Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. :
Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
I'm against signing any petition on change.org, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget- cuts-and-save-the-fellowship-program
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition on change.org <http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com <mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... <https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...>
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss>
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/>
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Well, I do not know why ICANN and registries do not sell domains only directly through e-shop, but endusers have to pay registrars who sell them on their web J Pozdrav/regards Nenad From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2018 14:15 To: Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://ceo.hosting/> https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> wrote: Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains <https://www.blacknight.com/> https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://ceo.hosting/> https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan < <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd> svg@milathan.ltd> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov < <mailto:andrei@rol.ru> andrei@rol.ru> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on <http://change.org/> change.org, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < <mailto:ocl@gih.com> ocl@gih.com>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier Crepin-Leblond Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: <https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...> https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: <http://www.euralo.org/> http://www.euralo.org -- Andrey Kolesnikov <http://ripn.net/> RIPN.NET _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: <http://www.euralo.org> http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: <http://www.euralo.org> http://www.euralo.org
Hi Nenad. I was planning to reply to you, but I can’t remember if I did - and I do not see track of it in my email logs. If I have already responded, please ignore this second message. The reason why registries do not sell domains directly is because the main reason why ICANN was created is to foster competition. This has been pretty effective, I should say, because before the introduction of registrars 20 years ago a .com domain name was costing $50 - including a $15 tax intended for Internet development. After the breaking of the NetSol monopoly (the ancestor of Verisign) the price dropped to around $7. That went to the benefit of the registrants. Going back to the old regime would also eliminate the variety of commercial proposals that the registrars offer to the market. In summary, the presence of an additional layer, the registrars, could seem to be a useless overhead but is as a matter of fact an essential element for the variety of the offers on the market and for the improvement of the consumer choice. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 15:58, Nenad Marinkovic <nenad@marinkovic.rs<mailto:nenad@marinkovic.rs>> wrote: Well, I do not know why ICANN and registries do not sell domains only directly through e-shop, but endusers have to pay registrars who sell them on their web ☺ Pozdrav/regards Nenad From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2018 14:15 To: Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/>
Dear Nenad: Roberto is right about this. I would add that the original regime facilitated neutrality of Registrars among Registries. I am not sure that is still valid since there are now hundreds of Registries some of which are still very small, and it is unlikely that all Registrars will offer all available Registries. Furthermore, the ICANN version of ‘vertical integration’ for new gTLDs, now allows Registrars to OWN Registries. (I opposed that at the time). I now fear that it is very likely that some Registrars will privilege the Registries that they own. A by-product of that anti-competitive change has been that some ccTLD Registries have indeed argued that they should now be allowed to act as their own Registrar, since they no longer trust the neutrality of their ‘independent’ Registrars. I hope that this is helpful Regards Christopher
On 3 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nenad. I was planning to reply to you, but I can’t remember if I did - and I do not see track of it in my email logs. If I have already responded, please ignore this second message. The reason why registries do not sell domains directly is because the main reason why ICANN was created is to foster competition. This has been pretty effective, I should say, because before the introduction of registrars 20 years ago a .com domain name was costing $50 - including a $15 tax intended for Internet development. After the breaking of the NetSol monopoly (the ancestor of Verisign) the price dropped to around $7. That went to the benefit of the registrants. Going back to the old regime would also eliminate the variety of commercial proposals that the registrars offer to the market. In summary, the presence of an additional layer, the registrars, could seem to be a useless overhead but is as a matter of fact an essential element for the variety of the offers on the market and for the improvement of the consumer choice. Cheers, Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 15:58, Nenad Marinkovic <nenad@marinkovic.rs <mailto:nenad@marinkovic.rs>> wrote:
Well, I do not know why ICANN and registries do not sell domains only directly through e-shop, but endusers have to pay registrars who sell them on their web J
Pozdrav/regards
Nenad
From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2018 14:15 To: Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
Roberto
There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc
If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. <> Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto
On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru <mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition onchange.org <http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com <mailto:ocl@gih.com>>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
: > Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... <https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...>
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
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Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/>
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Dear Nenad: Roberto is right about this. I would add that the original regime facilitated neutrality of Registrars among Registries. I am not sure that is still valid since there are now hundreds of Registries some of which are still very small, and it is unlikely that all Registrars will offer all available Registries.
Furthermore, the ICANN version of ‘vertical integration’ for new gTLDs, now allows Registrars to OWN Registries. (I opposed that at the time). I now fear that it is very likely that some Registrars will privilege the Registries that they own. A by-product of that anti-competitive change has been that some ccTLD Registries have indeed argued that they should now be allowed to act as their own Registrar, since they no longer trust the neutrality of their ‘independent’ Registrars.
