Hi, I'm a third person who can't make it Monday, and I will be traveling from Tuesday. The following week's more open. Could we clarify something? A number of people here have expressed support for Vittorio's proposal to seat all the candidates and dispense with voting, and nobody has objected. If that's the path we're on, do we need to rush to organize a phone call to discuss the nominations? Or might it be better to lay the groundwork for later, more programmatic call, e.g. on what we want to do first in what time frame etc? Best, Bill On 4/26/07 9:50 AM, "Rudi Vansnick" <rudi.vansnick@isoc.be> wrote:

Hi Nick,

I'll not be able as I'm away for a few days (holidays). I will be back on the 2nd.

Best regards

Rudi Vansnick/ / <http://www.isoc-ecc.org/>

Nick Ashton-Hart schreef:

...

We can do that yes - I'm back from holiday now (though I have come down with a cold!) and I'm copying in Susie.

...

From reading the list, why don't we aim for:

30th April, 1600 UTC (1700 London, 1800 Brussels/Paris/Geneva). Proposed length of call: 1 Hour.

Please reply if this does NOT work for you (with an alternate that would).

On 25/04/07, Patrick Vande Walle <patrick@vande-walle.eu> wrote:

...

Hello Nick,

According to the process detailed on the Wiki, we should have a teleconference to discuss the nominations.

Can the ICANN staff suggest a possible date and make the necessary arrangements ?

Thanks a lot,

Patrick

Annette Muehlberg wrote:

...

What do you think about the following schedule:

- Sunday 22nd end of nomination period for ALAC candidates

- Monday 23rd of April opening the discussion on candidates for ALAC and the Board trying to find a consensus.

- Friday, 4th of May, end of discussion - hopefully in consensus - on the ALAC candidates.

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*********************************************************** William J. Drake drake@hei.unige.ch Director, Project on the Information Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO Graduate Institute for International Studies Geneva, Switzerland http://hei.unige.ch/psio/researchprojects/Drake.html ***********************************************************

Hi, Oops, sorry, too much mail this morning to think clearly. Ok then could we do the call one or two hours later, e.g. 19:00 or 20:00 CET? Then I might be able to make it, just have to get away from something.... If we're going to do this, it would make sense for anyone who absolutely can't make the call, e.g. Wolfgang and Rudi, to share their views here in advance. BD On 4/26/07 11:24 AM, "Patrick Vande Walle" <patrick@vande-walle.eu> wrote:

Bill,

We have 3 candidates for 2 ALAC posts. So yes, I think we need to discuss who will be selected, or elected if we cannot find a consensus during the teleconference.

William Drake wrote:

...

Could we clarify something? A number of people here have expressed support for Vittorio's proposal to seat all the candidates and dispense with voting, and nobody has objected.

All, maybe we can reach a consensus by online discussion and do not need a telefon conference as it seems that many people have a problem with the timing. I think all three ALAC candidates are well qualified. To make the choice of two out of the three: I could not decide yet between Sebastian and Patrick but I can already agree on Veronica. The reason why I think that all of us can support her: We agreed to promote diversity. In comparison to the other candidates (and myself as already excisting ALAC member) Veronica comes from a region wiht a very different political and infrastructural background. Apart from that, I had the chance to get to know her at our two ALAC outreach meetings in Prague and Athens as well as a very good speaker at the ICANN Studienkreis on the issue of domain name registration and new services in Central and Eastern Europe. Veronica expressed strong interest to help to get individual internet users, especially from developing countries, involved in ICANN decision making processes and to do outreach work in Eastern Europe. Indeed, the fact that she is fluent in Romanian, English and Russian is very helpful in doing so. I think she would be an asset for the ALAC team. Annette

