Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Dear Mark .. I was fine with the initial phrase, "at a very late stage", as I understood it exactly as you have described .. But if there's a probability that it may be misunderstood, I'm equally fine with either alternative, "at the end stage" or " in the final stage", as suggested by Marika and yourself .. Frankly, I have to admit I do not see big difference, so I'm flexible .. Kind Regards --Manal From: CARVELL, Mark [mailto:Mark.Carvell@Culture.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:07 PM To: Manal Ismail; Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: RE: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call Dear Marika and Manal Rather than "at the end stage", perhaps " in the final stage" is preferable as the more usual turn of phrase. I thought "at a very late stage" was ok because it effectively conveys a useful emphasis of near finality and "late" has simply the temporal meaning here: as in "they won the match with a late goal" it does not infer a delay or tardiness. Best regards Mark From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Manal Ismail Sent: 29 January 2014 11:10 To: Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call Thanks Marika .. I see your point and personally, I'm fine with replacing 'at a very late stage' by 'at the end' .. For the sake of the charter, I believe the more we stick to facts, rather than opinions, the easier we reach consensus .. Kind Regards --Manal From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:45 PM To: Manal Ismail; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call All, If I may make another suggestion for a change - could we use 'at the end' instead of 'at a very late stage' so that the sentence as reworded by Manal would read 'A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at the end stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process'. Very late stage seems to imply that it should have reached the Board earlier but it didn't, while at the end stage reflects the reality of the current PDP (the Board only gets involved at the end stage of the process). Thanks, Marika From: Manal Ismail <manal@tra.gov.eg> Date: Wednesday 29 January 2014 11:14 To: Mike O'Connor <mike@haven2.com>, "GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org" <GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call Many thanks Mikey, as usual unbeatable speed J .. Dear All .. I've included below the paragraph under debate for ease of reference .. "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO's work. [Only then does the Board request GAC advice, which is an example of a process that appears to need review and improvement.]" The sentence "and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO's work." implies that the GAC does not know about the GNSO's work until the Board seeks advice, which is not the case .. Hence the suggestion I did during the call was: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process." I also believe this serves the purpose: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. The GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process. A timing difficulty arises when the Board then seeks GAC advice because only at that time that the GNSO gets to know about GAC concerns. [A process that appears to need review and improvement.] For me, the sentence between square brackets is not indicated but does not harm the meaning .. Looking forward to hearing what others think .. Kind Regards --Manal From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:03 PM To: GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call here's the version of the draft m This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. ************************************************************************ **** This email and its contents are the property of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please delete it. All DCMS e-mail is recorded and stored for a minimum of 6 months The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes.
I think 'at the end' is appropriate. Regards David On 30 Jan 2014, at 1:14 am, Manal Ismail <manal@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Dear Mark ..
I was fine with the initial phrase, “at a very late stage”, as I understood it exactly as you have described .. But if there’s a probability that it may be misunderstood, I’m equally fine with either alternative, “at the end stage” or “ in the final stage”, as suggested by Marika and yourself .. Frankly, I have to admit I do not see big difference, so I’m flexible ..
Kind Regards --Manal
From: CARVELL, Mark [mailto:Mark.Carvell@Culture.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:07 PM To: Manal Ismail; Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: RE: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Dear Marika and Manal
Rather than “at the end stage”, perhaps “ in the final stage” is preferable as the more usual turn of phrase. I thought “at a very late stage” was ok because it effectively conveys a useful emphasis of near finality and “late” has simply the temporal meaning here: as in "they won the match with a late goal" it does not infer a delay or tardiness.
Best regards
Mark
From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Manal Ismail Sent: 29 January 2014 11:10 To: Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Thanks Marika .. I see your point and personally, I’m fine with replacing 'at a very late stage' by 'at the end' .. For the sake of the charter, I believe the more we stick to facts, rather than opinions, the easier we reach consensus .. Kind Regards --Manal
From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:45 PM To: Manal Ismail; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
All,
If I may make another suggestion for a change – could we use 'at the end' instead of 'at a very late stage' so that the sentence as reworded by Manal would read 'A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at the end stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process'. Very late stage seems to imply that it should have reached the Board earlier but it didn't, while at the end stage reflects the reality of the current PDP (the Board only gets involved at the end stage of the process).
Thanks,
Marika
From: Manal Ismail <manal@tra.gov.eg> Date: Wednesday 29 January 2014 11:14 To: Mike O'Connor <mike@haven2.com>, "GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org" <GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Many thanks Mikey, as usual unbeatable speed J ..
Dear All .. I've included below the paragraph under debate for ease of reference .. "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO’s work. [Only then does the Board request GAC advice, which is an example of a process that appears to need review and improvement.]"