I hope that this is helpful
Regards
Christopher
On 3 Mar 2018, at 17:34, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Nenad. I was planning to reply to you, but I can’t remember if I did - and I do not see track of it in my email logs. If I have already responded, please ignore this second message. The reason why registries do not sell domains directly is because the main reason why ICANN was created is to foster competition. This has been pretty effective, I should say, because before the introduction of registrars 20 years ago a .com domain name was costing $50 - including a $15 tax intended for Internet development. After the breaking of the NetSol monopoly (the ancestor of Verisign) the price dropped to around $7. That went to the benefit of the registrants. Going back to the old regime would also eliminate the variety of commercial proposals that the registrars offer to the market. In summary, the presence of an additional layer, the registrars, could seem to be a useless overhead but is as a matter of fact an essential element for the variety of the offers on the market and for the improvement of the consumer choice. Cheers, Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 15:58, Nenad Marinkovic <nenad@marinkovic.rs <mailto:nenad@marinkovic.rs>> wrote:
Well, I do not know why ICANN and registries do not sell domains only directly through e-shop, but endusers have to pay registrars who sell them on their web J
Pozdrav/regards
Nenad
From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight Sent: Friday, 23 February, 2018 14:15 To: Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
Roberto
There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc
If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ <https://www.blacknight.com/> https://blacknight.blog/ <https://blacknight.blog/> https://ceo.hosting/ <https://ceo.hosting/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. <> Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto
On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru <mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition onchange.org <http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com <mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: > Dear colleagues, > > on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. > > : >> Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. > > As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. > > You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" > On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: > https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... <https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...> > > The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? > > At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. > > Should EURALO sign the petition? > Should your ALS sign the petition? > > Kindest regards, > > Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond > EURALO Chair > > _______________________________________________ > EURO-Discuss mailing list > EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss> > > Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/>
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss <https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss>
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>
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Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>
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Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Dear Michele, in a bit of a rush at present, but re: why so many people funded to come to ICANN meetings, it is all part of building a balanced multistakeholder community. In fact some of the people that were funded to come were also from governments and they brought back their experience to their government, which had positive political implications back there. These implications cannot be calculated by exact science, like a return on investment. But they have had an impact in other fora such as on the ITU discussions, OECD, and government stances out there. As for funding people to go to non-ICANN events, there are two reasons: 1. the people that go to these non-ICANN events are the community face of ICANN and have managed to improve ICANN's image greatly through engaging with the rest of the world 2. the people that have gone to these non-ICANN events have managed to bring more people in the ICANN processes that ended up in leadership positions. In fact with the GDPR we have a case in point about why ICANN needs to engage out there: whilst GDPR development was going on in Brussels for several years, nobody at ICANN listened when community members pointed out that it was important to be not only aware but engage in the discussions. ICANN's failure to address this because it was too busy looking at its own self image of IANA Stewardship Transition & ICANN Accountability, has now put it in front of a serious problem, namely that it is completely unprepared a few months from enforcement. So OK now we're working on GDPR, but what else is out there, waiting to bite us? There is a continuum of more stuff coming our way and having community members out there as both lookouts and emissaries is way cheaper than having a department of over 50 staff working on this. In fact, supporting the community to perform this task is a very economical way to do it as you don't need to pay them salaries. But I do agree, though, that there should be improvements to the accountability of who is sent out there, with "bad actors", those who are using the system for tourism, being blacklisted so they do not continue to abuse the system. Kindest regards, Olivier On 23/02/2018 13:15, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought.
I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Date: *Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> *Cc: *S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Michele,
I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities.
This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
Roberto
There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc
If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> *Date: *Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 *To: *S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> *Cc: *Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others.
Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”.
Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/>
--
Andrey Kolesnikov
RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/>
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
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Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
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Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
BTW -- all of what I've said below are my own personal thoughts, not EURALO. On 23/02/2018 17:13, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
Dear Michele,
in a bit of a rush at present, but re: why so many people funded to come to ICANN meetings, it is all part of building a balanced multistakeholder community. In fact some of the people that were funded to come were also from governments and they brought back their experience to their government, which had positive political implications back there. These implications cannot be calculated by exact science, like a return on investment. But they have had an impact in other fora such as on the ITU discussions, OECD, and government stances out there. As for funding people to go to non-ICANN events, there are two reasons: 1. the people that go to these non-ICANN events are the community face of ICANN and have managed to improve ICANN's image greatly through engaging with the rest of the world 2. the people that have gone to these non-ICANN events have managed to bring more people in the ICANN processes that ended up in leadership positions.
