Lisbon Results and Follow-Up
Dear all: Apologies for the duplicates you will receive, but it has been requested that all emails about Lisbon follow-up should go to both lists. To recap: * the meetings in Lisbon were successful! The EURALO has been brought into existence at last! * an MoU was agreed and was signed by ICANN and by 10 ALSes. It has been posted for public comment, as have all MoUs, and that notice can be seen at: http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-3-30mar07.htm * Bylaws and a procedure for electing the initial EURALO board and ALAC reps were also agreed in Lisbon. Whilst the dates have been the subject of a good deal of debate, the Lisbon agreed procedure has not been criticised which is of course very positive. This can be found at: https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?nominations_2007 * Any ALS that wishes to digitally sign the MoU can do so until the end of the public comment period on 20th April by sending the text at the bottom of this email to me, copied to the discuss list at euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org. Obviously, I'm sure those who signed would prefer that all ALSes join them. * Any ALS who does NOT wish to sign is still automatically a member of the EURALO. See Section 3 of the MoU, at https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi/european-ralo-mou-en-FINAL.pdf?action=... * If the EURALO CHOSE to do so, it COULD decide to limit some - but definitely not all - of the rights of the ALSes who do NOT agree to be bound by the MoU. Please see the MoU, Section 6, Clause 4, at the above link. IF such limitations were to be proposed, those ALSes who have signed the MoU would almost certainly have the right to vote on that PARTICULAR measure, and those which have not signed or agreed to be bound would almost certainly NOT have the right to vote on that PARTICULAR proposal. However: * At the present time, NO LIMITATIONS ON NON-SIGNING ALSes HAVE BEEN PROPOSED OR AGREED. Therefore, ALL ALSes IN EUROPE HAVE FULL RIGHTS TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL ASPECTS OF THE EURALO. There has been some question about this raised in previous emails. I hope this reinforces that there is nothing to worry about. * Discussion on voting and nominations is now open on the euro-discuss list. TEXT TO SEND TO DIGITALLY SIGN THE MOU (please fill in the bracketed sections as relevant]: --- I hereby consent for the [ALS name here] to be bound by the terms of the Memorandum of Understanding between ICANN and the Signing Organisations in the European Region as if I were personally signing the document. [Name] [Title / Position] [Date] --- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
Hi Nick, dear all, I would like to sign the MoU in the name of Comunica-ch (Swiss platform on the information society) but we are not a recognized ALS yet. After all the discussions about roles and rights of individuals at ALS / EURALO, I followed so far, I am still not sure whether individuals "attached to the cause of EURALO" can sign the MoU? Thanks for clarifications, Regards, Wolf Nick Ashton-Hart wrote Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:15:56 :
Dear all:
Apologies for the duplicates you will receive, but it has been requested that all emails about Lisbon follow-up should go to both lists.
To recap:
* the meetings in Lisbon were successful! The EURALO has been brought into existence at last!
* an MoU was agreed and was signed by ICANN and by 10 ALSes. It has been posted for public comment, as have all MoUs, and that notice can be seen at: http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-3-30mar07.htm
* Bylaws and a procedure for electing the initial EURALO board and ALAC reps were also agreed in Lisbon. Whilst the dates have been the subject of a good deal of debate, the Lisbon agreed procedure has not been criticised which is of course very positive. This can be found at: https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?nominations_2007
* Any ALS that wishes to digitally sign the MoU can do so until the end of the public comment period on 20th April by sending the text at the bottom of this email to me, copied to the discuss list at euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org. Obviously, I'm sure those who signed would prefer that all ALSes join them.
* Any ALS who does NOT wish to sign is still automatically a member of the EURALO. See Section 3 of the MoU, at https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi/european-ralo-mou-en-FINAL.pdf?action=...
* If the EURALO CHOSE to do so, it COULD decide to limit some - but definitely not all - of the rights of the ALSes who do NOT agree to be bound by the MoU. Please see the MoU, Section 6, Clause 4, at the above link. IF such limitations were to be proposed, those ALSes who have signed the MoU would almost certainly have the right to vote on that PARTICULAR measure, and those which have not signed or agreed to be bound would almost certainly NOT have the right to vote on that PARTICULAR proposal. However:
* At the present time, NO LIMITATIONS ON NON-SIGNING ALSes HAVE BEEN PROPOSED OR AGREED. Therefore, ALL ALSes IN EUROPE HAVE FULL RIGHTS TO PARTICIPATE IN ALL ASPECTS OF THE EURALO. There has been some question about this raised in previous emails. I hope this reinforces that there is nothing to worry about.
* Discussion on voting and nominations is now open on the euro-discuss list.
TEXT TO SEND TO DIGITALLY SIGN THE MOU (please fill in the bracketed sections as relevant]: ---
I hereby consent for the [ALS name here] to be bound by the terms of the Memorandum of Understanding between ICANN and the Signing Organisations in the European Region as if I were personally signing the document.
