Seun: I am glad with how this session is taking shape...lots of myths has been unmasked. Thanks Jordan Carter: Sure have, Seun. Jordan Carter: The great merit of independent counsel is that they'll say what they think without any baggage Brenden Kuerbis: Yeah! Jordan Carter: They are also better at simplifying and avoiding FUD better than people with an interest in the outcome Seun: It is my hope that we will determine scope of work here, by focusing on internal solution Seun: have to go for today...we followed up with the transcript Seun: thanks to the co-chairs and entire cwg Lise Fuhr: Bye Seun have a nice evening James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]: bye seun Avri Doria: what they have done, in a way, is give us a kits of various piece parts we can combine in the solution that suits the consensus best. We now know we can do it, just have to find the right slection to hit as many of our perceived needs as possible. Jonathan Robinson: Thanks Seun Matthew Shears: what's important is finding the solution that works best for this and the broader community and DNS stabiltiy etc. Matthew Shears: + 1 Avri -------------- (03/26/2015 11:41) -------------- Jordan Carter: I don't know why we would need to indemnify members as members Jordan Carter: indemnity applies to governors - the directors Robin Gross: In an ICANN bankruptcy, could members be liable? Jordan Carter: Avri: the trick is going to be ordering our needs, and understanding the tradeoffs in doing so. Thats' what my first question tried to suss out. Maybe badly. Jordan Carter: Don't incorporated bodies have limited liability in the United States? Jordan Carter: they certainly do in NZ -------------- (03/26/2015 11:51) -------------- Jordan Carter: Chris has just said something very interesting - that the stewardship should sit with ICANN, and this is more important than who operates the IANA functions. Matthew Shears: I don't think accountability to the community would be lost through the hybrid model Matthew Shears: if that were to occur -------------- (03/26/2015 11:56) -------------- Jordan Carter: This conversation is getting very complicated. Brenden Kuerbis: I think you vest the ability to seat the affiliate IANA board with the "community". And you give the ICANN (and possibly the RIRs, IETF) contract with affiliate IANA? -------------- (03/26/2015 11:58) -------------- Matthew Shears: yes - if IANA team A were not performing you could replace some of the personnel in it or replace it in whole Avri Doria: well we have already narrowed by talking both Internal and External Trusts off the table. Avri Doria: i do not think functional is enough without drawing the lines and creating a legal entity. we allegedly have functiona separation now and that is a fantasy. Matthew Shears: + 1 Avri -------------- (03/26/2015 12:03) -------------- jorge cancio GAC: the question is who can trigger the catapult in an internal option? Jordan Carter: One could add a layer to my thing - RZO -------------- (03/26/2015 12:04) -------------- Jordan Carter: (root zone operation) Jordan Carter: because actually at the moment, ICANN *does* "contract out" the operation of the root zone Jordan Carter: it instructs the operator, and we agreed today that the check / authorisation function in between those two layers can go Jordan Carter: I hope everyone understands from today's chat that THERE ARE NO SIMPLE MODELS. :-| Avri Doria: there are no real spearations betwee ICANN and IANA now. sam human resources, same budget, same offices, ... James Gannon [GNSO-NCSG]: +1 Jordan Jordan Carter: Avri: my point was that IANA doesn't operate the root Avri Doria: iana isn't even as separate as GDD Jordan Carter: It's funny. In Singapore 2014, we (.nz) proposed a strong separation of IANA would be a good thing -- we got rubbished. Jordan Carter: C'est la vie I spose :) Avri Doria: we supported you. Matthew Shears: yep Jordan Carter: It still helps in lots of ways, whether structural or functional Jordan Carter: but it doesn't deal with "who the steward is" - and tbh that question seems like the hardest part Jordan Carter: (functional is ''better'' in not creating yet another entity...) Chris Disspain: Jordan, if the community has good accountbaility mechanisms in ICANN can we not agree that the community ti the steward THROUGH ICANN? Jordan Carter: oh yes, that's the ICANN 3.0 that would be the precondition of ICANN as steward :-) Chris Disspain: Well arent we effectively making ICANN 3 in ccwg? Jordan Carter: Absolutely Chris Disspain: Jordan, who is the steward of .nz? Jordan Carter: InternetNZ is - under New Zealand law Chris Disspain: and the tech operator? Jordan Carter: NZRS, a wholly owned subsidiary company. Chris Disspain: exactly Jordan Carter: InternetNZ is a membership based organisatin - the members are sovereign, and are part of the local Internet community - so we have the 3.0 thing in place already Chris Disspain: agree Jordan Carter: the Internet community organises through our structure and changes the domain if required. Chris Disspain: yup Jordan Carter: If that set of relationships was the same in ICANN, there wouldn't be a provlem here to fix... :-) Chris Disspain: so if we can put in plae the new shiny accountability mechanisms then we're OK aren't we? Jordan Carter: Chris, in Clinton's immortal words, it all depends on the meaning of "the". Brenden Kuerbis: but deisgning accoutnability for policy making , and designing accoutnability for just IANA functions two totally different exercises Avri Doria: i think that is we put our minds to finding the compromise point tomorrow, we could make great progress. Cheryl Langdon-Orr: been a very productive day though. but agree with @chris Jordan Carter: A compromise point or a narrowing to fewer options Avri Doria: Jordan, as an alternative to finding a draft solution, that would be second best. Matthew Shears: we don't have 3.0 and won't have it until the shiny new accountbaility are proven Chris Konstantinos Komaitis: yes it would be good if tomorrow we can start categorizing the various proposals under their legal standing: easy, complex, more complex, very complex, etc. -------------- (03/26/2015 12:16) -------------- Konstantinos Komaitis: or something along those lines