In fact with the GDPR we have a case in point about why ICANN needs to engage out there: whilst GDPR development was going on in Brussels for several years, nobody at ICANN listened when community members pointed out that it was important to be not only aware but engage in the discussions. ICANN's failure to address this because it was too busy looking at its own self image of IANA Stewardship Transition & ICANN Accountability, has now put it in front of a serious problem, namely that it is completely unprepared a few months from enforcement. So OK now we're working on GDPR, but what else is out there, waiting to bite us? There is a continuum of more stuff coming our way and having community members out there as both lookouts and emissaries is way cheaper than having a department of over 50 staff working on this. In fact, supporting the community to perform this task is a very economical way to do it as you don't need to pay them salaries.
But I do agree, though, that there should be improvements to the accountability of who is sent out there, with "bad actors", those who are using the system for tourism, being blacklisted so they do not continue to abuse the system.
Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 23/02/2018 13:15, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought.
I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> *Date: *Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 *To: *Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> *Cc: *S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Michele,
I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities.
This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
Roberto
There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc
If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
Ireland Company No.: 370845
*From: *EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com <mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> *Date: *Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 *To: *S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd <mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> *Cc: *Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> *Subject: *Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others.
Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”.
Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/>
--
Andrey Kolesnikov
RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/>
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
Olivier Sorry if I wasn’t clear – I wasn’t referring solely to “community” people being sent to events – I was also referring albeit obliquely at both staff and board. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Olivier Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 18:13 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Dear Michele, in a bit of a rush at present, but re: why so many people funded to come to ICANN meetings, it is all part of building a balanced multistakeholder community. In fact some of the people that were funded to come were also from governments and they brought back their experience to their government, which had positive political implications back there. These implications cannot be calculated by exact science, like a return on investment. But they have had an impact in other fora such as on the ITU discussions, OECD, and government stances out there. As for funding people to go to non-ICANN events, there are two reasons: 1. the people that go to these non-ICANN events are the community face of ICANN and have managed to improve ICANN's image greatly through engaging with the rest of the world 2. the people that have gone to these non-ICANN events have managed to bring more people in the ICANN processes that ended up in leadership positions. In fact with the GDPR we have a case in point about why ICANN needs to engage out there: whilst GDPR development was going on in Brussels for several years, nobody at ICANN listened when community members pointed out that it was important to be not only aware but engage in the discussions. ICANN's failure to address this because it was too busy looking at its own self image of IANA Stewardship Transition & ICANN Accountability, has now put it in front of a serious problem, namely that it is completely unprepared a few months from enforcement. So OK now we're working on GDPR, but what else is out there, waiting to bite us? There is a continuum of more stuff coming our way and having community members out there as both lookouts and emissaries is way cheaper than having a department of over 50 staff working on this. In fact, supporting the community to perform this task is a very economical way to do it as you don't need to pay them salaries. But I do agree, though, that there should be improvements to the accountability of who is sent out there, with "bad actors", those who are using the system for tourism, being blacklisted so they do not continue to abuse the system. Kindest regards, Olivier On 23/02/2018 13:15, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com><mailto:michele@blacknight.com> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd><mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
Dear all, There are two aspects here that I'd try to keep separate: 1) The procedural issue. We should not use an extra-ICANN platform for trying to exert influence on an issue for which there is an intra-ICANN one available - in fact, the budget is right now open for public comments. 2) The substantive issue. After many years of expansion, ICANN is becoming more like a "normal" institutional environment where money is tight and priorities need to be discussed and set. This is relatively new to all of us. Where the necessary cuts will fall should be based on a new type of discussion of priorities. Best, Yrjö ________________________________ From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 7:15 PM To: Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond; Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Olivier Sorry if I wasn’t clear – I wasn’t referring solely to “community” people being sent to events – I was also referring albeit obliquely at both staff and board. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ Domains & Hosting News, Offers and more - Blacknight Blog<https://blacknight.blog/> blacknight.blog News, special offers and more from hosting provider and domain registrar Blacknight https://ceo.hosting/ [https://ceo.hosting/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/man-glasses-dollar-signs-100x100.jpg]<https://ceo.hosting/> Hosting Thoughts & Reflections - Sharing thoughts ...