I am not so sure we can reach a consensus, either through an online discussion or a telephone conference either. The fact that very few people participate in the discussion is a main issue. A consensus between a limited number of individuals would be problematic in terms of democracy. Similarly, we have no consensus as to the requirements we would expect the candidates to match. Are we selecting on the base of gender and passport, or do we expect people to have a proven experience in ICANN matters? Speaking as a voter, I cannot decide between Sébastien and myself, and wish I will not have to. We both participated in a lot of ICANN meetings, work groups and organized parallel events closely linked to ICANN. As such, we have an equal market value, so to say. Regarding Veronica, I have not had the pleasure to meet her during the ICANN meetings I attended over the last four years. I could not find much information on ICANN-related mailing lists or Google either. I only have Wolfgang and Annette's comments. Based on the paper she wrote, I think she has a great potential for the future, though and would encourage her to join the Euralo board. I am convinced that the ALAC needs members who can be fully operational from day one. Given the complexity of the ICANN environment, this is no simple task and experience does count. Patrick Annette Muehlberg wrote:

All,

maybe we can reach a consensus by online discussion and do not need a telefon conference as it seems that many people have a problem with the timing.

I think all three ALAC candidates are well qualified.

To make the choice of two out of the three:

I could not decide yet between Sebastian and Patrick but I can already agree on Veronica.

-- Patrick Vande Walle Check my blog at http://patrick.vande-walle.eu Jabber me at patrick@vande-walle.eu

Patrick:

I am convinced that the ALAC needs members who can be fully operational from day one. Given the complexity of the ICANN environment, this is no simple task and experience does count.

Thomas: Yes, experience counts, but then again, I've seen people join ALAC with relatively little prior ICANN experience, and do a lot of good work. I've also seen people roam around ICANN with more hats than anyone cares to count, and with difficulties to reconcile different agendas (and yes, we've had that on ALAC). Therefore, I think a combination of a relative newcomer with high potential (and, I understand, rather deep involvement with ccTLD operations) with a more experienced participant would be optimal. Wolfgang: In last years NomCom we picked Jon Bing from the Oslo Internet Institute as a person who never attended ICANN meetings but with a big potential to bring fesh ideeas to the GNSO. Ask Bruce Tomkin what he thinks now after one year of Jons contirbutions. His interventions and actions are excellent. If only "CANN experience"wuld have been counted he never woould hzave been selected by NomCm and the ICANn community would have lost a very potential contributor.

On 2007-04-29 21:06:06 +0200, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:

...

/To be frank, I'd find it a strange move to have two folks wearing ISOC hats as EURALO's choices to ALAC. I'd rather see that more balanced; in practice, that would mean that we should appoint Veronica and either Sebastien or you./

/I see nothing in the MoU or bylaws that support this vision.

I was arguing from an overall political perspective. I was *not* talking about the MOU, so your response is a distraction. (Which I find disappointing.) Cheers, -- Thomas Roessler <roessler@does-not-exist.org>

Dear Nick, dear all, I agree with Jeanette and would like to add, that Veronica applied already in January and the ALAC, who discussed proposing Veronica as one of the candidates to the ICANN Board did not get a hint that there would be any restriction concerning non-ALS members. Anyhow, Veronica could join any time the network new media (an accredited european ALS) if not being an ALS member would be a serious problem, though I do not think it is. Instead of creating bureaucracy we should be practical: it is the same situation as with the EURALO board - if the EURALO selects a person, this person means something to the EURALO members and this is what counts. It is enough that an ALS nominates a candidate, this candidate should not be forced to join an ALS for formal reasons (this procedure might raise the number of members of the nnm, which I very much appreciate ;-) but it is absolutely not neccessary). As far as I know, the NomCom is not restricted to select a person who is a member of an ALS, the EURALO should not be so either. Best greetings Annette Jeanette Hofmann schrieb:

Hi,

no matter what bylaws and MoU say, I support a broad interpretation of diversity including gender, geo-political culture and political perspectives. If we have the opportunity to cover several dimensions of diversity, why would we not do this? Regarding experience with ICANN, if experience would principally count more than diversity, old hands would always prevail and newcomers never had a chance. Moreover, ALAC like the ICANN board can and should combine a mixture of experienced and new members. Jeanette

Thomas Roessler schrieb:

...

On 2007-04-29 21:06:06 +0200, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:

...

...

/To be frank, I'd find it a strange move to have two folks wearing ISOC hats as EURALO's choices to ALAC. I'd rather see that more balanced; in practice, that would mean that we should appoint Veronica and either Sebastien or you./

/I see nothing in the MoU or bylaws that support this vision.

