Re: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
Nigel With all due respect I'd have to disagree. ICANN was told repeatedly by EU based registrars that the terminology in the contract would put us in breach of EU and national law. Yet ICANN insisted on putting the terminology into the contract. ICANN has repeatedly refused to listen to what Article 29 have been saying. And ICANN has also not published all of the correspondence on this subject - I found the most recent letter on the EU site, not the ICANN site. If the retention period was more in harmony with the core tenets of the directive, which *has* been transposed into national law almost verbatim, then there wouldn't be an issue. The situation at present is, for lack of a better word, unacceptable, or more simply put, crazy. Only 1 EU based registrar has been granted even a preliminary waiver. If only 1 registrar had applied for one, then the situation would be understandable, but that is not the case. That a company in an EU member state needs to ask a California Corporation permission to comply with local law and that the same Corporation would be so slow and awkward in its dealing with the companies is almost laughable. As of today multiple new TLDs are entering the root and going live. Yet many registrars in the EU cannot offer these new extensions. So ICANN is effectively limiting our ability to trade. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Hickson [mailto:nigel.hickson@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:31 PM To: jjs; Michele Neylon - Blacknight; euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again JJ and colleagues Good evening; the fact (as noted) that 1995 EU Directive has been implemented in such varied ways (essentially one was implementing EU principles in national legislation) is a fact in the challenge of having one specific "carve out". The proposed Regulation (on Data Protection) being negotiated in Brussels could make a difference on this (as a Regulation has direct effect across EU-28). Best Nigel On 1/29/14 10:52 AM, "jjs" <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
@Michele +1. It would indeed be a fallacy to consider that each Member State of the EU is free to interpret EU Directives to suit its own purposes.
For colleagues from horizons other than the EU, a small footnote may be useful: a Directive is not unilaterally imposed by the European Commission, but has been trashed out collectively, and thoroughly, with all the Member States. The "transposition" into national legislation is required for a Directive to have legal effect in that country, but is by no means open to alteration or corruption, once it has been agreed upon by all 28 Member States.
The apparent ambiguity in parts of the English-language mass media comes from the fact that some of them are owned by individuals who are not citizens of an EU Member State (e.g. R. Murdoch, originally an Australian, assumed US citizenship in 1985) and/or pursue their own agendas.
Jean-Jacques.
-------- Message d'origine -------- De : Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Date : 29/01/2014 17:09 (GMT+08:00) A : euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Objet : [EURO-Discuss] Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
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Again, @Michele +1. Regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele Neylon - Blacknight" <michele@blacknight.com> To: "Nigel Hickson" <nigel.hickson@icann.org>, "jjs" <jjs@dyalog.net>, euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Sent: Jeudi 30 Janvier 2014 05:42:36 Subject: RE: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again Nigel With all due respect I'd have to disagree. ICANN was told repeatedly by EU based registrars that the terminology in the contract would put us in breach of EU and national law. Yet ICANN insisted on putting the terminology into the contract. ICANN has repeatedly refused to listen to what Article 29 have been saying. And ICANN has also not published all of the correspondence on this subject - I found the most recent letter on the EU site, not the ICANN site. If the retention period was more in harmony with the core tenets of the directive, which *has* been transposed into national law almost verbatim, then there wouldn't be an issue. The situation at present is, for lack of a better word, unacceptable, or more simply put, crazy. Only 1 EU based registrar has been granted even a preliminary waiver. If only 1 registrar had applied for one, then the situation would be understandable, but that is not the case. That a company in an EU member state needs to ask a California Corporation permission to comply with local law and that the same Corporation would be so slow and awkward in its dealing with the companies is almost laughable. As of today multiple new TLDs are entering the root and going live. Yet many registrars in the EU cannot offer these new extensions. So ICANN is effectively limiting our ability to trade. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Hickson [mailto:nigel.hickson@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:31 PM To: jjs; Michele Neylon - Blacknight; euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again JJ and colleagues Good evening; the fact (as noted) that 1995 EU Directive has been implemented in such varied ways (essentially one was implementing EU principles in national legislation) is a fact in the challenge of having one specific "carve out". The proposed Regulation (on Data Protection) being negotiated in Brussels could make a difference on this (as a Regulation has direct effect across EU-28). Best Nigel On 1/29/14 10:52 AM, "jjs" <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
@Michele +1. It would indeed be a fallacy to consider that each Member State of the EU is free to interpret EU Directives to suit its own purposes.