The sentence "and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO’s work." implies that the GAC does not know about the GNSO's work until the Board seeks advice, which is not the case ..
Hence the suggestion I did during the call was: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process."
I also believe this serves the purpose: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. The GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process. A timing difficulty arises when the Board then seeks GAC advice because only at that time that the GNSO gets to know about GAC concerns. [A process that appears to need review and improvement.]
For me, the sentence between square brackets is not indicated but does not harm the meaning .. Looking forward to hearing what others think ..
Kind Regards --Manal
From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:03 PM To: GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
here’s the version of the draft
m
This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. **************************************************************************** This email and its contents are the property of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please delete it. All DCMS e-mail is recorded and stored for a minimum of 6 months The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. _______________________________________________ Gac-gnso-cg mailing list Gac-gnso-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gac-gnso-cg
All, It looks like we went quiet on this in the interim. I suspect that everyone is busy with all sorts of different issues. Given that we are scheduled to meet again tomorrow, it would be really good to conclude the drafting of the charter o sufficient satisfaction of this group so that it can then be shared with the GAC and the Council. Accordingly, please (Mikey?) could we see a final redline and clean copy for formal sign-off tomorrow. Many thanks, Jonathan From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of David Cake Sent: 30 January 2014 03:47 To: Manal Ismail Cc: GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call I think 'at the end' is appropriate. Regards David On 30 Jan 2014, at 1:14 am, Manal Ismail <manal@tra.gov.eg> wrote: Dear Mark .. I was fine with the initial phrase, "at a very late stage", as I understood it exactly as you have described .. But if there's a probability that it may be misunderstood, I'm equally fine with either alternative, "at the end stage" or " in the final stage", as suggested by Marika and yourself .. Frankly, I have to admit I do not see big difference, so I'm flexible .. Kind Regards --Manal From: CARVELL, Mark [ <mailto:Mark.Carvell@Culture.gsi.gov.uk> mailto:Mark.Carvell@Culture.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:07 PM To: Manal Ismail; Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; <mailto:GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: RE: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call Dear Marika and Manal Rather than "at the end stage", perhaps " in the final stage" is preferable as the more usual turn of phrase. I thought "at a very late stage" was ok because it effectively conveys a useful emphasis of near finality and "late" has simply the temporal meaning here: as in "they won the match with a late goal" it does not infer a delay or tardiness. Best regards Mark From: <mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org> gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [ <mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org> mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Manal Ismail Sent: 29 January 2014 11:10 To: Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; <mailto:GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call Thanks Marika .. I see your point and personally, I'm fine with replacing 'at a very late stage' by 'at the end' .. For the sake of the charter, I believe the more we stick to facts, rather than opinions, the easier we reach consensus .. Kind Regards --Manal From: Marika Konings [ <mailto:marika.konings@icann.org> mailto:marika.konings@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:45 PM To: Manal Ismail; Mike O'Connor; <mailto:GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call All, If I may make another suggestion for a change - could we use 'at the end' instead of 'at a very late stage' so that the sentence as reworded by Manal would read 'A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at the end stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process'. Very late stage seems to imply that it should have reached the Board earlier but it didn't, while at the end stage reflects the reality of the current PDP (the Board only gets involved at the end stage of the process). Thanks, Marika From: Manal Ismail < <mailto:manal@tra.gov.eg> manal@tra.gov.eg> Date: Wednesday 29 January 2014 11:14 To: Mike O'Connor < <mailto:mike@haven2.com> mike@haven2.com>, " <mailto:GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org" < <mailto:GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call Many thanks Mikey, as usual unbeatable speed J .. Dear All .. I've included below the paragraph under debate for ease of reference .. "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO's work. [Only then does the Board request GAC advice, which is an example of a process that appears to need review and improvement.]" The sentence "and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO's work." implies that the GAC does not know about the GNSO's work until the Board seeks advice, which is not the case .. Hence the suggestion I did during the call was: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process." I also believe this serves the purpose: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. The GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process. A timing difficulty arises when the Board then seeks GAC advice because only at that time that the GNSO gets to know about GAC concerns. [A process that appears to need review and improvement.] For me, the sentence between square brackets is not indicated but does not harm the meaning .. Looking forward to hearing what others think .. Kind Regards --Manal From: <mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org> gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [ <mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org> mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:03 PM To: <mailto:GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call here's the version of the draft m This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. **************************************************************************** This email and its contents are the property of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please delete it. All DCMS e-mail is recorded and stored for a minimum of 6 months The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. _______________________________________________ Gac-gnso-cg mailing list <mailto:Gac-gnso-cg@icann.org> Gac-gnso-cg@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gac-gnso-cg> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gac-gnso-cg
hi all, sorry about that — i was watching the conversation and it ended quite gently so i forgot to update the charter. here’s the amended draft. i changed “at a very late stage” to “at the final stage” and thus avoided following anybody’s suggestion entirely. :-) mikey On Feb 10, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Jonathan Robinson <jonathan.robinson@ipracon.com> wrote:
All,
It looks like we went quiet on this in the interim. I suspect that everyone is busy with all sorts of different issues.