I was arguing from an overall political perspective. I was *not* talking about the MOU, so your response is a distraction. (Which I find disappointing.)

Cheers,

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Dear Patrick, dear all, FYI: In January, there was a public announcement: "ICANN At-Large Advisory Committee Announces Vacancy Volunteer Needed From Europe for the interim period of time until European Regional At-Large Organisation is set up **Individuals from these regions interested in serving on the ALAC are encouraged to contact the Committee by 16th January 2007.** ICANN's Board will appoint an individual from Europe to fill this vacancy, after receiving recommendation from the ALAC. ..." Statements of interest were sent to the ALAC and of course the ALAC discussed incoming statements...(and finally decided to postpone and delegate to the EURALO). What I pointed out, is that at that time we were not aware of a request for ALS membership of candidates and it was neither mentioned as a request in the public announcement itself. All I am saying: We were not aware of that fact and I must have overlooked that line in the MOU. And I did so because I did not expect it there. And I did not expect it, because I consider it to be unnecessary. I think that the rule we have chosen for EURALO board members is absolutely sufficent. And obviously the representative from the accredited ALS "Medienstadt Leipzig" who nominated the lady from Moldova shared this unawareness ;-) But we do not have to talk about this anymore concerning the current procedure, because the respective candidate already became a member of an european ALS. At some point though, we should discuss a change of the bylaws and MOU in this respect to avoid unnecessary bureaucracy in the future. The type of discussion we are undergoing now is exactly what frightens most individuals and volunteer organisations who are a member or willing to join the EURALO. They certainly prefer to discuss ICANN policies - I am one of them. Best Annette Patrick Vande Walle schrieb:

Annette Muehlberg wrote:

...

Veronica applied already in January and the ALAC, who discussed proposing Veronica as one of the candidates

AFAIK, two candidates stood up in January: Dessi and myself. If the ALAC proposed anyone else in a totally non-transparent manner, it clearly means that the ALAC does not care about what the ALSes suggest. This is exactly the sort of attitude we expect the new ALAC representatives to fight against.

...

Instead of creating bureaucracy we should be practical:

The only way to be practical is to respect the letter of the documents we have signed. When I sign a document, I commit to respect it, whether it suits me or not. And if I had a fundamental disagreement, I'd resign.

Further, this is not only an agreement between ourselves ALSes. It is also an agreement with another party, who could reasonably feel damaged by us "interpreting creatively" or breaking, as you want, the agreement we signed.

...

it is the same situation as with the EURALO board

It is different. We explicitly agreed there could be non ALS members on the board.

...

As far as I know, the NomCom is not restricted to select a person who is a member of an ALS, the EURALO should not be so either.

The Nomcom obeys to other rules. One of the things we should ask in the nomcom review is to give to the RALOs the possibility to elect all 15 members of the ALAC. But this is another story.

Patrick

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Hi Jaqueline, this is exactly what I pointed out below, she could join any time an european ALS and this is what she did (see my mail late April 30, 2007: "...But we do not have to talk about this anymore concerning the current procedure, because the respective candidate already became a member of an european ALS.") ;-) best Annette Jacqueline A. Morris schrieb:

Hi Annette

In January, the EURALO MoU was not in force, the EURALO didn't exist. As an interim member, the Board could have appointed anyone in the world they wanted. But now, the rules of the MoU that you guys agreed to should be followed, I think.

Jacqueline

*From:* Annette Muehlberg [mailto:annette.muehlberg@web.de] *Sent:* Monday, April 30, 2007 10:15 AM *To:* Discussion for At-Large Europe; Nick Ashton-Hart ICANN *Subject:* Re: [EURO-Discuss] ALAC Candidates

Dear Nick, dear all,

I agree with Jeanette and would like to add, that Veronica applied already in January and the ALAC, who discussed proposing Veronica as one of the candidates to the ICANN Board did not get a hint that there would be any restriction concerning non-ALS members.

Anyhow, Veronica could join any time the network new media (an accredited european ALS) if not being an ALS member would be a serious problem, though I do not think it is.