<https://ceo.hosting/> ceo.hosting It’s only fair to share… Fiscal prudence is something that most business owners learn fairly quickly. Either you learn to spend (and invest) your money wisely or ... Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Olivier Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 18:13 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Dear Michele, in a bit of a rush at present, but re: why so many people funded to come to ICANN meetings, it is all part of building a balanced multistakeholder community. In fact some of the people that were funded to come were also from governments and they brought back their experience to their government, which had positive political implications back there. These implications cannot be calculated by exact science, like a return on investment. But they have had an impact in other fora such as on the ITU discussions, OECD, and government stances out there. As for funding people to go to non-ICANN events, there are two reasons: 1. the people that go to these non-ICANN events are the community face of ICANN and have managed to improve ICANN's image greatly through engaging with the rest of the world 2. the people that have gone to these non-ICANN events have managed to bring more people in the ICANN processes that ended up in leadership positions. In fact with the GDPR we have a case in point about why ICANN needs to engage out there: whilst GDPR development was going on in Brussels for several years, nobody at ICANN listened when community members pointed out that it was important to be not only aware but engage in the discussions. ICANN's failure to address this because it was too busy looking at its own self image of IANA Stewardship Transition & ICANN Accountability, has now put it in front of a serious problem, namely that it is completely unprepared a few months from enforcement. So OK now we're working on GDPR, but what else is out there, waiting to bite us? There is a continuum of more stuff coming our way and having community members out there as both lookouts and emissaries is way cheaper than having a department of over 50 staff working on this. In fact, supporting the community to perform this task is a very economical way to do it as you don't need to pay them salaries. But I do agree, though, that there should be improvements to the accountability of who is sent out there, with "bad actors", those who are using the system for tourism, being blacklisted so they do not continue to abuse the system. Kindest regards, Olivier On 23/02/2018 13:15, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought. I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ Blacknight<https://www.blacknight.com/> www.blacknight.com European Web hosting based in Ireland from Blacknight. Professional Linux and Windows website hosting packages with a simple, easy-to-use control panel. Widest range ... https://blacknight.blog/ Domains & Hosting News, Offers and more - Blacknight Blog<https://blacknight.blog/> blacknight.blog News, special offers and more from hosting provider and domain registrar Blacknight https://ceo.hosting/ [https://ceo.hosting/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/man-glasses-dollar-signs-100x100.jpg]<https://ceo.hosting/> Hosting Thoughts & Reflections - Sharing thoughts ...<https://ceo.hosting/> ceo.hosting It’s only fair to share… Fiscal prudence is something that most business owners learn fairly quickly. Either you learn to spend (and invest) your money wisely or ... Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com><mailto:michele@blacknight.com> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd><mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Michele, I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities. This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain. Cheers, Roberto On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Roberto There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic. There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others. Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”. Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case. Cheers, Roberto On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd<mailto:svg@milathan.ltd>> wrote: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
Wise spoken Yrjö! + 100 Best Sandra (Note: This message was sent from my iPhone - I apologise for any misspelling.)
Am 23.02.2018 um 20:16 schrieb Yrjö Länsipuro <yrjo_lansipuro@hotmail.com>:
Dear all,
There are two aspects here that I'd try to keep separate:
1) The procedural issue. We should not use an extra-ICANN platform for trying to exert influence on an issue for which there is an intra-ICANN one available - in fact, the budget is right now open for public comments.
2) The substantive issue. After many years of expansion, ICANN is becoming more like a "normal" institutional environment where money is tight and priorities need to be discussed and set. This is relatively new to all of us. Where the necessary cuts will fall should be based on a new type of discussion of priorities.
Best,
Yrjö
From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2018 7:15 PM To: Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond; Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Olivier
Sorry if I wasn’t clear – I wasn’t referring solely to “community” people being sent to events – I was also referring albeit obliquely at both staff and board.
Regards
Michele
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From: Olivier Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 18:13 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com>, Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Dear Michele,
in a bit of a rush at present, but re: why so many people funded to come to ICANN meetings, it is all part of building a balanced multistakeholder community. In fact some of the people that were funded to come were also from governments and they brought back their experience to their government, which had positive political implications back there. These implications cannot be calculated by exact science, like a return on investment. But they have had an impact in other fora such as on the ITU discussions, OECD, and government stances out there. As for funding people to go to non-ICANN events, there are two reasons: 1. the people that go to these non-ICANN events are the community face of ICANN and have managed to improve ICANN's image greatly through engaging with the rest of the world 2. the people that have gone to these non-ICANN events have managed to bring more people in the ICANN processes that ended up in leadership positions.