Given that we are scheduled to meet again tomorrow, it would be really good to conclude the drafting of the charter o sufficient satisfaction of this group so that it can then be shared with the GAC and the Council.
Accordingly, please (Mikey?) could we see a final redline and clean copy for formal sign-off tomorrow.
Many thanks,
Jonathan
From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of David Cake Sent: 30 January 2014 03:47 To: Manal Ismail Cc: GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
I think 'at the end' is appropriate.
Regards
David On 30 Jan 2014, at 1:14 am, Manal Ismail <manal@tra.gov.eg> wrote:
Dear Mark ..
I was fine with the initial phrase, “at a very late stage”, as I understood it exactly as you have described .. But if there’s a probability that it may be misunderstood, I’m equally fine with either alternative, “at the end stage” or “ in the final stage”, as suggested by Marika and yourself .. Frankly, I have to admit I do not see big difference, so I’m flexible ..
Kind Regards --Manal
From: CARVELL, Mark [mailto:Mark.Carvell@Culture.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:07 PM To: Manal Ismail; Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: RE: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Dear Marika and Manal
Rather than “at the end stage”, perhaps “ in the final stage” is preferable as the more usual turn of phrase. I thought “at a very late stage” was ok because it effectively conveys a useful emphasis of near finality and “late” has simply the temporal meaning here: as in "they won the match with a late goal" it does not infer a delay or tardiness.
Best regards
Mark
From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Manal Ismail Sent: 29 January 2014 11:10 To: Marika Konings; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Thanks Marika .. I see your point and personally, I’m fine with replacing 'at a very late stage' by 'at the end' .. For the sake of the charter, I believe the more we stick to facts, rather than opinions, the easier we reach consensus .. Kind Regards --Manal
From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings@icann.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:45 PM To: Manal Ismail; Mike O'Connor; GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
All,
If I may make another suggestion for a change – could we use 'at the end' instead of 'at a very late stage' so that the sentence as reworded by Manal would read 'A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at the end stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process'. Very late stage seems to imply that it should have reached the Board earlier but it didn't, while at the end stage reflects the reality of the current PDP (the Board only gets involved at the end stage of the process).
Thanks,
Marika
From: Manal Ismail <manal@tra.gov.eg> Date: Wednesday 29 January 2014 11:14 To: Mike O'Connor <mike@haven2.com>, "GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org" <GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
Many thanks Mikey, as usual unbeatable speed J ..
Dear All .. I've included below the paragraph under debate for ease of reference .. "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO’s work. [Only then does the Board request GAC advice, which is an example of a process that appears to need review and improvement.]"
The sentence "and it may only be at that time that the GAC turns its attention to the GNSO’s work." implies that the GAC does not know about the GNSO's work until the Board seeks advice, which is not the case ..
Hence the suggestion I did during the call was: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. A timing difficulty arises because the Board seeks GAC advice only when the GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process."
I also believe this serves the purpose: - "The GAC is structured under the ICANN Bylaws to provide advice to the Board. The GNSO PDP reaches the Board at a very late stage of the GNSO policy-deliberation process. A timing difficulty arises when the Board then seeks GAC advice because only at that time that the GNSO gets to know about GAC concerns. [A process that appears to need review and improvement.]
For me, the sentence between square brackets is not indicated but does not harm the meaning .. Looking forward to hearing what others think ..
Kind Regards --Manal
From: gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gac-gnso-cg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike O'Connor Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:03 PM To: GAC-GNSO-CG@icann.org Subject: [Gac-gnso-cg] version 7 of the charter - reflecting the last editson today's call
here’s the version of the draft
m
This email was received from the INTERNET and scanned by the Government Secure Intranet anti-virus service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) In case of problems, please call your organisation's IT Helpdesk. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. **************************************************************************** This email and its contents are the property of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please delete it. All DCMS e-mail is recorded and stored for a minimum of 6 months The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet virus scanning service supplied by Vodafone in partnership with Symantec. (CCTM Certificate Number 2009/09/0052.) On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus free. Communications via the GSi may be automatically logged, monitored and/or recorded for legal purposes. _______________________________________________ Gac-gnso-cg mailing list Gac-gnso-cg@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gac-gnso-cg
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participants (4)
-
David Cake -
Jonathan Robinson -
Manal Ismail -
Mike O'Connor