Re: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting
Dear Lars and all, Thank you for summarising status and discussions, Lars. A good starting point. Please find some comments from .no. Kind regards, Annebeth Annebeth B. Lange Head of Legal and Policy UNINETT Norid AS P.O.Box 6979 St. Olavs plass NO-0130 Oslo annebeth.lange@uninett.no<mailto:annebeth.lange@uninett.no> Mobile: +47 959 11 559 From: <ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@icann.org<mailto:lars.hoffmann@icann.org>> Date: Thursday 31 March 2016 14:16 To: "ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>" <ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>> Subject: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear all, Due to scheduling issues, we are going to move our next meeting from 4 April to Monday 11 April, 21:00 UTC. A separate invitation will go out. Attached you find again the latest version of the paper presented in Marrakech - feel free to comment on or off list or present your comments during the call. Best wishes, Lars
Dear colleagues of the ctn-crosscom WG, I hope my email finds you well. Firstly, I would like to express my sincere apologies for not being able to be in Marrakech with you. I think that you had a difficult work to do and I would like to congratulate you for your efforts and your constructive ideas. Furthermore, I would like to thank Lars for summarising the status and for producing the strawman document, which is a good starting point for discussions, as Annebeth mentioned. However, I think that there are some points that should be handled very carefully, as they may result to political uncertainty and instability of the process. Therefore, please accept my comments and suggestions in the attached file. In addition, I am sending you again the Greek response to the CTN-crosscom questionnaire on 3-character codes, just to refresh your memory. I will be happy to discuss the issue further with you during the conference call on Monday. Kind regards, Panos/GREECE Panagiotis Papaspiliopoulos Accredited Representative of Greece to the GAC of ICANN Senior Policy Advisor - Telecommunications Expert Hellenic Ministry of Infrastructure, Transport & Networks General Secretariat of Telecommunications & Post General Directorate of Telecommunications & Post 2, Anastaseos Str. Papagos, Athens, GR-10191 Greece tel: +30 210 650 8538 fax: +30 210 650 8533 email: p.papaspil[at]yme.gov.gr _____ From: ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Annebeth Lange Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2016 11:26 AM To: Lars Hoffmann; ctn-crosscom@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear Lars and all, Thank you for summarising status and discussions, Lars. A good starting point. Please find some comments from .no. Kind regards, Annebeth Annebeth B. Lange Head of Legal and Policy UNINETT Norid AS P.O.Box 6979 St. Olavs plass NO-0130 Oslo annebeth.lange@uninett.no Mobile: +47 959 11 559 From: <ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@icann.org> Date: Thursday 31 March 2016 14:16 To: "ctn-crosscom@icann.org" <ctn-crosscom@icann.org> Subject: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear all, Due to scheduling issues, we are going to move our next meeting from 4 April to Monday 11 April, 21:00 UTC. A separate invitation will go out. Attached you find again the latest version of the paper presented in Marrakech - feel free to comment on or off list or present your comments during the call. Best wishes, Lars
Dear All, Good morning, I hope this email finds you well. First of all I wish to thank you for having welcomed me into this group, and for the great work that has been done on this topic. As a relative newcomer to the DNS Industry and TLD world , this experience has proven both enlightening and interesting. Second, I would like to share with you the view of EURid regarding the StrawWoman paper and the eventual release of Alpha-3 codes: The .eu domain name, administered by EURid, is a unique case in the ISO 3166-1 standard and in the broader discussion of three character codes as top level domains. Because the European Union is not a country, it is not formally included in ISO 3166-1, but for practical reasons the ISO 3166/MA has reserved the two-letter combination EU for the purpose of identifying the European Union within the framework of ISO 3166-1. The .eu TLD exists and functions within a strict framework of EU regulations, none of which include the possibility of delegating additional European Union Top Level Domains outside of the .eu in scripts of other EU official languages. Indeed, these regulations aim to ensure a clear, unique and established web presence for the EU, the EEA and its residents. However in the case of three-letter combinations, the EUR ISO code is already used within the ISO 4127 currency codes and at this time, no ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 combination exists for the European Union. Thus the opening of the ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 list for gTLD registration would impact individual Member States, but as of now does not refer to the Union as a whole. With regards to some of the