In fact with the GDPR we have a case in point about why ICANN needs to engage out there: whilst GDPR development was going on in Brussels for several years, nobody at ICANN listened when community members pointed out that it was important to be not only aware but engage in the discussions. ICANN's failure to address this because it was too busy looking at its own self image of IANA Stewardship Transition & ICANN Accountability, has now put it in front of a serious problem, namely that it is completely unprepared a few months from enforcement. So OK now we're working on GDPR, but what else is out there, waiting to bite us? There is a continuum of more stuff coming our way and having community members out there as both lookouts and emissaries is way cheaper than having a department of over 50 staff working on this. In fact, supporting the community to perform this task is a very economical way to do it as you don't need to pay them salaries.
But I do agree, though, that there should be improvements to the accountability of who is sent out there, with "bad actors", those who are using the system for tourism, being blacklisted so they do not continue to abuse the system.
Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 23/02/2018 13:15, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the investment has brought.
I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend non-ICANN events
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Blacknight Solutions
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Blacknight www.blacknight.com European Web hosting based in Ireland from Blacknight. Professional Linux and Windows website hosting packages with a simple, easy-to-use control panel. Widest range ... https://blacknight.blog/
Domains & Hosting News, Offers and more - Blacknight Blog blacknight.blog News, special offers and more from hosting provider and domain registrar Blacknight https://ceo.hosting/
Hosting Thoughts & Reflections - Sharing thoughts ... ceo.hosting It’s only fair to share… Fiscal prudence is something that most business owners learn fairly quickly. Either you learn to spend (and invest) your money wisely or ... Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
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From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56 To: Michele Neylon <michele@blacknight.com> Cc: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Michele,
I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities.
This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving arguments, then we cannot complain.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Roberto
There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a load of different programmes but has very little data to measure the ROI / KPIs etc
If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does not have.
Regards
Michele
--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
Ireland Company No.: 370845
From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07 To: S Van Gelder <svg@milathan.ltd> Cc: Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that is affected more than others.
Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes, definitively”.
Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case.
Cheers,
Roberto
On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd> wrote:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition onchange.org, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
--
Andrey Kolesnikov
RIPN.NET
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Dear all, I have to say that I am personally going to sign it, as I am part of ICANN fellows. I am not sure that EURALO should sign this petition, but should have position if and what should be cut. I do not know how many of You knows that first fellow jus become member of ICANN board, on ICANN conference in Copenhagen most of discussions, questions at open meetings with ICANN board were created by ICANN fellows. On my first ICANN conference in Nairobi, there were lot of criticisms among experienced ICANN participants. So new energy comes from fellows. ALAC, EURALO and GNSO were trying to find new members among fellows, where are they (or we) going to find supporters now? On the other hand I am not surprised that this cut has happened. On the conference in Johannesburg I made a question to ICANN staff (do not remember name but responsible person for creating budget plan for 2017.), how many income comes from endusers. Nobody answered, after a session one of ICANN registrar owner told me “ Zero”, it is the same answer like all registrars are talking around the world, whole income to registries comes from registrars. Until this opinion is valid and main, situation will be the same. And nobody did not request to get the answer, although the first statement You can hear on ICANN meeting is that everybody has right to make question and has to get the answer. ALAC and RALOs are established and works in according with ICANN policies, until internet users do not have independent organization, the situation will be the same. So, if ICANN will be the organization of registries and registrars, fellows and endusers will never have decent position there in spite of fact that one fellow become the member of ICANN board. ICANN will be corporation, just like “C” stand in the shortage. So before I register some domain name, I am going to calculate a lot if I really need it as registrars do not respect me at all. And I am not surprise if domain names business continue to slow down. Kind regards Nenad From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 22:15 To: Andrei Kolesnikov; Discussion for At-Large Europe; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org <http://change.org/> , because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Hello all, I agree budget cuts hurt, but I can well understand it's something ICANN has to do. In my opinion fellowship program should be part of those cuts too. ICANN has very important core functions to run, so if ICANN has to reduce costs, I'd prefer cutting fellowship costs more than cutting for example IANA related costs. In general, fellowship program is good (as long as ICANN can afford having it), but it's not perfect. Most of the program participants are motivated and active in ICANN meetings, but not all of them. For example, during the Hyderabad meeting I took a day off after the ccNSO meeting days (which was my main interest) and had a full-day city sightseeing. And I shared the tour with two persons that were there under the fellowship program - chosen by their cultural background. While talking to them during the day it became obvious that they were happy with free traveling to India, but they couldn't care less about the meeting itself. So I hope that possible budget cuts would force ICANN to re-evaluate selection criterias to fellowship program more carefully dropping off those not so motivated participants. I prefer not to sign the petition. Juhani Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan kirjoitti 2018-02-21 23:15:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let's produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition on change.org [1], because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
