Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt
fyi -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100 From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> To: hrpc@irtf.org The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>). Apologies if you've seen this before. Cheers,
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt* *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>
A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the IETF repository.
Name:draft-iab-for-the-users Revision:01 Title:The Internet is for End Users Document date:2019-11-18 Group:iab Pages:11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
Abstract: This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
The IETF Secretariat
-- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/
At the moment, this draft RFC is narrowly focused on IETF, and how it prioritizes the interests of end users. (Or, as we would phrase it, the interests of the At Large community.) However I believe that there is already a suggestion that it might be broadened to include ICANN. I have no idea how far IETF's remit runs, and whether that is even an option. But if it is, At Large might wish to consider weighing in with a group opinion, in addition to whatever individual opinions some of us might offer. Bill Jouris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:18 AM, avri doria<avri@acm.org> wrote: fyi -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100 From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> To: hrpc@irtf.org The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>). Apologies if you've seen this before. Cheers,
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt* *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>
A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the IETF repository.
Name:draft-iab-for-the-users Revision:01 Title:The Internet is for End Users Document date:2019-11-18 Group:iab Pages:11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
Abstract: This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
The IETF Secretariat
-- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/
Dear Bill, all, knowing how many feel in the IETF community, asking the IETF to broaden this document to include ICANN will be met with opposition. After all, this is an Internet Draft meant for the IETF Process. One bit did, however, make me smile. I quote: End users are not necessarily a homogenous group; they might have different views of how the Internet should work, and might occupy several roles, such as a seller, buyer, publisher, reader, service provider and consumer. An end user might be browsing the Web, monitoring remote equipment, playing a game, video conferencing with colleagues, sending messages to friends, or performing an operation in a remote surgery theatre. They might be "at the keyboard", or represented by software indirectly (e.g., as a daemon). "End users might be represented by software indirectly". A "daemon" is an automated program that runs tasks in the background of a computer. Thus this paragraph appears to note that some "end users" could be represented by a piece of software". I wonder how many people in At-Large are actually pieces of software? Should we subject members to a Turing Test? :-) Kindest regards, Olivier On 07/12/2019 18:27, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote:
At the moment, this draft RFC is narrowly focused on IETF, and how it prioritizes the interests of end users. (Or, as we would phrase it, the interests of the At Large community.) However I believe that there is already a suggestion that it might be broadened to include ICANN.
I have no idea how far IETF's remit runs, and whether that is even an option. But if it is, At Large might wish to consider weighing in with a group opinion, in addition to whatever individual opinions some of us might offer.
Bill Jouris
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...>
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:18 AM, avri doria <avri@acm.org> wrote:
fyi
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100 From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>> To: hrpc@irtf.org <mailto:hrpc@irtf.org>
The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>).
Apologies if you've seen this before.