Instead of creating bureaucracy we should be practical: it is the same situation as with the EURALO board - if the EURALO selects a person, this person means something to the EURALO members and this is what counts. It is enough that an ALS nominates a candidate, this candidate should not be forced to join an ALS for formal reasons (this procedure might raise the number of members of the nnm, which I very much appreciate ;-) but it is absolutely not neccessary). As far as I know, the NomCom is not restricted to select a person who is a member of an ALS, the EURALO should not be so either.

Best greetings

Annette

Jeanette Hofmann schrieb:

Hi,

no matter what bylaws and MoU say, I support a broad interpretation of diversity including gender, geo-political culture and political perspectives. If we have the opportunity to cover several dimensions of diversity, why would we not do this? Regarding experience with ICANN, if experience would principally count more than diversity, old hands would always prevail and newcomers never had a chance. Moreover, ALAC like the ICANN board can and should combine a mixture of experienced and new members. Jeanette

Thomas Roessler schrieb:

On 2007-04-29 21:06:06 +0200, Patrick Vande Walle wrote:

/To be frank, I'd find it a strange move to have two folks wearing

ISOC hats as EURALO's choices to ALAC. I'd rather see that more

balanced; in practice, that would mean that we should appoint

Veronica and either Sebastien or you./

/I see nothing in the MoU or bylaws that support this vision.

I was arguing from an overall political perspective. I was *not*

talking about the MOU, so your response is a distraction. (Which I

find disappointing.)

Cheers,

_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.i...

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Other question – if the ALS nominates the person, why wouldn’t the person be comfortable being a member of the ALS? It would be a little weird to accept being nominated by a group that I don’t want to be associated with. Jacqueline From: Annette Muehlberg [mailto:annette.muehlberg@web.de] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 10:15 AM To: Discussion for At-Large Europe; Nick Ashton-Hart ICANN Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] ALAC Candidates Dear Nick, dear all, I agree with Jeanette and would like to add, that Veronica applied already in January and the ALAC, who discussed proposing Veronica as one of the candidates to the ICANN Board did not get a hint that there would be any restriction concerning non-ALS members. Anyhow, Veronica could join any time the network new media (an accredited european ALS) if not being an ALS member would be a serious problem, though I do not think it is. Instead of creating bureaucracy we should be practical: it is the same situation as with the EURALO board - if the EURALO selects a person, this person means something to the EURALO members and this is what counts. It is enough that an ALS nominates a candidate, this candidate should not be forced to join an ALS for formal reasons (this procedure might raise the number of members of the nnm, which I very much appreciate ;-) but it is absolutely not neccessary). As far as I know, the NomCom is not restricted to select a person who is a member of an ALS, the EURALO should not be so either. Best greetings Annette Jeanette Hofmann schrieb: Hi, no matter what bylaws and MoU say, I support a broad interpretation of diversity including gender, geo-political culture and political perspectives. If we have the opportunity to cover several dimensions of diversity, why would we not do this? Regarding experience with ICANN, if experience would principally count more than diversity, old hands would always prevail and newcomers never had a chance. Moreover, ALAC like the ICANN board can and should combine a mixture of experienced and new members. Jeanette Thomas Roessler schrieb: On 2007-04-29 21:06:06 +0200, Patrick Vande Walle wrote: /To be frank, I'd find it a strange move to have two folks wearing ISOC hats as EURALO's choices to ALAC. I'd rather see that more balanced; in practice, that would mean that we should appoint Veronica and either Sebastien or you./ /I see nothing in the MoU or bylaws that support this vision. I was arguing from an overall political perspective. I was *not* talking about the MOU, so your response is a distraction. (Which I find disappointing.) Cheers, _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list HYPERLINK "mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.ican n.org HYPERLINK "http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists. icann.org"http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlar ge-lists.icann.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/782 - Release Date: 5/1/2007 2:10 AM

Rudi Vansnick ha scritto:

Hi Nick,

I'll not be able as I'm away for a few days (holidays). I will be back on the 2nd.

Me too - I think many in Europe are taking their only chance of a few days' break between Sunday 29th and Tuesday 1st (which is a holiday). I might be able to find a phone to receive a call where I am (visiting a friend in Munich) but I'd rather have the call on the 3rd or 4th, if possible. But I wouldn't mind missing the call either, if this is impossible. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------