: Olivier Crepin-Leblond [2] Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... [3]
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss [4]
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org [5]
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET [6] _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org Links: ------ [1] http://change.org/ [2] https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond [3] https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... [4] https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss [5] http://www.euralo.org/ [6] http://ripn.net/
Hi Juhani, I agree with You, but the same situation or similar is with the other programs. This means that selection is problem, as far as I know more than 600 candidates submit request on every invitation call, and then arise issue about age, gender, countries etc. etc. I would prefer if RALOs can have more influence on this process, but it means in general stronger roles of RALOs, unfortunately it is not the case including cutting CROPP program that help me to attend EURODIG. We have scene where income in ICANN comes from gNSO, than from ccNSO, registrars and generally speaking, they (all mentioned groups) do not see endusers and in the future instead of community that participate in internet governance (whatever it means) there will be some other structure without endusers, couple of billions people that indirectly finance all these institutions. Pozdrav/regards Nenad From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Juhani Juselius Sent: Thursday, 22 February, 2018 08:49 To: Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd> Discussion for At-Large Europe Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Hello all, I agree budget cuts hurt, but I can well understand it's something ICANN has to do. In my opinion fellowship program should be part of those cuts too. ICANN has very important core functions to run, so if ICANN has to reduce costs, I'd prefer cutting fellowship costs more than cutting for example IANA related costs. In general, fellowship program is good (as long as ICANN can afford having it), but it's not perfect. Most of the program participants are motivated and active in ICANN meetings, but not all of them. For example, during the Hyderabad meeting I took a day off after the ccNSO meeting days (which was my main interest) and had a full-day city sightseeing. And I shared the tour with two persons that were there under the fellowship program - chosen by their cultural background. While talking to them during the day it became obvious that they were happy with free traveling to India, but they couldn't care less about the meeting itself. So I hope that possible budget cuts would force ICANN to re-evaluate selection criterias to fellowship program more carefully dropping off those not so motivated participants. I prefer not to sign the petition. Juhani Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan kirjoitti 2018-02-21 23:15: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let's produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org <http://change.org/> , because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Hello, for reasons already put forward in this thread, I think - EURALO should continue its approach with specific requests, rather than a petition; - we should not use an external platform such as change.org . Jean-Jacques. Le 22 février 2018 à 10:14:24, Nenad Marinkovic (nenad@marinkovic.rs) a écrit: Hi Juhani, I agree with You, but the same situation or similar is with the other programs. This means that selection is problem, as far as I know more than 600 candidates submit request on every invitation call, and then arise issue about age, gender, countries etc. etc. I would prefer if RALOs can have more influence on this process, but it means in general stronger roles of RALOs, unfortunately it is not the case including cutting CROPP program that help me to attend EURODIG. We have scene where income in ICANN comes from gNSO, than from ccNSO, registrars and generally speaking, they (all mentioned groups) do not see endusers and in the future instead of community that participate in internet governance (whatever it means) there will be some other structure without endusers, couple of billions people that indirectly finance all these institutions. Pozdrav/regards Nenad From: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Juhani Juselius Sent: Thursday, 22 February, 2018 08:49 To: Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd> Discussion for At-Large Europe Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Hello all, I agree budget cuts hurt, but I can well understand it's something ICANN has to do. In my opinion fellowship program should be part of those cuts too. ICANN has very important core functions to run, so if ICANN has to reduce costs, I'd prefer cutting fellowship costs more than cutting for example IANA related costs. In general, fellowship program is good (as long as ICANN can afford having it), but it's not perfect. Most of the program participants are motivated and active in ICANN meetings, but not all of them. For example, during the Hyderabad meeting I took a day off after the ccNSO meeting days (which was my main interest) and had a full-day city sightseeing. And I shared the tour with two persons that were there under the fellowship program - chosen by their cultural background. While talking to them during the day it became obvious that they were happy with free traveling to India, but they couldn't care less about the meeting itself. So I hope that possible budget cuts would force ICANN to re-evaluate selection criterias to fellowship program more carefully dropping off those not so motivated participants. I prefer not to sign the petition. Juhani Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan kirjoitti 2018-02-21 23:15: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let's produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Juhani, You raise a good point about the sightseeing vs attending the meeting, I can tell similar experiences in the early days of ALAC. However, I would like to avoid throwing away the baby with the dirty water. I believe that to cancel a programme that has produced tangible benefits interns of bringing new people to ICANN that are now active participants just because there is some abuse is not the right answer. However, I wonder whether the real