points proposed in the StrawWoman Paper, I do agree with Panos that even if ISO codes are not legally binding, they are more often than not associated in some form with the countries they are abbreviations for. Thus releasing them as gTLDs can cause user confusion and false association. With regards to the precedent set by .com, I agree with Annebeth's statement that it could have "grandfather status" due to the period in which it was launched and does not necessarily set precedent for the release of all alpha-3 reserved codes. Thus, with regards to the topic itself, and in response to the StrawWoman paper, EURid does not support lifting the current protection of ISO-3166-1 alpha-3 country codes in the next round for new gTLDs, rather we support maintaining the status quo and the AGB ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 restriction. This view is based on the need to preserve a clearly demarcated space for ccTLDs to avoid user confusion and in keeping with the CWG's previous recommendations in relation to the use of ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes. Please do let me know if you have any questions, and I will be happy to answer them via email or over our next call. I look forward to being able to meet you all in person in Helsinki. Sincerely, Sebastien Sebastien Pensis International Relations Support Manager EURid Woluwelaan 150 1831 Diegem - Belgium TEL.: +32 (0)2 401 3026 FAX: +32 (0)2 401 27 51 MOB:+32 (0)470 10 55 95 sebastien.pensis@eurid.eu<mailto:sebastien.pensis@eurid.eu> http://www.eurid.eu<http://www.eurid.eu/> [facebook_icon_email]<https://www.facebook.com/EUregistry>[twitter_icon_email]<https://twitter.com/Euregistry> #2016euWA [cid:image001.jpg@01D1A480.0168F580] [email_sign_bootjetipleftcrop] Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Annebeth Lange Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 10:26 AM To: Lars Hoffmann; ctn-crosscom@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear Lars and all, Thank you for summarising status and discussions, Lars. A good starting point. Please find some comments from .no. Kind regards, Annebeth Annebeth B. Lange Head of Legal and Policy UNINETT Norid AS P.O.Box 6979 St. Olavs plass NO-0130 Oslo annebeth.lange@uninett.no<mailto:annebeth.lange@uninett.no> Mobile: +47 959 11 559 From: <ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@icann.org<mailto:lars.hoffmann@icann.org>> Date: Thursday 31 March 2016 14:16 To: "ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>" <ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>> Subject: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear all, Due to scheduling issues, we are going to move our next meeting from 4 April to Monday 11 April, 21:00 UTC. A separate invitation will go out. Attached you find again the latest version of the paper presented in Marrakech - feel free to comment on or off list or present your comments during the call. Best wishes, Lars Disclaimer: This email and any attachment hereto is intended solely for the person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email in error, please delete it and immediately contact the sender by telephone or email, and destroy any copies of this information. You should not use or copy it, nor disclose its content to any other person or rely upon this information. Please note that any views presented in the email and any attachment hereto are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of EURid. While all care has been taken to avoid any known viruses, the recipient is advised to check this email and any attachment for presence of viruses. http://www.eurid.eu/en/legal-disclaimer
Dear Sebastien, Thank you for your input. I suppose Lars will answer you about how to treat the input we receive on the Strawwoman. We also hope to have a meeting about this issue in Helsinki on Wednesday afternoon the 29th. I hope you will be there. Kind regards, Annebeth From: Sebastien Pensis Date: Monday 30 May 2016 at 11:13 To: Annebeth Lange, Lars Hoffmann, "ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>" Subject: RE: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear All, Good morning, I hope this email finds you well. First of all I wish to thank you for having welcomed me into this group, and for the great work that has been done on this topic. As a relative newcomer to the DNS Industry and TLD world , this experience has proven both enlightening and interesting. Second, I would like to share with you the view of EURid regarding the StrawWoman paper and the eventual release of Alpha-3 codes: The .eu domain name, administered by EURid, is a unique case in the ISO 3166-1 standard and in the broader discussion of three character codes as top level domains. Because the European Union is not a country, it is not formally included in ISO 3166-1, but for practical reasons the ISO 3166/MA has reserved the two-letter combination EU for the purpose of identifying the European Union within the framework of ISO 3166-1. The .eu TLD exists and functions within a strict framework of EU regulations, none of which include the possibility of delegating additional European Union Top Level Domains outside