[Name] [Title / Position] [Date]
--- Regards,
Nick Ashton-Hart PO Box 32160 London N4 2XY United Kingdom UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460 Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135 mobile: +44 (7774) 932798 Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
comunica-ch phone +41 79 204 83 87 www.comunica-ch.net
Wolf, We could not find the time in Lisbon to come up with a proposal that would address everyone's concerns. We decided to draft a well-thought out proposal to be submitted to the GA at a later stage. I suggested that it could be drafted by a working group, rather than through general cacophony (sorry, I should say "discussion"). Our immediate goal now is to (s)elect a board and representatives to the ALAC. Patrick Wolf Ludwig wrote, On 04/04/2007 13:33:
I would like to sign the MoU in the name of Comunica-ch (Swiss platform on the information society) but we are not a recognized ALS yet. After all the discussions about roles and rights of individuals at ALS / EURALO, I followed so far, I am still not sure whether individuals "attached to the cause of EURALO" can sign the MoU? Thanks for clarifications,
Patrick Vande Walle wrote:
Wolf,
We could not find the time in Lisbon to come up with a proposal that would address everyone's concerns.
Dear Patrick, your reply make it sound as if individual membership and voting rights for individuals would be just a marginal issue. It is not! So far, at Large has been the only space in ICANN were individuals could principally get a say. Moreover, individual membership has been one of the constitutive principles justifying an additional group of stakeholders in ICANN. All the ISOC chapters have the choice to join other constituencies in ICANN. Individuals don't have that choice. It continues to amaze me that those who had a chance to attend the meeting in Lisbon made the decision to exclude individual voting rights at least for the time being. You must have known that this decision is not only controversial but neither reflects the history of At Large membership in ICANN nor the wish of other members of EURALO who couldn't attend the meeting. best, jeanette We decided to draft a well-thought
out proposal to be submitted to the GA at a later stage. I suggested that it could be drafted by a working group, rather than through general cacophony (sorry, I should say "discussion").
Our immediate goal now is to (s)elect a board and representatives to the ALAC.
Patrick
Wolf Ludwig wrote, On 04/04/2007 13:33:
I would like to sign the MoU in the name of Comunica-ch (Swiss platform on the information society) but we are not a recognized ALS yet. After all the discussions about roles and rights of individuals at ALS / EURALO, I followed so far, I am still not sure whether individuals "attached to the cause of EURALO" can sign the MoU? Thanks for clarifications,
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.i...
Jeanette, Please re-read my reply to Wolf. I said "we did not have the time" to come up with a proposal in Lisbon. So, the sooner you will come up with a proposal, the sooner we can go forward on this. But it should not be a blocking factor. Patrick Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
Dear Patrick, your reply make it sound as if individual membership and voting rights for individuals would be just a marginal issue. It is not!
So far, at Large has been the only space in ICANN were individuals could principally get a say.
Jeanette Hofmann ha scritto:
It continues to amaze me that those who had a chance to attend the meeting in Lisbon made the decision to exclude individual voting rights at least for the time being. You must have known that this decision is not only controversial but neither reflects the history of At Large membership in ICANN nor the wish of other members of EURALO who couldn't attend the meeting.
I think that we should have an individual membership, at least to include those - like you - that want to participate in individual capacity. I don't expect to have 100'000 or even 100 individual members, but still I would like to offer this possibility. However, the spirit in Lisbon was: as the best is enemy of the good, let's do things one step at a time. So let's finalize the MoU and Bylaws, start with basic operations, and discuss the rest over time. Personally, I think that we desperately need to grow a much better attitude in working together, tolerating our differences and trusting each other - and this is not your or someone's fault, it is everyone's responsibility. I am trying to do my best in proposing compromises that I honestly think can be acceptable to all. As I said, I appreciated how many people in Lisbon adopted that approach and I would like to see it propagate to this mailing list. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
Hi Vittorio and all, Vittorio Bertola wrote Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:18:21:
I think that we should have an individual membership, at least to include those - like you - that want to participate in individual capacity. I don't expect to have 100'000 or even 100 individual members, but still I would like to offer this possibility.
However, the spirit in Lisbon was: as the best is enemy of the good, let's do things one step at a time. So let's finalize the MoU and Bylaws, start with basic operations, and discuss the rest over time.
Personally, I think that we desperately need to grow a much better attitude in working together, tolerating our differences and trusting each other - and this is not your or someone's fault, it is everyone's responsibility. I am trying to do my best in proposing compromises that I honestly think can be acceptable to all. As I said, I appreciated how many people in Lisbon adopted that approach and I would like to see it propagate to this mailing list.
I appreciate Vittorio's explanations and hope we take the right directions in EURALO's near future. Thanks to all of you who completed MoU and Bylaws in Lisbon which was a lot of work and an important prerequisite. But I hope we will find time and energy now to concentrate more on "enabling" or "encouraging" factors and details ... To Vittorio's appeal for more trust - which I strongly support! - I would like to add: a precondition for trust is transparence! Because (I think it was Werner who mentioned it) not all of us are ICANN-ALS professionals dealing on a full-time level with these issues. Hope we will find more time now for content rather than procedures. Wishing all of you some pleasant Eastern (holi-)days! Regards, Wolf comunica-ch phone +41 79 204 83 87 www.comunica-ch.net
participants (5)
-
Jeanette Hofmann -
Nick Ashton-Hart -
Patrick Vande Walle -
Vittorio Bertola -
Wolf Ludwig