First, I agree with
Ayden. Second, why are we focused on this rather trivial cost
cutting exercise? Did we ever focus on any such budget
exercise when we did the RDS group? No, indeed we did not, we
ragged the puck for well over a year and a half and made so
little progress that the Board felt justified in imposing an
interim policy. To me, this entire exercise is already under
a cloud of suspicion in terms of the legitimacy of the process
in a so-called multi-stakeholder community, partly because of
that and for other reasons too tedious for me to enumerate.
Omitting the transcripts, which enable everybody to follow the
process without having to listen to [tedious] mp3s, is a huge
mistake. In my opinion, the lack of transparency of the EWG
on which I served also cast an unnecessary cloud of doubt over
a lot of otherwise good work, let us not repeat that mistake
in this exercise.
ICANN needs to
demonstrate its accountability in its processes. Transcripts
are a cheap way of doing that.
Stephanie Perrin
On 2018-07-01 05:26, Ayden Férdeline
wrote:
I believe the $300 figure is for rush recordings; I was
advised several months ago that it was $75/hour for less
urgent transcripts that take 48-72 hours to prepare.
In any case, the community is not responsible for
procurement and we do not have a budget to work with. We are
only being asked to identify resources required, and an
essential resource _is_ meeting transcription for all calls.
It has been past practice to use transcription in the GNSO’s
PDPs, the CCWG, and the Review Teams. This EPDP is of no less
interest to the community and of no less importance.
Accountability demands transparency, and transparency
requires thorough and easily retrievable records. ICANN’s
commitment to transparency in its bylaws was not incumbent on a
price point.
Ayden
Sent from ProtonMail
Mobile
Marika,
While you described what Org usually have done,
there is no need actual IT need to do it this way.
Transcripts could be made based on other recordings,
including AC ones.
Rubens
If
I am not mistaken, the costs for transcripts are
approx. 300 USD per hour. It should be taken into
account though that if transcripts are expected
with the current quality and turnaround time, it
also means that all calls will need to be held on
a Verizon phone bridge which is more expensive
than a non-operator PGI call which is currently
used for smaller calls such as sub-team or work
track meetings for which no transcripts are
requested. As such, if you decide to request that
transcripts are made available for all EPDP calls,
this will need to be called out in the ‘resources
expected to be available’ section as it is not
part of the standard services.
Best
regards,
Marika
I
agree, transcripts don’t equate to transparency.
It would be helpful to understand the
cost and make a judgment about benefit v cost.
I think we’ve identified a number of
benefits and we should also take into account
that we expect alternates for the EPDP to keep
up to date with events and it seems to me that
transcripts could be the most efficient way to
do this.
Donna
Transparency
does not mean transcripts.
If
you want to argue in favour of
transcripts you隆炉re
welcome to do so, but there隆炉s
a big difference
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Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit
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Ireland
Company No.: 370845
From: Ayden
F篓娄rdeline <icann@ferdeline.com>
Sent: Saturday,
June 30, 2018 3:45:19 PM
To: Michele
Neylon - Blacknight
Cc: Stephanie
Perrin; epdp-dt@icann.org
Subject: Re:
[Epdp-dt] Working Methods
While I think it
is reasonable to ask how much
transcription costs, ultimately
transparency is an institutional concept
mandated by our own Operating Procedures
and a conceptual component of the
principle of democracy. The legitimation
of any authority, including that of
ICANN, requires decisions that are
reached, including the political and
non-political objectives that feed into
these decisions, to be properly
understood and withstand scrutiny.
Scrutiny is impossible without detailed
and accessible records. This is
negotiable only up to a point. We can
negotiate over who does the transcripts
or how long they take to produce (and I
don't think they need to be fast-tracked
ordinarily), but we cannot negotiate
over whether transcripts are produced.
This EPDP will
attract a great level of interest and
scrutiny from across the ICANN
community. I think it is of the highest
importance for the credibility of the
GNSO that our agenda setting and
decision making processes be seen as
being as transparent as possible,
particularly in light of the attention
that this EPDP will generate.
漏漏漏 漏漏漏 漏Original
Message 漏漏 漏漏漏 漏 漏
We don隆炉t
have an actual cost though, do we?