of the .eu in scripts of other EU official languages. Indeed, these regulations aim to ensure a clear, unique and established web presence for the EU, the EEA and its residents. However in the case of three-letter combinations, the EUR ISO code is already used within the ISO 4127 currency codes and at this time, no ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 combination exists for the European Union. Thus the opening of the ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 list for gTLD registration would impact individual Member States, but as of now does not refer to the Union as a whole. With regards to some of the points proposed in the StrawWoman Paper, I do agree with Panos that even if ISO codes are not legally binding, they are more often than not associated in some form with the countries they are abbreviations for. Thus releasing them as gTLDs can cause user confusion and false association. With regards to the precedent set by .com, I agree with Annebeth’s statement that it could have “grandfather status” due to the period in which it was launched and does not necessarily set precedent for the release of all alpha-3 reserved codes. Thus, with regards to the topic itself, and in response to the StrawWoman paper, EURid does not support lifting the current protection of ISO-3166-1 alpha-3 country codes in the next round for new gTLDs, rather we support maintaining the status quo and the AGB ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 restriction. This view is based on the need to preserve a clearly demarcated space for ccTLDs to avoid user confusion and in keeping with the CWG’s previous recommendations in relation to the use of ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes. Please do let me know if you have any questions, and I will be happy to answer them via email or over our next call. I look forward to being able to meet you all in person in Helsinki. Sincerely, Sebastien Sebastien Pensis International Relations Support Manager EURid Woluwelaan 150 1831 Diegem - Belgium TEL.: +32 (0)2 401 3026 FAX: +32 (0)2 401 27 51 MOB:+32 (0)470 10 55 95 sebastien.pensis@eurid.eu<mailto:sebastien.pensis@eurid.eu> http://www.eurid.eu<http://www.eurid.eu/> [facebook_icon_email]<https://www.facebook.com/EUregistry>[twitter_icon_email]<https://twitter.com/Euregistry> #2016euWA [cid:image001.jpg@01D1A480.0168F580] [email_sign_bootjetipleftcrop] Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Annebeth Lange Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 10:26 AM To: Lars Hoffmann; ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear Lars and all, Thank you for summarising status and discussions, Lars. A good starting point. Please find some comments from .no. Kind regards, Annebeth Annebeth B. Lange Head of Legal and Policy UNINETT Norid AS P.O.Box 6979 St. Olavs plass NO-0130 Oslo annebeth.lange@uninett.no<mailto:annebeth.lange@uninett.no> Mobile: +47 959 11 559 From: <ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@icann.org<mailto:lars.hoffmann@icann.org>> Date: Thursday 31 March 2016 14:16 To: "ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>" <ctn-crosscom@icann.org<mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org>> Subject: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear all, Due to scheduling issues, we are going to move our next meeting from 4 April to Monday 11 April, 21:00 UTC. A separate invitation will go out. Attached you find again the latest version of the paper presented in Marrakech – feel free to comment on or off list or present your comments during the call. Best wishes, Lars Disclaimer: This email and any attachment hereto is intended solely for the person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email in error, please delete it and immediately contact the sender by telephone or email, and destroy any copies of this information. You should not use or copy it, nor disclose its content to any other person or rely upon this information. Please note that any views presented in the email and any attachment hereto are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of EURid. While all care has been taken to avoid any known viruses, the recipient is advised to check this email and any attachment for presence of viruses. 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Dear Sebastian, all valid points but let's keep in mind: We are talking about territory names (SPAIN) and ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 codes (ESP) and ccTLD's (ES). You suggest that the allocation of a ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code might "cause user confusion and false association". So let me please divide this into two real case scenarios. Obviously per the AGB the prerequisite to the allocation of a 3166-1 alpha-3 code, but also the allocation of a territory name (and in the case of the applicant I am initiating in the U.S. it is a 3166-1 alpha-3 code AND a territory name) is to have the relevant Government's letter of non-objection! So you are talking about an applicant who is in possession of such a letter of non-objection; because ONLY then that application would be accepted by ICANN. Two case scenarios: 1. The said Government is relatively incompetent and not aware that the application is going to be confusing! 