.com> escribió:
All:
Our region believes that this will become a hot topic within ICANN in the near future.
We invited Dan York from ISOC to explain this technology in layman's terms and to answer the following questions: [1] Will this affect the end-user? [2] Will this impact ICANN's remit?. Link to the video: https://youtu.be/c5CXaphNxU0 (Note: there is an approximate 1 minute gap around 9 minutes into the video. The rest of the video is OK after that).
NARALO Insights are a dedicated video series on Internet Governance concerns with a special onus on relevant and topical discussion at ICANN. Our goal is to have community experts exchange ideas and regional perspectives on current hot topics to augment policy discussions within ALAC.
-ed
--
*NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately.
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_______________________________________________ registration-issues-wg mailing list registration-issues-wg@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
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-- *NOTICE:* This email may contain information which is confidential and/or subject to legal privilege, and is intended for the use of the named addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose or copy any part of this email. If you have received this email by mistake, please notify the sender and delete this message immediately. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
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Working Group direct URL: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
participants (18)
-
Carlton Samuels -
cw＠christopherwilkinson.eu -
Eduardo Diaz -
Evan Leibovitch -
Greg Shatan -
h.raiche＠internode.on.net -
Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi -
Hadia El Miniawi -
John Laprise -
Jonathan Zuck -
José R. Lebrón -
Justine Chew -
mail＠christopherwilkinson.eu CW -
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond -
Roberto Gaetano -
Sebastien Bachollet -
Seun Ojedeji -
Vittorio Bertola