Hi Vittorio, Vittorio Bertola wrote Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:01: (...)

I have tried to find the proposed "resolution on individual users participation" and I really couldn't find it, neither in the attachments nor online at the URL you mentioned. So is it available anywhere?

Not yet, I will prepare a first draft for the Board meeting on Saturday motning in Paris.

In any case, this is a fundamental issue, on which there was a lot of controversy in Lisbon last year, and I do not think that it can be discussed and determined so quickly. I think that we need to have a frank discussion among all the ALSes and, given that the agenda is packed, it really cannot happen on Saturday in Paris. Also there has been zero discussion on this in the EURALO Board (in fact there was only one message to the Board list in the last two weeks) and no discussion on this list either.

We will discuss this point/motion from you with the Board -- and it's on the Board to decide whether we prepare a draft Resulution for the GA -- OR just submit the point for futher discussions at EURALO, as you suggested, and to postpone a decission on it to a later stage/GA.

I must confess that I don't understand what is the intention about that resolution, but in any case I would really find it inappropriate for the GA to take any deliberation on this without adequate public discussion among all the ALSes and possibly even public comment by any interested individual. Instead, if we want to open the discussion, we could try to set aside some time in Paris from Sunday onwards, to have a 1-2 hour meeting among all ALSes on this specific matter.

This point is not realy "new" but was already discussed in length before the creation of EURALO in Lisbon. Several concerns have been expressed in the meantime that *individuals" don't have the same participation rights at EURALO compared with ALSes. And where there is a substantial concern there should be a discussion on it -- according to my sense of democracy ;-) Did I understand you properly, Vittorio, you are not against discussing this issue at the Board and the GA but not to take an immediate decision in Paris? Regards, Wolf comunica-ch phone +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig www.comunica-ch.net Digitale Allemd http://blog.allmend.ch - EURALO https://st.icann.org/euralo/index.cgi?euralo_icann_at_large_europe

We should wait and see how the issue of individual membership is discussed on Saturdaqy. If there is consensus and if we have all ALS in the room, we certainly can decide. The socvereignty and decision making power is with the GA. It is good when the EURALO Baord discusses such issues, but if he failed and the GA has a consensus then we can also make a decision. If not we need more discussion both in the Baord and among the ALS. As you know my position did not change sind 1998. Individuals are the core group of AL and need a voice and a vote in the whole ICANN process. BTW, just FYI, the OECD Ministerial Meeting in Seoul here (I am still in Korea where we had an post OECD IG Symposium at the National Seoul University with Mangyong Koon and where we also discussed At Large issues) ist now dealing with the proposal to establish a Civil Society Advisory Council. ICANN (and WSIS/WGIG/IGF) can be certainly proud that it has inspired the OECD and paved the way for such a move which would have been unthinkable ten years ago when OECD had its last Internet related Ministerial meeting in Ottawa. But ICANN should remain a frontrunner and not let the dynamics go to other bodies. Best regards and see you on Saturday wolfgang ________________________________ From: euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org 이(가) 다음 사람 대신 보냄 Vittorio Bertola Sent: 2008-06-19 (목) 오후 7:57 To: Discussion for At-Large Europe Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] EURALO General Assembly at the 32nd International Public ICANN Paris Conference in Paris Wolf Ludwig ha scritto:

Did I understand you properly, Vittorio, you are not against discussing this issue at the Board and the GA but not to take an immediate decision in Paris?

Yes, or better: I think it's important to discuss this, it was a mandate given by the last GA to the new Board and we've not done much (to be kind) about it, and personally I am in favour of finding a way to let individuals participate directly in the EURALO. At the same time, I don't see time in the GA schedule to have a meaningful discussion on this point, let alone to come to a conclusion. This is why I am against taking immediate decisions, and I would rather foster a discussion among all ALSes and other interested parties, which could happen in Paris if we could set aside enough time (I think you really need at least one hour, possibly more) and also online on the mailing list. -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <-------- _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.i... Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org <http://www.euralo.org/>

At 20:57 19/06/2008, Dominik Filipp wrote:

A ridiculous, upside down logic. I would personally recommend that At-Large refuse the draft document as a whole due to a false logic it is based upon.

I am not sure this is ridiculous: this is a very good account of the way ICANN decisions are taken. As consensuses prepared by the Staff: france@large observed it is also the case at ALAC (through its accreditation process). Now, the question is: "is it good for the Community that the BoD acts as an audit and a wisepeople council rather than a leader?". There are cons and pros. jfc