2. The said Government is competent and decides that it intentionally DESIRES an affiliation between the 3166-1 alpha-3 code and its territory name, I completely agree with you: ICANN should make law that keeps Governments from unwittingly creating confusion for the Internet user and the ccTLD operator! Having said that: I have in mind a few Governments that would have a SERIOUS vetting processes in place - as well as excellent, unquestionable expertise. These Governments would know PRECISELY what they are doing. They would WANT an association between the new ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code based gTLD and the country name! It would be the whole PURPOSE of the exercise. We (and the GAC) have now to weight between: 1. "Protecting" Governments from doing smth that harms their and their citizens interests 2. Providing any competent Government to exercise the "natural right" to use its own name on the top level (I am talking about territory names) So while I am all with you that we should protect Governments from damaging themselves - what simple process could be added that would allow scenario 2 to become reality? And how will the GAC react, when we tell them that we have to protect them from themselves - and can not allow them to decide each by themselves for their own territory name (I am talking about territory names primarily - like ".spain" - in some cases these are identical with ISO 3166 Alpha 3 codes). Protection is good - but quickly can extend to overprotection - even Tyranny! I am currently setting up individual meetings with relevant GAC members to discuss this very issue with them as well. There has to be a way for a nation like Spain to apply for ".esp" and or ".spain" - if the Government agrees to it, and the ccTLD operator has no objection! Thanks, Alexander Schubert From: ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Sebastien Pensis Sent: Monday, May 30, 2016 12:13 PM To: Annebeth Lange <annebeth.lange@uninett.no>; Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@icann.org>; ctn-crosscom@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear All, Good morning, I hope this email finds you well. First of all I wish to thank you for having welcomed me into this group, and for the great work that has been done on this topic. As a relative newcomer to the DNS Industry and TLD world , this experience has proven both enlightening and interesting. Second, I would like to share with you the view of EURid regarding the StrawWoman paper and the eventual release of Alpha-3 codes: The .eu domain name, administered by EURid, is a unique case in the ISO 3166-1 standard and in the broader discussion of three character codes as top level domains. Because the European Union is not a country, it is not formally included in ISO 3166-1, but for practical reasons the ISO 3166/MA has reserved the two-letter combination EU for the purpose of identifying the European Union within the framework of ISO 3166-1. The .eu TLD exists and functions within a strict framework of EU regulations, none of which include the possibility of delegating additional European Union Top Level Domains outside of the .eu in scripts of other EU official languages. Indeed, these regulations aim to ensure a clear, unique and established web presence for the EU, the EEA and its residents. However in the case of three-letter combinations, the EUR ISO code is already used within the ISO 4127 currency codes and at this time, no ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 combination exists for the European Union. Thus the opening of the ISO 3166-1 Alpha-3 list for gTLD registration would impact individual Member States, but as of now does not refer to the Union as a whole. With regards to some of the points proposed in the StrawWoman Paper, I do agree with Panos that even if ISO codes are not legally binding, they are more often than not associated in some form with the countries they are abbreviations for. Thus releasing them as gTLDs can cause user confusion and false association. With regards to the precedent set by .com, I agree with Annebeth's statement that it could have "grandfather status" due to the period in which it was launched and does not necessarily set precedent for the release of all alpha-3 reserved codes. Thus, with regards to the topic itself, and in response to the StrawWoman paper, EURid does not support lifting the current protection of ISO-3166-1 alpha-3 country codes in the next round for new gTLDs, rather we support maintaining the status quo and the AGB ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 restriction. This view is based on the need to preserve a clearly demarcated space for ccTLDs to avoid user confusion and in keeping with the CWG's previous recommendations in relation to the use of ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 codes. Please do let me know if you have any questions, and I will be happy to answer them via email or over our next call. I look forward to being able to meet you all in person in Helsinki. Sincerely, Sebastien