Cheers,
> Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>> > *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt* > *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT > *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net> <mailto:mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>> > > > A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name:draft-iab-for-the-users > Revision:01 > Title:The Internet is for End Users > Document date:2019-11-18 > Group:iab > Pages:11 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt > <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt> > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01 > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01 > > Abstract: > This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider > end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org > <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
> > The IETF Secretariat >
-- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/
_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Recently, in informal talks at NASIG 2019 and then formally in a session at ICANN 66, I said the following: We are the ones who are defending the interests of the end users, but the end users are those who have no idea that ICANN exists , ALAC or someone who defends their interests on the Internet. Are those who have a problem with your domain, or with your internet provider that charges a differential fee for the same service, or with your identity that was stolen via the Internet, or who sees that Amazon wants a domain similar to your region , or several more problems than any of us can imagine. But who does not know where to start claiming, we do, that is why we defend their interests and we are also end users Never can an end user be represented by software or anything other than a person who knows the rights that the end user has. I think we should explain this a bit to those who still have doubts ... Kind regards Alberto De: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> en nombre de Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Fecha: miércoles, 11 de diciembre de 2019, 20:47 Para: "b_jouris@yahoo.com" <b_jouris@yahoo.com>, "avri@acm.org" <avri@acm.org>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Asunto: Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i Dear Bill, all, knowing how many feel in the IETF community, asking the IETF to broaden this document to include ICANN will be met with opposition. After all, this is an Internet Draft meant for the IETF Process. One bit did, however, make me smile. I quote: End users are not necessarily a homogenous group; they might have different views of how the Internet should work, and might occupy several roles, such as a seller, buyer, publisher, reader, service provider and consumer. An end user might be browsing the Web, monitoring remote equipment, playing a game, video conferencing with colleagues, sending messages to friends, or performing an operation in a remote surgery theatre. They might be "at the keyboard", or represented by software indirectly (e.g., as a daemon). "End users might be represented by software indirectly". A "daemon" is an automated program that runs tasks in the background of a computer. Thus this paragraph appears to note that some "end users" could be represented by a piece of software". I wonder how many people in At-Large are actually pieces of software? Should we subject members to a Turing Test? :-) Kindest regards, Olivier On 07/12/2019 18:27, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote: At the moment, this draft RFC is narrowly focused on IETF, and how it prioritizes the interests of end users. (Or, as we would phrase it, the interests of the At Large community.) However I believe that there is already a suggestion that it might be broadened to include ICANN. I have no idea how far IETF's remit runs, and whether that is even an option. But if it is, At Large might wish to consider weighing in with a group opinion, in addition to whatever individual opinions some of us might offer. Bill Jouris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:18 AM, avri doria <avri@acm.org> wrote: fyi -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100 From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> To: hrpc@irtf.org The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>). Apologies if you've seen this before. Cheers,
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt* *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>
A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the IETF repository.
Name:draft-iab-for-the-users Revision:01 Title:The Internet is for End Users Document date:2019-11-18 Group:iab Pages:11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
Abstract: This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
The IETF Secretariat
-- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I guess the IETF when speaking about users being represented by a software, they do not really mean "represented" but they mean a software doing a certain job on behalf of the users. They are speaking from a pure technical point of view, that allows them when considering end users in their technical decisions not to ignore this aspect. I like how they defined end users from a broader perspective where they said "the end user of a protocol to manage routers is not the router administrator, it is the people using the network that the router operates within" I think this draft is good and necessary start Hadia From: CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Soto Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:30 AM To: Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond; b_jouris@yahoo.com; avri@acm.org; CPWG Subject: Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i Recently, in informal talks at NASIG 2019 and then formally in a session at ICANN 66, I said the following: We are the ones who are defending the interests of the end users, but the end users are those who have no idea that ICANN exists , ALAC or someone who defends their interests on the Internet. Are those who have a problem with your domain, or with your internet provider that charges a differential fee for the same service, or with your identity that was stolen via the Internet, or who sees that Amazon wants a domain similar to your region , or several more problems than any of us can imagine. But who does not know where to start claiming, we do, that is why we defend their interests and we are