reason for this cut is something that has nothing to do with abuse, but is simply the sign that Fadi’s Global Equal Multi-Stakeholder approach is definitively gone and we are back to a situation in which some stakeholders are more equal than others. Cheers, Roberto On 22.02.2018, at 08:49, Juhani Juselius <juhani@juselius.fi<mailto:juhani@juselius.fi>> wrote: Hello all, I agree budget cuts hurt, but I can well understand it's something ICANN has to do. In my opinion fellowship program should be part of those cuts too. ICANN has very important core functions to run, so if ICANN has to reduce costs, I'd prefer cutting fellowship costs more than cutting for example IANA related costs. In general, fellowship program is good (as long as ICANN can afford having it), but it's not perfect. Most of the program participants are motivated and active in ICANN meetings, but not all of them. For example, during the Hyderabad meeting I took a day off after the ccNSO meeting days (which was my main interest) and had a full-day city sightseeing. And I shared the tour with two persons that were there under the fellowship program - chosen by their cultural background. While talking to them during the day it became obvious that they were happy with free traveling to India, but they couldn't care less about the meeting itself. So I hope that possible budget cuts would force ICANN to re-evaluate selection criterias to fellowship program more carefully dropping off those not so motivated participants. I prefer not to sign the petition. Juhani Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan kirjoitti 2018-02-21 23:15: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let's produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
NB. I draw your attention to the personnel cut in Eastern Europe region FY2019. 2 FTE becomes 1 FTE. It means moving toward US-centric corporation from regional perspective. I would cut 2 SG&A US lawyers and hire 12 regional managers as COR and still cut the expense. --andrei 2018-02-22 14:03 GMT+03:00 Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>:
Juhani, You raise a good point about the sightseeing vs attending the meeting, I can tell similar experiences in the early days of ALAC. However, I would like to avoid throwing away the baby with the dirty water. I believe that to cancel a programme that has produced tangible benefits interns of bringing new people to ICANN that are now active participants just because there is some abuse is not the right answer. However, I wonder whether the real reason for this cut is something that has nothing to do with abuse, but is simply the sign that Fadi’s Global Equal Multi-Stakeholder approach is definitively gone and we are back to a situation in which some stakeholders are more equal than others. Cheers, Roberto
On 22.02.2018, at 08:49, Juhani Juselius <juhani@juselius.fi> wrote:
Hello all,
I agree budget cuts hurt, but I can well understand it's something ICANN has to do.
In my opinion fellowship program should be part of those cuts too. ICANN has very important core functions to run, so if ICANN has to reduce costs, I'd prefer cutting fellowship costs more than cutting for example IANA related costs.
In general, fellowship program is good (as long as ICANN can afford having it), but it's not perfect. Most of the program participants are motivated and active in ICANN meetings, but not all of them. For example, during the Hyderabad meeting I took a day off after the ccNSO meeting days (which was my main interest) and had a full-day city sightseeing. And I shared the tour with two persons that were there under the fellowship program - chosen by their cultural background. While talking to them during the day it became obvious that they were happy with free traveling to India, but they couldn't care less about the meeting itself. So I hope that possible budget cuts would force ICANN to re-evaluate selection criterias to fellowship program more carefully dropping off those not so motivated participants.
I prefer not to sign the petition.
Juhani
Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan kirjoitti 2018-02-21 23:15:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let's produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>:
Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts- and-save-the-fellowship-program
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/>
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET
Dear all, Oksana thank you for raising this issue - it is an essential point to discuss in my view and also to Olivier for emphasising this with us again. I totally agree with most of the points of the majority of the discussion participants. Nevertheless, I think that the way ICANN did it was kind of rough - just saying cutting half of it and that’s it with no really proper strategical plan or may I missed something? In terms of the Fellow program there are of course a lot of points which can be improved in my opinion if you compare the obligations with the NextGen program e.g. the selection process, obligatory attendance and participation at the whole conference sessions. NextGenners also have to hold a short presentation of an idea which is connected to IG/ICANN and they have to do some pre work to be prepared for the conference to take as much out of it as possible. Of course the Fellow program has a different approach but ICANN could still bound people with more obligations. Moreover, I think almost 60 people at every meeting are way too much to efficiently work with them. Finally, an end-report would be very helpful for outreach and feedback/improvement assessment. I have not signed the petition even though if I am thinking that it is an important thing also to keep the diversity upright and getting new people involved which do not have the money for travelling but this is not the right way and platform for it. Regarding the CROPP I just want to say that in my case I was very thankful to get one of these slots to participate at the last EuroDIG. Especially, as newcomer it was very good to see all the important European stakeholders and get deeper involved. Cuts of this would at least mean less attendance of a miscellaneous range of people at the meetings. This does not directly mean that the result is worse but it would mean more exclusiveness…the question is more what is ICANN’s goal and in which direction do they want to go with this development? I totally agree with Andrei’s assessment that you can see in the new budget this US-centric approach again. Have a nice day, Matthias _________________________ Ing. Matthias Markus Hudobnik <mailto:matthias@hudobnik.at> matthias@hudobnik.at <http://www.hudobnik.at/> http://www.hudobnik.at Von: EURO-Discuss [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Andrei Kolesnikov Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Februar 2018 14:16 An: Roberto Gaetano Cc: EURALO Discuss Betreff: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? NB. I draw your attention to the personnel cut in Eastern Europe region FY2019. 