Sent from
mobile so usual disclaimers
about typos etc apply
There are so many
advantages...transcripts are
searchable, you can do analytics
on them with easily available
tools (Discourse analysis,
e.g.), you can copy and put it
through google translate....a
matter that is rather basic in
terms of fundamental fairness to
non-english language speakers.
I think for the amount of money
we are blowing on belated
compliance with DP law, this is
peanuts.
cheers Stephanie
On 2018-06-29 14:16,
Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
Oh yes!
Specially for timing, I can read
insanely faster than I have to
listen to a recording (even if I
only have to listen to it
once).
A
question for our
multi-lingual
colleagues. Are
transcripts
better/easier for
non-English speakers
to review a meeting
than listening to
the recording?
If the
transcription was 隆掳cost effective隆卤 then
I wouldn隆炉t
have as much of an
issue with it, but
I隆炉d
prefer we had some
visibility on
costs before we
make a commitment
to it
A lot of
calls / meetings
have a lot of
spurious
discussions which
aren隆炉t
adding any value.
Of course there is
value in the
meetings overall,
but you should be
able to get that
from the minutes /
notes of the
meetings
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Business
Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93
X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
All cloud
services offer now
voice to text, and
ti takes just a
little bit of
money and a few
seconds of ai
computational
power:
The
problem is not the
transcription, but
the process ICANN
(still) uses for
transcriptions
Carlos Ra篓虏 l Guti篓 娄rrez
El
2018-06-28 16:10,
Martin Pablo Silva
Valent escribi篓庐:
I
agree with
Ayden that
transcript are
a useful
feature for
this kind of
work at icann.
And we already
have automated
transcript as
far as I know,
we can ask for
opinon to
staff towards
cost, but is
not intuitive
to me that
transcripts
are not worthy
in such a
special case.
The value for
transparency
and the
ability to
read debate is
also very
useful.
I
disagree with
the
transcription
of all
meetings. The
costs involved
with that are
disproportionately high and ICANN funds would be better directed
elsewhere
I
agree with
most of your
other points.
Hosting,
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& Domains
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Blacknight
Internet
Solutions Ltd,
Unit
12A,Barrowside
Business
Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93
X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
I
would like to
request
several
revisions be
made to the
EPDP Working
Methods
please:
1) All
meetings
must be
recorded and
transcribed.
Please
revise this
text from:
In
addition to
the standard
services
provided to
GNSO PDP
Working Groups
such as policy
staff support,
mailing lists
and regular
conference
calls,
including
recording and
transcription
where needed
(frequency and
duration to be
decided by
EPDP team),
the EPDP team
will need
appropriate
support to:
All
calls of the
EPDP must be
recorded and
transcribed,
and said
recordings and
call
transcriptions
must be
publicly
accessible
from the ICANN
website.
Standard
support
offered to
GNSO PDP
Working
Groups,
including but
not limited to
the provision
of a wiki
space,
archived
mailing lists,
and conference
call
facilities,
will be
required. In
addition, the
EPDP will need
appropriate
support to:
2)
Google Docs
may only
be
used in
conjunction
with Google
Vault.
Please
revise the
text from:
the
EPDP Team
should
consider which
tools provide
the best
flexibility to
facilitate
online
collaboration,
such as the
wiki and
Google docs.
the
EPDP Team
should
consider which
tools provide
the best
flexibility to
facilitate
online
collaboration,
but it must do
so in
accordance
with the
principles of
accountability
and
transparency
that are so
important to
the GNSO. If
Google Docs or
other G Suite
products are
used, it
must
be
used in
conjunction
with Google
Vault, which
logs data for
archival
purposes.
Similarly, if
other tools
are used, they
may be used
only if they
preserve
information to
a level that
meets or
exceeds
eDiscovery
standards in
California,
being the
location of
ICANN's
headquarters.
3)
Translation of
executive
summary and
recommendations
of the initial
report for
public
comment, and
of the entire
final report,
into ICANN's
official
languages.
The
substantive
work of the
EPDP must be
translated
into ICANN's
official
languages in
order to
provide
non-English-fluent
stakeholders
with an equal
level of
access to
review the
work of the
EPDP. For the
initial
report(s),
this must
consist of the
executive
summary and
recommendations,
and for the
final report,
this must be a
translation of
the entire
report.
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