also end users Never can an end user be represented by software or anything other than a person who knows the rights that the end user has. I think we should explain this a bit to those who still have doubts ... Kind regards Alberto De: CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> en nombre de Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Fecha: miércoles, 11 de diciembre de 2019, 20:47 Para: "b_jouris@yahoo.com" <b_jouris@yahoo.com>, "avri@acm.org" <avri@acm.org>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Asunto: Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i Dear Bill, all, knowing how many feel in the IETF community, asking the IETF to broaden this document to include ICANN will be met with opposition. After all, this is an Internet Draft meant for the IETF Process. One bit did, however, make me smile. I quote: End users are not necessarily a homogenous group; they might have different views of how the Internet should work, and might occupy several roles, such as a seller, buyer, publisher, reader, service provider and consumer. An end user might be browsing the Web, monitoring remote equipment, playing a game, video conferencing with colleagues, sending messages to friends, or performing an operation in a remote surgery theatre. They might be "at the keyboard", or represented by software indirectly (e.g., as a daemon). "End users might be represented by software indirectly". A "daemon" is an automated program that runs tasks in the background of a computer. Thus this paragraph appears to note that some "end users" could be represented by a piece of software". I wonder how many people in At-Large are actually pieces of software? Should we subject members to a Turing Test? :-) Kindest regards, Olivier On 07/12/2019 18:27, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote: At the moment, this draft RFC is narrowly focused on IETF, and how it prioritizes the interests of end users. (Or, as we would phrase it, the interests of the At Large community.) However I believe that there is already a suggestion that it might be broadened to include ICANN. I have no idea how far IETF's remit runs, and whether that is even an option. But if it is, At Large might wish to consider weighing in with a group opinion, in addition to whatever individual opinions some of us might offer. Bill Jouris Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...> On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:18 AM, avri doria <avri@acm.org><mailto:avri@acm.org> wrote: fyi -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100 From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net<mailto:mnot@mnot.net>> To: hrpc@irtf.org<mailto:hrpc@irtf.org> The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>). Apologies if you've seen this before. Cheers,
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt* *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net<mailto:mnot@mnot.net> <mailto:mnot@mnot.net<mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>>
A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the IETF repository.
Name:draft-iab-for-the-users Revision:01 Title:The Internet is for End Users Document date:2019-11-18 Group:iab Pages:11 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt <https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
Abstract: This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org <http://tools.ietf.org/>.
The IETF Secretariat
-- Mark Nottingham https://www.mnot.net/ _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
It's definitely a good thing that the IAB and the IETF community acknowledge the need to prioritize the interests of "End Users" over other interested parties. " In these situations, when one of those parties is an "end user" of the Internet - for example, a person using a Web browser, mail client, or another agent that connects to the Internet - the Internet Architecture Board argues that the IETF should favor their interests over those of parties." This statement aligns with the goals of our ICANN At-Large community. If At-Large does decide to take a position and comment on this RFC, I'd suggest making a change to Section 5. IANA Considerations. The current statement "This document does not require action by IANA." is accurate. However, it might be a good idea to add a sentence which acknowledges ICANN's At-Large remit to focus on "End User Interests" since ICANN now runs IANA. It might be beneficial to document the connection between the At-Large community and the IETF community at this point in the document. Cheers! David On Thu, Dec 12, 2019 at 7:50 AM Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi < Hadia@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
I guess the IETF when speaking about users being represented by a software, they do not really mean "represented" but they mean a software
doing a certain job on behalf of the users. They are speaking from a pure technical point of view, that allows them when considering end users
in their technical decisions not to ignore this aspect. I like how they defined end users from a broader perspective where they said "the end user of a protocol to manage routers is not the router administrator, it is the people using the network that the router operates within"
I think this draft is good and necessary start
Hadia
*From:* CPWG [mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Alberto Soto *Sent:* Thursday, December 12, 2019 2:30 AM *To:* Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond; b_jouris@yahoo.com; avri@acm.org; CPWG *Subject:* Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i
Recently, in informal talks at NASIG 2019 and then formally in a session at ICANN 66, I said the following: We are the ones who are defending the interests of the end users, but the end users are those who have no idea that ICANN exists , ALAC or someone who defends their interests on the Internet. Are those who have a problem with your domain, or with your internet provider that charges a differential fee for the same service, or with your identity that was stolen via the Internet, or who sees that Amazon wants a domain similar to your region , or several more problems than any of us can imagine. But who does not know where to start claiming, we do, that is why we defend their interests and we are also end users
Never can an end user be represented by software or anything other than a person who knows the rights that the end user has.
I think we should explain this a bit to those who still have doubts ...