2 FTE becomes 1 FTE. It means moving toward US-centric corporation from regional perspective. I would cut 2 SG&A US lawyers and hire 12 regional managers as COR and still cut the expense. --andrei 2018-02-22 14:03 GMT+03:00 Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>: Juhani, You raise a good point about the sightseeing vs attending the meeting, I can tell similar experiences in the early days of ALAC. However, I would like to avoid throwing away the baby with the dirty water. I believe that to cancel a programme that has produced tangible benefits interns of bringing new people to ICANN that are now active participants just because there is some abuse is not the right answer. However, I wonder whether the real reason for this cut is something that has nothing to do with abuse, but is simply the sign that Fadi’s Global Equal Multi-Stakeholder approach is definitively gone and we are back to a situation in which some stakeholders are more equal than others. Cheers, Roberto On 22.02.2018, at 08:49, Juhani Juselius <juhani@juselius.fi> wrote: Hello all, I agree budget cuts hurt, but I can well understand it's something ICANN has to do. In my opinion fellowship program should be part of those cuts too. ICANN has very important core functions to run, so if ICANN has to reduce costs, I'd prefer cutting fellowship costs more than cutting for example IANA related costs. In general, fellowship program is good (as long as ICANN can afford having it), but it's not perfect. Most of the program participants are motivated and active in ICANN meetings, but not all of them. For example, during the Hyderabad meeting I took a day off after the ccNSO meeting days (which was my main interest) and had a full-day city sightseeing. And I shared the tour with two persons that were there under the fellowship program - chosen by their cultural background. While talking to them during the day it became obvious that they were happy with free traveling to India, but they couldn't care less about the meeting itself. So I hope that possible budget cuts would force ICANN to re-evaluate selection criterias to fellowship program more carefully dropping off those not so motivated participants. I prefer not to sign the petition. Juhani Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan kirjoitti 2018-02-21 23:15: Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let's produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org <http://change.org/> , because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond <https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET <http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET
Fyi I agree with Andrei’s statement below, and Stéphane’s reasoning makes sense to me too. So with regard to whether EURALO should sign the petition: no. -Bastiaan
On 21 Feb 2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd> wrote:
Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us.
Thanks,
Stéphane
On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru> wrote:
I'm against signing any petition on change.org, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>: Dear colleagues,
on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded.
:
Olivier Crepin-Leblond Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination.
As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes.
You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello...
The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences?
At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition?
Kindest regards,
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
-- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Agree 100% with Stephane -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ https://blacknight.blog/ https://ceo.hosting/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265, Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: EURO-Discuss <euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan <svg@milathan.ltd> Date: Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 22:16 To: Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru>, Euralo <euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Olivier Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you? Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a petition would not only look political, it would look immature. If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion channels open to us. Thanks, Stéphane On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov <andrei@rol.ru<mailto:andrei@rol.ru>> wrote: I'm against signing any petition on change.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds political. If community is against the cut, this must be articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>>: Dear colleagues, on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following Action Item was recorded. : Olivier Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the petition against reduction of the ICANN fellowship as well as to write an EURALO statement against the CROP elimination. As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to reduction. This will mean that some programmes are frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP) which was confirmed into the main budget as it was seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives are way larger than for other programmes. You might has seen a petition out there, entitled "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship Program!" On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition: https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fello... The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now yours truly) being active in the organisation of EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf help with other potential occurences? At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the decision is in your hands, the EURALO members. Should EURALO sign the petition? Should your ALS sign the petition? Kindest regards, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond EURALO Chair _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/> -- Andrey Kolesnikov RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/> _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
participants (14)
-
Andrei Kolesnikov -
Bastiaan Goslings -
cw＠christopherwilkinson.eu -
Jean-Jacques Subrenat -
Juhani Juselius -
Matthias Markus Hudobnik -
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Nenad Marinkovic -
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond -
Roberto Gaetano -
sandra hoferichter -
Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan -
Wilkinson -
Yrjö Länsipuro