For colleagues from horizons other than the EU, a small footnote may be useful: a Directive is not unilaterally imposed by the European Commission, but has been trashed out collectively, and thoroughly, with all the Member States. The "transposition" into national legislation is required for a Directive to have legal effect in that country, but is by no means open to alteration or corruption, once it has been agreed upon by all 28 Member States.
The apparent ambiguity in parts of the English-language mass media comes from the fact that some of them are owned by individuals who are not citizens of an EU Member State (e.g. R. Murdoch, originally an Australian, assumed US citizenship in 1985) and/or pursue their own agendas.
Jean-Jacques.
-------- Message d'origine -------- De : Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Date : 29/01/2014 17:09 (GMT+08:00) A : euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Objet : [EURO-Discuss] Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
Hi I obviously have to agree with Michele, since NCUC wrote to Article 29 a couple years ago, triggering their response to the board http://www.ncuc.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/NCUCPrivacyLetter28062012.pdf Bill On Jan 29, 2014, at 10:42 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> wrote:
Nigel
With all due respect I'd have to disagree.
ICANN was told repeatedly by EU based registrars that the terminology in the contract would put us in breach of EU and national law. Yet ICANN insisted on putting the terminology into the contract. ICANN has repeatedly refused to listen to what Article 29 have been saying. And ICANN has also not published all of the correspondence on this subject - I found the most recent letter on the EU site, not the ICANN site.
If the retention period was more in harmony with the core tenets of the directive, which *has* been transposed into national law almost verbatim, then there wouldn't be an issue.
The situation at present is, for lack of a better word, unacceptable, or more simply put, crazy.
Only 1 EU based registrar has been granted even a preliminary waiver. If only 1 registrar had applied for one, then the situation would be understandable, but that is not the case.
That a company in an EU member state needs to ask a California Corporation permission to comply with local law and that the same Corporation would be so slow and awkward in its dealing with the companies is almost laughable.
As of today multiple new TLDs are entering the root and going live. Yet many registrars in the EU cannot offer these new extensions.
So ICANN is effectively limiting our ability to trade.
Regards
Michele
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
-----Original Message----- From: Nigel Hickson [mailto:nigel.hickson@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:31 PM To: jjs; Michele Neylon - Blacknight; euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
JJ and colleagues
Good evening; the fact (as noted) that 1995 EU Directive has been implemented in such varied ways (essentially one was implementing EU principles in national legislation) is a fact in the challenge of having one specific "carve out". The proposed Regulation (on Data Protection) being negotiated in Brussels could make a difference on this (as a Regulation has direct effect across EU-28).
Best
Nigel
On 1/29/14 10:52 AM, "jjs" <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
@Michele +1. It would indeed be a fallacy to consider that each Member State of the EU is free to interpret EU Directives to suit its own purposes.
For colleagues from horizons other than the EU, a small footnote may be useful: a Directive is not unilaterally imposed by the European Commission, but has been trashed out collectively, and thoroughly, with all the Member States. The "transposition" into national legislation is required for a Directive to have legal effect in that country, but is by no means open to alteration or corruption, once it has been agreed upon by all 28 Member States.
The apparent ambiguity in parts of the English-language mass media comes from the fact that some of them are owned by individuals who are not citizens of an EU Member State (e.g. R. Murdoch, originally an Australian, assumed US citizenship in 1985) and/or pursue their own agendas.
Jean-Jacques.
-------- Message d'origine -------- De : Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com> Date : 29/01/2014 17:09 (GMT+08:00) A : euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Objet : [EURO-Discuss] Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
-- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
_______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
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*********************************************** William J. Drake International Fellow & Lecturer Media Change & Innovation Division, IPMZ University of Zurich, Switzerland Chair, Noncommercial Users Constituency, ICANN, www.ncuc.org william.drake@uzh.ch (direct), wjdrake@gmail.com (lists), www.williamdrake.org ***********************************************
participants (3)
-
Michele Neylon - Blacknight -
Subrenat, Jean-Jacques -
William Drake