Sebastien Pensis International Relations Support Manager EURid Woluwelaan 150 1831 Diegem - Belgium TEL.: +32 (0)2 401 3026 FAX: +32 (0)2 401 27 51 MOB:+32 (0)470 10 55 95 sebastien.pensis@eurid.eu <mailto:sebastien.pensis@eurid.eu> <http://www.eurid.eu/> http://www.eurid.eu <https://www.facebook.com/EUregistry> <https://twitter.com/Euregistry> #2016euWA Please consider the environment before printing this email. From: ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Annebeth Lange Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 10:26 AM To: Lars Hoffmann; ctn-crosscom@icann.org <mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear Lars and all, Thank you for summarising status and discussions, Lars. A good starting point. Please find some comments from .no. Kind regards, Annebeth Annebeth B. Lange Head of Legal and Policy UNINETT Norid AS P.O.Box 6979 St. Olavs plass NO-0130 Oslo <mailto:annebeth.lange@uninett.no> annebeth.lange@uninett.no Mobile: +47 959 11 559 From: <ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org <mailto:ctn-crosscom-bounces@icann.org> > on behalf of Lars Hoffmann <lars.hoffmann@icann.org <mailto:lars.hoffmann@icann.org> > Date: Thursday 31 March 2016 14:16 To: "ctn-crosscom@icann.org <mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org> " <ctn-crosscom@icann.org <mailto:ctn-crosscom@icann.org> > Subject: [Ctn-crosscom] Next Meeting Dear all, Due to scheduling issues, we are going to move our next meeting from 4 April to Monday 11 April, 21:00 UTC. A separate invitation will go out. Attached you find again the latest version of the paper presented in Marrakech - feel free to comment on or off list or present your comments during the call. Best wishes, Lars Disclaimer: This email and any attachment hereto is intended solely for the person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient or if you have received this email in error, please delete it and immediately contact the sender by telephone or email, and destroy any copies of this information. You should not use or copy it, nor disclose its content to any other person or rely upon this information. Please note that any views presented in the email and any attachment hereto are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of EURid. While all care has been taken to avoid any known viruses, the recipient is advised to check this email and any attachment for presence of viruses. 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Sebastien Pensis writes:
The .eu domain name, administered by EURid, is a unique case in the ISO 3166-1 standard and in the broader discussion of three character codes as top level domains. Because the European Union is not a country, it is not formally included in ISO 3166-1, but for practical reasons the ISO 3166/MA has the two-letter combination EU for the purpose of identifying the Eu European Union within the framework of ISO 3166-1.
Well, it is actually somewhat different (and less unique). The EU is one of the twelve exceptionally reserved alpha-2 codes. The reservation "Refers to European Union and reserved at the request of ISO 4217/MA (March 1998) for ISO 6166, Securities - International securities identification numbering system (ISIN)." <https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:code:3166:EU>. There about 50 reserved codes classified as Exceptionally, Transitionally, or Indeterminately reserved codes <http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes_glossary.html>, therefire EU is not really special in the framework of ISO. That the ICANN board allowed to use this reserved code as a ccTLD seems the an exception that they made on their ccTLD delegation rules.
The .eu TLD exists and functions within a strict framework of EU regulations, none of which include the possibility of delegating additional European Union Top Level Domains outside of the .eu in scripts of other EU official languages. Indeed, these regulations aim to ensure a clear, unique and established web presence for the EU, the EEA and its residents.
Nitpicking Note: EEA is not an ISO code.
However in the case of three-letter combinations, the EUR ISO code is already used within the ISO 4127 currency codes and at this time,
Yes, that is why they asked for EU so they could create EUR for the EURO. For an informal overview of 4127 codes, see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_4217>. The ISO home page is <http://www.iso.org/iso/home/standards/currency_codes.htm> and states: "The alphabetic code is based on another ISO standard, ISO 3166, which lists the codes for country names. The first two letters of the ISO 4217 three-letter code are the same as the code for the country name, and where possible the third letter corresponds to the first letter of the currency name." (So I got in the habit to joke about the EUR as the eu Rouble).
no ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 combination exists for the European Union.
Alpha-2 Codes reserved by the 3166 MA don't need to have an alpha-3 counterpart. jaap
participants (5)
-
Alexander Schubert -
Annebeth Lange -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Panagiotis Papaspiliopoulos -
Sebastien Pensis