Kind regards
Alberto
*De: *CPWG <cpwg-bounces@icann.org> en nombre de Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> *Fecha: *miércoles, 11 de diciembre de 2019, 20:47 *Para: *"b_jouris@yahoo.com" <b_jouris@yahoo.com>, "avri@acm.org" < avri@acm.org>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Asunto: *Re: [CPWG] Fwd: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-i
Dear Bill, all,
knowing how many feel in the IETF community, asking the IETF to broaden this document to include ICANN will be met with opposition. After all, this is an Internet Draft meant for the IETF Process.
One bit did, however, make me smile. I quote:
End users are not necessarily a homogenous group; they might have different views of how the Internet should work, and might occupy several roles, such as a seller, buyer, publisher, reader, service provider and consumer. An end user might be browsing the Web, monitoring remote equipment, playing a game, video conferencing with colleagues, sending messages to friends, or performing an operation in a remote surgery theatre. They might be "at the keyboard", or represented by software indirectly (e.g., as a daemon).
"End users might be represented by software indirectly". A "daemon" is an automated program that runs tasks in the background of a computer. Thus this paragraph appears to note that some "end users" could be represented by a piece of software". I wonder how many people in At-Large are actually pieces of software? Should we subject members to a Turing Test? :-) Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 07/12/2019 18:27, Bill Jouris via CPWG wrote:
At the moment, this draft RFC is narrowly focused on IETF, and how it prioritizes the interests of end users. (Or, as we would phrase it, the interests of the At Large community.) However I believe that there is already a suggestion that it might be broadened to include ICANN.
I have no idea how far IETF's remit runs, and whether that is even an option. But if it is, At Large might wish to consider weighing in with a group opinion, in addition to whatever individual opinions some of us might offer.
Bill Jouris
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...>
On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:18 AM, avri doria
<avri@acm.org> <avri@acm.org> wrote:
fyi
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [hrpc] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2019 10:29:15 +1100 From: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> To: hrpc@irtf.org
The IAB wanted to give this draft wider exposure to folks than just those on architecture-discuss; comment / feedback welcome (here, or on the draft issues list at <https://github.com/intarchboard/for-the-users/issues>).
Apologies if you've seen this before.
Cheers,
Begin forwarded message:
*From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt* *Date: *18 November 2019 at 11:43:38 am AEDT *To: *"Mark Nottingham" <mnot@mnot.net <mailto:mnot@mnot.net>>
A new version of I-D, draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Mark Nottingham and posted to the IETF repository.
Name:draft-iab-for-the-users Revision:01 Title:The Internet is for End Users Document date:2019-11-18 Group:iab Pages:11 URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01..txt
<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-for-the-users-01.txt> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-for-the-users/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-for-the-users-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iab-for-the-users Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-for-the-users-01
Abstract: This document explains why the IAB believes the IETF should consider end users as its highest priority concern, and how that can be done.
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Il 2019-12-12 15:24 David Mackey ha scritto:
It's definitely a good thing that the IAB and the IETF community acknowledge the need to prioritize the interests of "End Users" over other interested parties.
I already commented on the IETF mailing lists, but one of the problems I have with this draft is that it is not at all clear whether by "end users" they mean "individual end users". The first draft (-00) explicitly included commercial companies that operate at the edge of the network, i.e. Google, Facebook and the likes, among the "end users" whose interests should be prioritised by the IETF over others. This draft is less clear on what it means, but it sometimes mentions "individual end users" and some other times "end users", as if they were two different things. This worry is also reinforced by the paragraph in section 4.2 that says that the interests of web browsers are aligned with those of the end users, which seems to imply that the interests of browser makers should be prioritised over those of other companies. I am all in favour of prioritising the actual people that use the Internet, but I am scared by the risk that some companies could try to exploit this document to pursue their own business interests claiming that they are the same as those of the users. Ciao, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> now blogging & more at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
participants (7)
-
Alberto Soto -
avri doria -
Bill Jouris -
David Mackey -
Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi -
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond -
Vittorio Bertola