Good evening: This is a formal request to place on the agenda of tomorrow night's meeting the question of IANA/PIR relations with the five RIRs. (a) What is the authority of IANA/PIR over the allocation of IP address blocks by the RIRs? Reading between the lines of recent reports (I'll stand correted): (b) a single IPv4 address is today worth 50$ US. Who created this asset in the first place? (wasn't IPv6 supposed to resolve that problem?) (c) what guarantees are in place so that RIR IPv4 blocks assigned to local ISPs are effectively held available, exclusively, for use by present and future users and service providers IN THE AREA SSIGNED TO THE CORRESPONDING RIR. Otherwise, ICANN will have to deal with an extra-territorial 'gray market' in IPv4 addresses. A point that will not have escaped the notice of participants in the forthcoming IGF. I would be grateful - albeit at short notice - if an operational representative of IANA/PIR could be invited to join toorrow night's CPWG. Best regards to you all Christopher Wilkinson

On 18 Sep 2023, at 17:56, ICANN At-Large Staff via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

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Olivier: I am quie comfortable with postponing the discussion for a week, assuming that the Mauritius Court's injunction holds meanwhile. Thankyou for taking this seriously CW

On 20 Sep 2023, at 11:41, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:

Dear Christopher,

thank you for your request. Today's CPWG agenda is already completely full and I suspect it might be hard for staff to arrange for an IANA representative to be on the call at such short notice. May I suggest we reserve some time on next week's call for this? Also should a representative from ASO / NRO be invited too?

Incidentally, when you say PIR I assume you mean PTI not PIR?

Kindest regards,

Olivier

On 19/09/2023 22:51, lists--- via CPWG wrote:

...

Good evening:

This is a formal request to place on the agenda of tomorrow night's meeting the question of IANA/PIR relations with the five RIRs.

(a) What is the authority of IANA/PTI over the allocation of IP address blocks by the RIRs?

Reading between the lines of recent reports (I'll stand correted):

(b) a single IPv4 address is today worth 50$ US. Who created this asset in the first place? (wasn't IPv6 supposed to resolve that problem?)

(c) what guarantees are in place so that RIR IPv4 blocks assigned to local ISPs are effectively held available, exclusively, for use by present and future users and service providers IN THE AREA SSIGNED TO THE CORRESPONDING RIR. Otherwise, ICANN will have to deal with an extra-territorial 'gray market' in IPv4 addresses. A point that will not have escaped the notice of participants in the forthcoming IGF.

I would be grateful - albeit at short notice - if an operational representative of IANA/PTI could be invited to join toorrow night's CPWG.

Best regards to you all

Christopher Wilkinson

...

On 18 Sep 2023, at 17:56, ICANN At-Large Staff via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> <mailto:cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

**If you require a dial out or need to state an apology, please contact At-Large staff at staff@atlarge.icann.org <mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org> with your preferred number***

Dear All,

The next At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call is scheduled for Wednesday, 20 September 2023 at 19:00 UTC for 90 mins,

For other times: https://tinyurl.com/bd7eu4rw

The agenda (to be updated) and call details can be found at: https://community.icann.org/x/qwAFE

Zoom Room: https://icann.zoom.us/j/765717566?pwd=UTJCdWRSZVdJNEhOYW02OVBqQVQ1Zz09 / Passcode: #CPWG2345*

Real time transcription (RTT) available at (subject to availability): https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN

ADIGO Conference Bridge: EN, ES & FR: 3535 (subject to availability)

Toll-free access number (US and Canada): 800 550 6865

Other toll-free numbers: https://www.adigo.com/icann

At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Wiki Space: https://community.icann.org/x/jYDpB

If you require a dial-out please contact At-Large staff at: staff@atlarge.icann.org <mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org>

Thank you. Kind Regards,

At-Large Staff ICANN Policy Staff in support of the At-Large Community Website: atlarge.icann.org <https://atlarge.icann.org/> Facebook: facebook.com/icann <https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>atlarge <https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge> Twitter: @ <https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>ICANNAtLarge <https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge> _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org <mailto:CPWG@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html

On 19/09/2023 21:51, lists--- via CPWG wrote:

(c) what guarantees are in place so that RIR IPv4 blocks assigned to local ISPs are effectively held available, exclusively, for use by present and future users and service providers IN THE AREA SSIGNED TO THE CORRESPONDING RIR. Otherwise, ICANN will have to deal with an extra-territorial 'gray market' in IPv4 addresses.  A point that will not have escaped the notice of participants in the forthcoming IGF.

As Michele and Olivier have explained, Christopher, The IPv4 addresses are finite and IPv6 has not yet replaced them. At a more granular level, the country for an IPv4 address or even a range of addresses can be changed. This is often done for operational reasons such as a large multinational cable TV ISP owning a large range of addresses assinging addresses to their national cable TV operators. This often causes problems for services like Netflix and Amazon Prime when their IP detection lists aren't up to date. Hosting service providers (HSPs) will often enable a customer to change the country location for their IP(s) if they are targeting the market in a particular country. Facebook, for example, relabels US IP addresses according to country market. Amazon also has multiple presences in various countries but ultimately most of its IP addresses are US ranges. The same happens with HSPs with data centres or servers in different countries. The AFRINIC situation may be the basis for the question. The Seychelles IP space had been largely acquired and this has skewed ownership. The Seychelles gTLD domain names and websites footprint by country is an extreme example of the issue. This is what the Seychelles gTLDs footprint looks like when using the standard delegated lists of IPs available from the RIRs: All gTLDs - Locally Hosted - Externally Hosted - gTLD Websites 303 2 250 3,294,444 This is what it looks like at a more precise level. All gTLDs - Locally Hosted - Externally Hosted - gTLD Websites 303 2 250 4,192 The 'All gTLDs' figure is based on hosters associated with the country. That brings up another issue with splitting IP addresses over countries. Many hosting service provlders operate internationally and they have adjacent markets (Ireland/UK, Belgium/Holland, Belgium/France, Germany/Austria, USA/Canada etc). Restricting IP addresses to regions (as in Regional IP Registries) may look good on paper. The reality of how IP addresses are used and subnetted or allocated is complex. That said, AFRINIC's situation is a major issue. It is almost an example of the tragedy of the commons in that IPv4 addresses were initially freely available but now have acquired a monetary value due to their scarcity. Regards...jmcc -- ********************************************************** John McCormac * e-mail: jmcc@hosterstats.com MC2 * web: http://www.hosterstats.com/ 22 Viewmount * Domain Registrations Statistics Waterford * Domnomics - the business of domain names Ireland * https://amzn.to/2OPtEIO IE * Skype: hosterstats.com ********************************************************** -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

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